Things I wish I knew 5/10 years ago

Dave 101 · 16-11-2020 4:42pm

Cill94 wrote: »

Something I wish someone had told me when I started training.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CHlBMn7j0KH/

Dan John has his rule of 5 similar to the above

3 will be ok
1 bad
1 great

Which I think are better ratios

bladespin · 16-11-2020 4:58pm

You can't train your way to a 6 pack.
Weights are great and Cardio is horrible and awful and unnecessary

Nutrition is king.
Log everything.

Alf Veedersane · 16-11-2020 5:47pm

Dave 101 wrote: »

Dan John has his rule of 5 similar to the above

3 will be ok
1 bad
1 great

Which I think are better ratios

I think it was H****y who used to refer to the DJ rule of 1 in 5...to expect 1 in every 5 workouts to suck in some way.

iguana · 17-11-2020 11:10am

I must be weird. 99.5% of my exercise is an absolute and utter joy that leaves my body and brain buzzing. A couple of times a year maybe I can't quite get my head into what I'm doing for some reason and then it's just kind of ok. But joy is my constant.

Alf Veedersane · 17-11-2020 11:22am

iguana wrote: »

I must be weird. 99.5% of my exercise is an absolute and utter joy that leaves my body and brain buzzing. A couple of times a year maybe I can't quite get my head into what I'm doing for some reason and then it's just kind of ok. But joy is my constant.

Both Paul Carter and Dan John are talking about it in a different context. It's not so much the physical and/or mental enjoyment.

80% of the time you'll hit your numbers and it will feel like it should.
10% of the time you'll hit your numbers and it will feel awful...everything will feel heavy. Or you don't hit your numbers because it just feels heavy.
10% of the time you'll hit your numbers and it will feel easy and you feel like you could PR if you wanted to.

That's not the same as saying it's only enjoyable 10% of the time.

Cill94 · 17-11-2020 11:40am

Yes the post is purely about performance. I've had many a day where I felt like ****e and ended up PR-ing, and vice versa.

Patsy167 · 17-11-2020 12:14pm

iguana wrote: »

I must be weird. 99.5% of my exercise is an absolute and utter joy that leaves my body and brain buzzing. A couple of times a year maybe I can't quite get my head into what I'm doing for some reason and then it's just kind of ok. But joy is my constant.

What form of exercise are we talking here?

Mellor · 17-11-2020 12:22pm

iguana wrote: »

I must be weird. 99.5% of my exercise is an absolute and utter joy that leaves my body and brain buzzing.

The more competitive the mindset, or the more you push the limits, the more often you'll feel something didn't click. I think it'a more about the standards that you hold your self to, than the buzz you feel.
If you just train without a care, then there no self-critic weighing you down.

Probably depends on type of sport too.

Black Sheep · 17-11-2020 12:50pm

I think enjoyment and training are linked, but certainly for a significant amount of workouts I am not 'enjoying' training even though I never get tired of seeing the results.

In order to train I have to make a number of 0530 starts at the moment. I'd be lying if those sessions are pleasant, due to the timing alone.

Then there is programming that is physically challenging enough that enjoyment is hard to experience in the moment. In particular I did a program last year which had me doing heavy sets of 8 squats as part of it. There was a point where, having added weight week after week, I was approaching failure. But I knew myself that I was in that zone where if I failed it was going to be because of the horrible grinding feeling of that heavy 3x8 rather than actual mechanical failure.. I would 'quit' rather than fail if I stopped. I knew I had a few more weeks left of microloading. So I kept at it. It wasn't enjoyable, but certainly if you read the likes of Paul Carter then these are exactly the workouts that will drive real progress.

Bit like life really.. I think we overrate pursuing happiness. I reckon the real point of life is to do things that are profound and meaningful. That's not quite the same thing as focusing on enjoying life.

Mellor · 17-11-2020 1:19pm

Black Sheep wrote: »

In particular I did a program last year which had me doing heavy sets of 8 squats as part of it.

