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RAF over Irish sea question

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  • 01-09-2020 5:47pm
    #1
    Dcully
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 14,683 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Watching flight radar and noticed some RAF jets training out over the Irish sea.
    Just curious how close they come to our airspace?

    pW3TEK1.png


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    #2
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    They don't enter our bit unless they have permission. Every RAF flight is monitored by Mil and Civil radar and gets flagged if it busts our airspace. the last thing you need is a fast moving combat aircraft manouvering hard in the same airspace as civvy aircraft.


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    #3
    Dcully
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 14,683 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dcully


    Thanks for that, do they seek/get permission often?


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    #4
    Jimmy McGill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 287 ✭✭Jimmy McGill


    Dcully wrote: »
    Thanks for that, do they seek/get permission often?

    Yes to both. They seek permission usually to trail Russian bombers that are flying close to our airspace, or to escort a passenger plane that has put out a call for emergency. They wouldn't usually seek permission just for training flights though.


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    #5
    Jimmy McGill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 287 ✭✭Jimmy McGill


    Dcully wrote: »
    Watching flight radar and noticed some RAF jets training out over the Irish sea.
    Just curious how close they come to our airspace?

    pW3TEK1.png

    As I understand it, our airspace starts roughly at the line underneath the word 'press' at the top of the image.


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    #6
    goingnowhere
    Registered Users Posts: 4,132 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Thats the RAF's little playground for training.

    If they file a flightplan and get the approvals, no issue with overflying or dropping by for a cup of tea, Hawk is a trainer, no arms carried bar the ejector seat. The Aer Corp went on a all over Europe training flight with the new PC 12.

    For any search and rescue ops back in the day when the RAF had a world class SAR capability with Nimrods and Seakings overflying was approved, stopping in to refuel etc, mainly since we didn't have the resources ourselves to mount long distance SAR ops.


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    #7
    Psychlops
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    Jimmy McGill wrote: »
    Yes to both. They seek permission usually to trail Russian bombers that are flying close to our airspace, or to escort a passenger plane that has put out a call for emergency. They wouldn't usually seek permission just for training flights though.


    Noted here that the Typhoons dont cross over Ireland.


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    #8
    Psychlops
    Registered Users Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Psychlops


    goingnowhere wrote: »
    Thats the RAF's little playground for training.

    If they file a flightplan and get the approvals, no issue with overflying or dropping by for a cup of tea, Hawk is a trainer, no arms carried bar the ejector seat. The Aer Corp went on a all over Europe training flight with the new PC 12.

    For any search and rescue ops back in the day when the RAF had a world class SAR capability with Nimrods and Seakings overflying was approved, stopping in to refuel etc, mainly since we didn't have the resources ourselves to mount long distance SAR ops.


    Hawk is also a point defence Aircraft & can & is quite often sidewinder equipped, & the newer Hawk T2 is phasing out the older ones. Its "Air Corps" not "Aer Corp".


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    #9
    Stovepipe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,979 ✭✭✭Stovepipe


    I had the pleasure of visiting the radar room at Dublin Airport once and the controller pointed out a Nimrod (which dates this dit)flying exactly down the FIR line from North to South and a couple of Hawks coming out to play from Valley......apart from that, all foreign military visits/transits are filtered through the Dept of Foreign Affairs and the Taoiseach's office and the DoD, as a matter of course.


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    #10
    arccosh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 624 ✭✭✭arccosh


    what happens with the upper airspace over Donegal?

    As that's delegated to Scottish control, does it require the same clearance for military flights going via NIBOG and MIMKU reporting points?

    There has been a number of recorded RAF and USAF flights taking those routes of the non transporter type


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    #11
    EchoIndia
    Registered Users Posts: 2,805 ✭✭✭EchoIndia


    arccosh wrote: »
    what happens with the upper airspace over Donegal?

    As that's delegated to Scottish control, does it require the same clearance for military flights going via NIBOG and MIMKU reporting points?

    There has been a number of recorded RAF and USAF flights taking those routes of the non transporter type


    Legally, Irish sovereign airspace is based on the State's territorial waters, which extend to 12 nautical miles from the maritime shoreline (or from the islands off the coast). I'd have thought that any foreign military flight entering such airspace requires permission, regardless of the ATC arrangements, but others maybe able to give a more definitive answer.


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    #12
    California Dreamer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭California Dreamer


    I think it is safe to assume that us mere mortals do not know about specific arrangements/permissions etc between Irish and UK authorities.


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    #13
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Psychlops wrote: »
    Noted here that the Typhoons dont cross over Ireland.


    They should. At low level with afterburners. And with prior warning so we can all get out and see them. And they should do a little tour on the way back.


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    #14
    Tenger
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,720 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Chris_5339762 wrote: »
    They should. At low level with afterburners. And with prior warning so we can all get out and see them. And they should do a little tour on the way back.

    Do you recall the furore on social media the day that the 2 F-16s buzzed the NFL game at Croke Park?


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    #15
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,867 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Tenger wrote: »
    Do you recall the furore on social media the day that the 2 F-16s buzzed the NFL game at Croke Park?

    I was in Croke Park that day, the flyover was blink and you miss it ... I'd have had a better view anywhere else on DNS!

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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    #16
    Chris_5339762
    Registered Users Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I was standing outside Croke Park under the flight path with my camera, thanks to a tipoff on here!


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    #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    EchoIndia wrote: »
    Legally, Irish sovereign airspace is based on the State's territorial waters, which extend to 12 nautical miles from the maritime shoreline (or from the islands off the coast). I'd have thought that any foreign military flight entering such airspace requires permission, regardless of the ATC arrangements, but others maybe able to give a more definitive answer.

    That’s correct, as I understand it. The reason Russian bombers etc don’t transit between Ireland and the UK, down the Irish Sea, is because it’s narrow enough that the sovereign airspaces touch, and there is no “High Seas Airspace” (I think that’s a great expression!) corridor through. So they fly round Scotland, then down the west coast of Ireland. They are routinely followed by NATO fighter aircraft, which have In Flight Refuelling support from NATO tankers.

    Flying in High Seas Airspace, “State Aircraft” ie the Russian Military etc. operate under “due regard” over the High Seas, as the access of State aircraft to High Seas airspace cannot be restricted.

    Informative document below. You’ll see the Baltic is especially complex.

    https://ifalpa.org/media/2274/2015-eur-ops-bulletin.pdf


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