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Ethiopian Airlines Crash/ B737MAX grounding

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Comments

  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    thebond wrote: »
    Ryanair expected to make annoucement later about new orders of MAX, hopefully they will suspend order until crash investigation completed etc

    A couple of the press in the UK have gone live with articles saying that Ryanair operate the same plane at present and questioning the safety of the planes.

    One them even went with a headline asking whether the plane was safe and who was still flying it, and a picture of a Ryanair 737-800 underneath the headline with the first paragraph claiming they were operating MAX.

    Unfortunately it's no surprise that the usual suspects use the situation to get another dig in but it may well be Ryanair trying to limit any damage by such misleading articles.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭troyzer


    devnull wrote: »
    A couple of the press in the UK have gone live with articles saying that Ryanair operate the same plane at present and questioning the safety of the planes.

    One them even went with a headline asking whether the plane was safe and who was still flying it, and a picture of a Ryanair 737-800 underneath the headline with the first paragraph claiming they were operating MAX.

    Unfortunately it's no surprise that the usual suspects use the situation to get another dig in but it may well be Ryanair trying to limit any damage by such misleading articles.

    Airbus conspiracy.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    troyzer wrote: »
    Airbus conspiracy.

    Obviously with Ryanair recently speaking about Airbus orders being made for Laudamotion and also considering ordering more Boeing planes, then some might say that this whole situation might have the potential to save them a bit of money on future aircraft.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭PCros


    Witnesses who saw the plane come down have said a trail of smoke was coming from the rear of the plane and that debris a luggage fell after the impact...

    "An eyewitness told AFP the plane came down in flames. “The plane was already on fire when it crashed to the ground. The crash caused a big explosion,” Tegegn Dechasa recounted at the site."

    What would this mean?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    O'Leary has confirmed that Ryanair are taking no immediate action.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,198 ✭✭✭troyzer


    devnull wrote: »
    Obviously with Ryanair recently speaking about Airbus orders being made for Laudamotion and also considering ordering more Boeing planes, then some might say that this whole situation might have the potential to save them a bit of money on future aircraft.

    That's the Ryanair way.

    Remember they claimed they were in talks to move to Comac?

    Gas stuff.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    devnull wrote: »
    O'Leary has confirmed that Ryanair are taking no immediate action.

    And why would they as they are not getting their first Max for a month or so. No need to rush to a decision.


  • Posts: 17,381 Isaiah Breezy Pension


    PCros wrote: »
    Witnesses who saw the plane come down have said a trail of smoke was coming from the rear of the plane and that debris a luggage fell after the impact...

    "An eyewitness told AFP the plane came down in flames. “The plane was already on fire when it crashed to the ground. The crash caused a big explosion,” Tegegn Dechasa recounted at the site."

    What would this mean?

    I guess it would mean it's not the same issue as with Lion Air.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,065 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    PCros wrote: »
    Witnesses who saw the plane come down have said a trail of smoke was coming from the rear of the plane and that debris a luggage fell after the impact...

    "An eyewitness told AFP the plane came down in flames. “The plane was already on fire when it crashed to the ground. The crash caused a big explosion,” Tegegn Dechasa recounted at the site."

    What would this mean?

    Eyewitness reports are more often wrong than right.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,585 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    troyzer wrote: »
    That's the Ryanair way.

    Remember they claimed they were in talks to move to Comac?

    Gas stuff.

    Ryanair are the 100% owner of Laudamotion so they effectively already have an Airbus fleet.

    Also the Comac thing was just talks about a partnership for building a 200 seat aircraft sometime in the future.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭PCros


    L1011 wrote: »
    Eyewitness reports are more often wrong than right.

    Really? Appears its come from multiple witnesses though.

    I guess only time will tell.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    And why would they as they are not getting their first Max for a month or so. No need to rush to a decision.