In low rep progressive workouts where you are hitting a rep or load PR most sessions. So there are small mental wins along the way. But high reps near max squat sessions are just grim. Session after session of struggling with a weight that's like that you usual last warm up set.

How do you find the good/bad session balance works in jiu jitsu. Huge scope for variance in how good you feel you did there.

Black Sheep · 17-11-2020 1:37pm

Mellor wrote: »

How do you find the good/bad session balance works in jiu jitsu. Huge scope for variance in how good you feel you did there.

I would say that as with lifting I don't look to enjoy all my training sessions, or even most of them, I take it as a bonus. In general I've just mentally committed to the overall process and the results of it, I don't give myself the option of not training. I've taken long layoffs before, and they never worked out well unless they were mandated by injury.

It helps that my friends are my training partners, can't imagine stopping because you wouldn't disassociate with your friends.

Getting purple belt was a significant milestone for me. It was like getting over a hump, and deciding it was actually easier to carry on to the end than stop.

iguana · 17-11-2020 1:49pm

Patsy167 wrote: »

What form of exercise are we talking here?

Mainly skating. With strength, gymnastic yoga and active flexibility to compliment.

Mellor wrote: »

The more competitive the mindset, or the more you push the limits, the more often you'll feel something didn't click. I think it'a more about the standards that you hold your self to, than the buzz you feel.
If you just train without a care, then there no self-critic weighing you down.

I don't think so. I just accept that, as with anything, progress isn't linear and I won't always do better one day than I did two days before. Sometimes I'll achieve something and then be unable to do it again for 6 weeks for no reason I can discern other than I'm too in my own head. I'll sometimes go significantly backwards due to injury or illness. Sometimes, I'll realise I didn't have the correct form and when I focus on better foundations, I end up way behind where I thought I was, but that's ok because I know that in the coming weeks or months, or next year I'll be able to get past where I had plateaued. Sometimes I have what I assume is an easy goal but realise I'm many steps away from it, have to work through those and in the process crack something else that had eluded me.

If I get pissed off with myself because I didn't achieve a particular goal I set in the timeframe I wanted, especially if someone else I know managed it easily. Then I think about it, realise all of the improvements I have made in the same space of time and be proud of those instead. I don't expect to just keeping getting better and achieving more every single time because that's not how this kind of achievement works. But I do derive near constant pleasure from it.

Mellor · 17-11-2020 2:47pm

Black Sheep wrote: »

Getting purple belt was a significant milestone for me. It was like getting over a hump, and deciding it was actually easier to carry on to the end than stop.

I may have missed that in the other thread. Congrats. I think that's the general epiphany at purple. Attrition rate is much lower from there.

iguana wrote: »

I don't think so. I just accept that, as with anything, progress isn't linear and I won't always do better one day than I did two days before. Sometimes I'll achieve something and then be unable to do it again for 6 weeks for no reason I can discern other than I'm too in my own head. I'll sometimes go significantly backwards due to injury or illness. Sometimes, I'll realise I didn't have the correct form and when I focus on better foundations, I end up way behind where I thought I was....

... I don't expect to just keeping getting better and achieving more every single time because that's not how this kind of achievement works. But I do derive near constant pleasure from it.

I still think you are kinda talking about something else. It's not about not maintaining linear progress, you simply won't do that in any skill or activity. Or hitting targets or goal, sometimes they just weren't possible. Setback due to injury is again very different. Not being where you thought you are is perception, not performance.

Taking yoga/flexibility as an example. The days when you hit a pose you never could. Or the days when you can't hit a post that you always did are what they are talking about. These are the outliers and most days are the normal days.
They may not be as obvious in something like yoga, and it's very dynamic, with no clear pass or fail line.
Compared to weight lifting where every time you lift a bar you have to set a weight that you believe you can lift. And when you can't, the fail is obvious.

Again, completive aspect plays a part. If you do gymnastics/or skating for fun, its easy to care less about the bad days. But for a Olympic level athlete, days where you miss moves you should easily hit are a huge frustration.

Patsy167 · 17-11-2020 3:06pm

iguana wrote: »

Mainly skating. With strength, gymnastic yoga and active flexibility to compliment.

That makes sense. The context and target audience for the "rule of 5" mentioned is key. The Author, Dan John mainly speaks to those who are fairly serious about weightlifting. Here's his background - "An All-American discus thrower, Dan has also competed at the highest levels of Olympic lifting, Highland Games and the Weight Pentathlon, an event in which he holds the American record"

iguana · 17-11-2020 3:44pm

Mellor wrote: »

I still think you are kinda talking about something else. It's not about not maintaining linear progress, you simply won't do that in any skill or activity. Or hitting targets or goal, sometimes they just weren't possible. Setback due to injury is again very different. Not being where you thought you are is perception, not performance.

Taking yoga/flexibility as an example. The days when you hit a pose you never could. Or the days when you can't hit a post that you always did are what they are talking about. These are the outliers and most days are the normal days.

We're absolutely talking about the same thing. But maybe it's that I feel like I'm constantly progressing. I have really ambitious goals, but every goal I have is built on so many tiny improvements that I feel week on week. So while I''m really, really far off so much of what I want to do, I know I'm still constantly learning. It maybe helps that I skate in a number of different disciplines and each kind improves the others, so I'm always getting better at something even if it doesn't always look obvious.

Mellor wrote: »

They may not be as obvious in something like yoga, and it's very dynamic, with no clear pass or fail line.

Compared to weight lifting where every time you lift a bar you have to set a weight that you believe you can lift. And when you can't, the fail is obvious.

I do gymnastic yoga for skating. If I try to lean my body backwards in a hydroblade, hold a split while rolling or do a handstand at the top of a ramp any failure is just as obvious.

Mellor wrote: »

Again, completive aspect plays a part. If you do gymnastics/or skating for fun, its easy to care less about the bad days. But for a Olympic level athlete, days where you miss moves you should easily hit are a huge frustration.

I'm not sure any of us here are Olympic level athletes? I'm not sure why that would apply to me more than any of the rest of the posters here?

Alf Veedersane · 17-11-2020 4:04pm

iguana wrote: »

We're absolutely talking about the same thing. But maybe it's that I feel like I'm constantly progressing. I have really ambitious goals, but every goal I have is built on so many tiny improvements that I feel week on week. So while I''m really, really far off so much of what I want to do, I know I'm still constantly learning. It maybe helps that I skate in a number of different disciplines and each kind improves the others, so I'm always getting better at something even if it doesn't always look obvious.

It's not about progression. People can still be progressing and have those days where the weights feel heavier than they should and hitting your number is a lot harder than it normally is or you don't hit the number on that day.

That isn't the same as not progressing...it's just how the lifts feel on a given day.

Most days the weights feel as heavy as they should. The routine days.
Some days they feel light.
Some days they feel heavy.

The rule of thumb being that 1 session in 5 you might well have a day where the weights feel heavier than they should and so you just embrace it as a fact and get on with it.

iguana · 17-11-2020 5:03pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Most days the weights feel as heavy as they should. The routine days.
Some days they feel light.
Some days they feel heavy.

The rule of thumb being that 1 session in 5 you might well have a day where the weights feel heavier than they should and so you just embrace it as a fact and get on with it.

And isn't that just as enjoyable? In fact if the weights feel heavier, there can be a better sense of achievement afterwards. I only do weights specifically a couple of times a week, and mainly just upper body to strengthen the areas that need it. But I always feel pretty great throughout and afterwards.

Maybe I've just got a better playlist to lift to!:P

Patsy167 · 17-11-2020 5:12pm

iguana wrote: »

And isn't that just as enjoyable? In fact if the weights feel heavier, there can be a better sense of achievement afterwards. I only do weights specifically a couple of times a week, and mainly just upper body to strengthen the areas that need it. But I always feel pretty great throughout and afterwards.

Maybe I've just got a better playlist to lift to!:P

Why would you need a playlist to distract you when you enjoy the activity so much?:p

Alf Veedersane · 17-11-2020 5:14pm

iguana wrote: »

And isn't that just as enjoyable? In fact if the weights feel heavier, there can be a better sense of achievement afterwards. I only do weights specifically a couple of times a week, and mainly just upper body to strengthen the areas that need it. But I always feel pretty great throughout and afterwards.