    +1

    Ryanair not planning 'any immediate action' as they await delivery of Boeing jets following fatal Ethiopian crash
    There's a reasonable understanding of what the issue was with the Lion Air. I think Boeing and the FAA are looking at some software modifications, which I understand may or may not have been made. Again, the problem with this is you're into the realm of speculation and we're not speculating

    And then of course you get Tweets like this:

    https://twitter.com/joe_elway/status/1105117584171651072?s=19

    It does seem to be a bit of "Ryanair bashing" to me, people forget about the likes of Norwegian or Southwest and FlyDubai (SE and FD have the two largest fleets?) who actually operate them at present unlike Ryanair.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    PCros wrote: »
    Really? Appears its come from multiple witnesses though.

    I guess only time will tell.

    Air crash witnesses are notoriously unreliable. I read an interesting piece of research on it for those who are interested. A good quote from the opening about sums it up:
    At an airshow in 1952, a supersonic fighter disintegrated in the air causing the death of both crew and 29 spectators (Staff, 1952). Over 100,000 people witnessed the accident. A public appeal was put out for witness accounts and photographs to help solve the mystery, resulting in several thousand letters being collected. Rivas and Bullen (2008) found “many of the accounts are touchingly detailed and well intentioned, but the whole of the vast mail was of little use” (p. 186). The vital clue that led to determination of probable cause was supplied by a cine film. The in-flight breakup happened in less than a second, and almost all the eyewitnesses, including experienced pilots, gave grossly inaccurate accounts when compared to the film record.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭theguzman


    Some of Boeing's own Staff have spoken out and refuse to fly on their own planes, and there was alot of similar stuff before about the 787 which saw Boeing get alot of flack at the time. Luckily there was no fatalities out of the 787 programme.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/61177108/null

    https://www.thelastboeinginspector.com/boeing-workers-agree-only-fly-on-boeing-planes-if-you-have-a-death-wish.html

    I personally would not fly on the Max now and have to fly to New York in early May and was considering Norwegian Shannon to Newburg/Stewart but I'll go to Dublin and catch the A330 service there instead or go United to Newark.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    GM228 wrote: »

    https://twitter.com/joe_elway/status/1105117584171651072?s=19

    It does seem to be a bit of "Ryanair bashing" to me, people forget about the likes of Norwegian or Southwest and FlyDubai (SE and FD have the two largest fleets?) who actually operate them at present unlike Ryanair.

    see my post above
    A couple of the press in the UK have gone live with articles saying that Ryanair operate the same plane at present and questioning the safety of the planes.

    One them even went with a headline asking whether the plane was safe and who was still flying it, and a picture of a Ryanair 737-800 underneath the headline with the first paragraph claiming they were operating MAX.

    Unfortunately it's no surprise that the usual suspects use the situation to get another dig in but it may well be Ryanair trying to limit any damage by such misleading articles.


  • Registered Users Posts: 586 ✭✭✭andymx11


    I’m reading about certain airlines grounding the 737 max- can I ask how the airlines continue to operate without mass disruption?

    China air ground all 96 Max planes - do they get a loan of different planes or simply cancel 1000s of flights until further notice?


  • Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭Bebop


    Boeing have a history of denial in these cases, There were a series of fatal crashes with earlier models of the 737 and investigators blamed the rudder actuator but Boeing refuted the accusations as the body count grew higher, aircrew training on new models of B737 was a factor in the Kegworth crash in 1989


  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭mac_daddy


    Two nearly new 737 max crashed in the past few months something not right with these planes.

    My thoughts are with the poor people on board

    My wife and I are due to fly on a Max 8 this Friday. Very nervous about it now, especially with leaving kids at home!


  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭Tomw86


    Reading through this is shocking.

    Boeing will be in serious sh1t if this causes another crash in the near future. I doubt Ryanair will collect on their order anytime soon.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 455 ✭✭jasper100


    mac_daddy wrote: »
    My wife and I are due to fly on a Max 8 this Friday. Very nervous about it now, especially with leaving kids at home!