Maybe I've just got a better playlist to lift to!:P

You're still missing the point.

It's not whether it is or it isn't enjoyable or whether or not there is a sense of achievement afterwards. They are completely separate.

iguana · 17-11-2020 5:41pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You're still missing the point.

It's not whether it is or it isn't enjoyable or whether or not there is a sense of achievement afterwards. They are completely separate.

So what is the point then?

Alf Veedersane · 17-11-2020 5:51pm

iguana wrote: »

So what is the point then?

It's just how the lifts feel. It's not about the enjoyment or the feeling of satisfaction you may have afterwards or anything like that.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

That isn't the same as not progressing...it's just how the lifts feel on a given day.

Most days the weights feel as heavy as they should. The routine days.
Some days they feel light.
Some days they feel heavy.

FHFM50 · 17-11-2020 6:01pm

Do a little bit every day

iguana · 17-11-2020 7:02pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

It's just how the lifts feel. It's not about the enjoyment or the feeling of satisfaction you may have afterwards or anything like that.

To me it reads like a motivational statement and if you derive immense pleasure from what you do, you don’t really need motivation. You want to do it because the 80% routine is amazing and the 10% of times that it’s a bit meh, might be disappointing in the moment but not something you need to be motivated to get past.

Alf Veedersane · 17-11-2020 7:11pm

iguana wrote: »

To me it reads like a motivational statement and if you derive immense pleasure from what you do, you don’t really need motivation. You want to do it because the 80% routine is amazing and the 10% of times that it’s a bit meh, might be disappointing in the moment but not something you need to be motivated to get past.

Its nothing to do with a motivational statement. Its saying that 80% of the time, the weights will move and feel like they should. 10% of the time they will feel heavier and it will feel more difficult. 10% it will move easier and faster.

It's not a motivational statement. It's not about whether or not its going to be enjoyable.

iguana · 17-11-2020 7:22pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Its nothing to do with a motivational statement. Its saying that 80% of the time, the weights will move and feel like they should. 10% of the time they will feel heavier and it will feel more difficult. 10% it will move easier and faster.

It's not a motivational statement. It's not about whether or not its going to be enjoyable.

You are leaving out the part where it continues on to say that the foundations are built in the 80%. Making it read as motivation.

Alf Veedersane · 17-11-2020 7:37pm

iguana wrote: »

You are leaving out the part where it continues on to say that the foundations are built in the 80%. Making it read as motivation.

Just to clarify something I spotted in an earlier post which might explain how you see it. The 80% is routine workouts...not amazing ones.

Anyway, I didn't leave out the last bit because it's a given. Its saying the routine workouts, the uneventful training sessions, where everything feels and moves like it should and you hit the numbers, are the foundations of what you ultimately build. Thats not motivational. Just a statement of fact.

You will have the good says where it feels light, bad days where it feels heavy but the majority of days are routine days and they're the days that will be the foundation of the outcome. Which is true.

I don't really see how people could find that motivational or otherwise tbh.

iguana · 17-11-2020 9:44pm

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I don't really see how people could find that motivational or otherwise tbh.

Really, I'd find that kind of sentiment what motivates me through a lot of things in life. I'm doing Nanowrimo at the moment (a thing where you write a novel in November) and I'd say it's a great description of my relationship with writing. Mostly it's just routine, sometimes it's a massive struggle and every so often it just flows and feels great. And you do it for the feeling you get on those great days but you'd never be able to get those good days if you didn't keep going through the routine and the bad ones. (In fact at the moment I'm lucky to even get that routine 80% of the time, I'm having way too many days when it feels 'extra heavy!')

I'd also apply that sentiment to housework, garden maintenance, knitting/crochet and certainly to numerous jobs I've had.

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Just to clarify something I spotted in an earlier post which might explain how you see it. The 80% is routine workouts...not amazing ones.

And see, this why I guess the sentiment has no resonance with me for this part of my life. It's genuinely amazing 99.5% percent of the time. I almost always feel amazing throughout and for hours/days afterwards. There are a handful of times a year where something just doesn't click and it feels kind of meh but the rest of the time I get that invincible feeling. Tbh, if I didn't have the experience of living with an addict, I'd call it addiction.

Alf Veedersane · 17-11-2020 10:22pm

iguana wrote: »

Really, I'd find that kind of sentiment what motivates me through a lot of things in life. I'm doing Nanowrimo at the moment (a thing where you write a novel in November) and I'd say it's a great description of my relationship with writing. Mostly it's just routine, sometimes it's a massive struggle and every so often it just flows and feels great. And you do it for the feeling you get on those great days but you'd never be able to get those good days if you didn't keep going through the routine and the bad ones. (In fact at the moment I'm lucky to even get that routine 80% of the time, I'm having way too many days when it feels 'extra heavy!')

I'd also apply that sentiment to housework, garden maintenance, knitting/crochet and certainly to numerous jobs I've had.

And see, this why I guess the sentiment has no resonance with me for this part of my life. It's genuinely amazing 99.5% percent of the time. I almost always feel amazing throughout and for hours/days afterwards. There are a handful of times a year where something just doesn't click and it feels kind of meh but the rest of the time I get that invincible feeling. Tbh, if I didn't have the experience of living with an addict, I'd call it addiction.

I think you're misunderstanding the whole 'routine' element.

It doesn't mean it isn't enjoyable. It doesn't mean you can't buzz off or that it's meh.

It just means that it the weights feel and move like they should. How you feel about that is something separate.

I can have a routine training session - where my top sets felt like the RPE that they should, back offs are in the range they should be etc etc - and feel great for training and have enjoyed it.

A training session can be routine and be enjoyable. They're not mutually exclusive becaise there referring to different things.

Mellor · 17-11-2020 10:24pm

iguana wrote: »

We're absolutely talking about the same thing. But maybe it's that I feel like I'm constantly progressing. I have really ambitious goals, but every goal I have is built on so many tiny improvements that I feel week on week. So while I''m really, really far off so much of what I want to do, I know I'm still constantly learning. It maybe helps that I skate in a number of different disciplines and each kind improves the others, so I'm always getting better at something even if it doesn't always look obvious.

It’s not about progression. It’s not about injuries or goals or learning. You are still conforming you are talking about something else.

Talking about how you feel amazing is also something else.

You said some days you aren’t as good as others. That’s what it is referring to. If if you still enjoy the bad days.

If somebody lifts the same weight every session for strength.
Most days are comfortable lifts. The weight moves.
Some days it will fly up and they could lift more.
Some days it will be slow and barely make it.
That’s all it is saying.

Even if somebody enjoys the slow hard days. I still don’t think they would label it as a greater achievement.

I'm not sure any of us here are Olympic level athletes? I'm not sure why that would apply to me more than any of the rest of the posters here?

That was to highlight the difference between somebody who trains in a non-competitive style for fun and somebody who trains for competition where they hold themselves to a standard. It was just clear example, I’m not saying it applies only to Olympic athletes.

Take the difference between hitting a golf ball in the garden aimlessly and playing a round of golf. As soon as you keep score you are tracking performance. Whether you are bothered by performance or not, tracking it exposes the variation that the “rule” mentioned previously.

Cill94 · 18-11-2020 12:57am

Iguana, I don't mean this disrespectfully, but it sounds like you've not been strength training long enough to understand what we're actually talking about. The point is usually clear to anyone who has gotten past the beginner stage and encountered plateaus in their numbers.

If every day was a good one where your performance improved, we'd all be benching 500 kilos after a year. Instead most will have 80% days where numbers stay around the same, 10% where they have a bad workout and do worse than normal, and maybe 10% where they're in a position to set a personal record (or at least feel great). That percentage will depend on how many gains you've already made obviously.

The post is from a lifting coach, so I don't know how relevant it is to skating.

Things I wish I knew 5/10 years ago

Comments