    The riskiest part of the journey is the drive to the airport.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Shn99


    Tomw86 wrote: »
    Reading through this is shocking.

    Boeing will be in serious sh1t if this causes another crash in the near future. I doubt Ryanair will collect on their order anytime soon.

    They have said they will take delivery of aircraft as normal, EI-HAT is due next month, 2 in May and 2 in June. From September to March they will take delivery of 50


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    I just saw on the news that the two recorders have been recovered but they may be badly damaged.
    Why is it not possible to transmit the flight data in real time to a ground-based database so that finding the recorders wouldn't be so vital after an accident. It could also be used to quickly locate a plane that went down in a remote area, or at sea or to assist maintenance engineers to resolve any problem which occurred during a flight.
    Each airline could maintain its own database or subcontract to a third party. Once a flight has landed without incident the data for that flight could be wiped.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,353 ✭✭✭Shn99


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    I just saw on the news that the two recorders have been recovered but they may be badly damaged.
    Why is it not possible to transmit the flight data in real time to a ground-based database so that finding the recorders wouldn't be so vital after an accident. It could also be used to quickly locate a plane that went down in a remote area, or at sea or to assist maintenance engineers to resolve any problem which occurred during a flight.
    Each airline could maintain its own database or subcontract to a third party. Once a flight has landed without incident the data for that flight could be wiped.

    $$$


  • Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭mac_daddy


    jasper100 wrote: »
    The riskiest part of the journey is the drive to the airport.

    Yes but when you see 2 out of 350 operating planes have crashed killing all on board it does make you "slightly" nervous!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,577 ✭✭✭circular flexing


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    I just saw on the news that the two recorders have been recovered but they may be badly damaged.
    Why is it not possible to transmit the flight data in real time to a ground-based database so that finding the recorders wouldn't be so vital after an accident. It could also be used to quickly locate a plane that went down in a remote area, or at sea or to assist maintenance engineers to resolve any problem which occurred during a flight.
    Each airline could maintain its own database or subcontract to a third party. Once a flight has landed without incident the data for that flight could be wiped.

    Trying to reliably transmit data from air to ground would be a nightmare (especially the amount of data being generated by modern aircraft), there would simply be too much latency for it to be reliable.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28 Youdunnit


    Trying to reliably transmit data from air to ground would be a nightmare (especially the amount of data being generated by modern aircraft), there would simply be too much latency for it to be reliable.

    Seems bizarre

    Surely they could transmit lumps of data when possible , how much data are we talking about ?

    On a separate note ,is Boeing and Rolls-Royce reputation slowly been fading or is that my imagination?


  • Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭Brennus335


    Roger_007 wrote: »
    I just saw on the news that the two recorders have been recovered but they may be badly damaged.
    Why is it not possible to transmit the flight data in real time to a ground-based database so that finding the recorders wouldn't be so vital after an accident. It could also be used to quickly locate a plane that went down in a remote area, or at sea or to assist maintenance engineers to resolve any problem which occurred during a flight.
    Each airline could maintain its own database or subcontract to a third party. Once a flight has landed without incident the data for that flight could be wiped.

    Because the great unwashed only want to pay €10 to go to Santa Ponsa or some other kip.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    Trying to reliably transmit data from air to ground would be a nightmare (especially the amount of data being generated by modern aircraft), there would simply be too much latency for it to be reliable.

    There wouldn't be such a vast quantity of data. All you would be transmitting is a code for each parameter and a value for that parameter at, let's say, five second intervals. The total amount of data for an average flight wouldn't be as much as would be contained in an average YouTube video.
    Also, you would still retain the 'black' boxes so you wouldn't be totally reliant on the ground-based database. You would not be substituting what you have now with something else, you would be adding to it.


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  • Posts: 17,381 Isaiah Breezy Pension


    It could become more viable if space X get their internet satellite array up.


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