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26-01-2019, 16:16   #31
magicbastarder
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Originally Posted by Duffryman View Post
Or if you're driving towards a junction where you intend to turn left or right, it's not actually mandatory to use your indicator
uh, yes it is.
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The law requires you to signal properly before moving off, turning right or left, changing lanes, overtaking, slowing down or stopping. You must signal clearly and in good time.
http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%...f_the_road.pdf
page 106
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26-01-2019, 16:25   #32
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Is this some sort of Tour de France in slow motion?
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26-01-2019, 16:25   #33
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Originally Posted by Twenty Grand View Post
I think it's more the fact that they're spread across both road and cycle lane, moving as fast as the slowest child, while there's a tailback of traffic that can't pass.
I'd say there would a much larger tailback of traffic should those ~60 children be in ~60 cars.

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Originally Posted by Duffryman View Post
I think this cycle bus is a great idea in principle, but I also think the OP has a valid point here in terms of how it operates.

Not only do cyclists (children) fill the cycle lane, but other cyclists (adults) take up the 'regular' traffic lane in such a way as to hold up all the other traffic too, so that - as somebody says again - nobody in a motorised vehicle can drive any faster than the slowest child on a bike.

I don't know what the solution might be - maybe a derogation from the usual law, to allow children up to the age of 12 to cycle on the footpath?
The adults need to be there to keep the children safe. They should probably do smaller groups of children than the one we saw on RTE though. The point is to keep the group together, hence stopping traffic on the roundabout. Honestly, if all those kids were in cars for that 3km, traffic would be moving a lot slower.

With the volume of children the 'bus' is carrying, you couldn't have them all on the footpath. Part of the point of the 'bus', one would assume, is to show how many children could be cycling to school when it is made safer for them to do so.

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Originally Posted by Duffryman View Post

Using a cycle lane falls into that same category.
Using a useable cycle lane falls into that same category. Lest we forget, many cycle lanes are not fit for purpose.
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26-01-2019, 16:29   #34
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Originally Posted by Duffryman View Post
....Or if you're driving towards a junction where you intend to turn left or right, it's not actually mandatory to use your indicator....
WTF?

Road Traffic Gereral Bye Laws 1964:

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23.—(1) Whenever a driver intends to slow down, stop or alter course, he shall either give a hand signal in accordance with the following Table or give a signal by using a direction indicator or stop lamp :

SIGNALS TO OTHER ROAD USERS.

Intended course of action

Signal to be given

I am going to slow down or stop.

Extend the right arm and hand fully with the palm turned downwards, and move the arm slowly upwards and downwards.

I am going to turn to the left.

In the case of a vehicle other than a cycle or animal-drawn vehicle, extend the right arm and hand to the right, and rotate them in an anticlockwise direction.

In the case of a cycle or animal-drawn vehicle, extend the left arm and hand fully to the left with the palm to the front, and hold them rigid in a horizontal position straight out from the left side.

I am going to turn to the right.

Extend the right arm and hand fully to the right with the palm to the front, and hold them rigid in a horizontal position straight out from the right side.

(2) Whenever a driver wishes to indicate to a pointsman the direction he wishes to take, he shall give either a hand signal in accordance with the following Table or a signal by using a direction indicator :

SIGNALS TO POINTSMEN.

Intended course of action

Signal to be given

I want to go straight ahead.

Extend the forearm and hand upwards with the palm to the front.

I want to turn to the left.

In the case of a vehicle other than a cycle, point the right forearm and hand (with the fingers extended) to the left.

In the case of a cycle or an animal-drawn vehicle, extend the left arm and hand fully to the left with the palm to the front, and hold them rigid in a horizontal position straight out from the left side.

I want to turn to the right.

Extend the right arm and hand fully to the right with the palm to the front, and hold them rigid in a horizontal position straight out from the right side.

(3) A driver shall give a signal in sufficient time before altering course and in such a manner as to be clearly visible and clearly understood by those for whom it is intended.

(4) A driver shall not give simultaneous contradictory signals.
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26-01-2019, 16:37   #35
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Originally Posted by Twenty Grand View Post
I totally agree that cyclists should have segregated paths, but until then we all have to share the road.
We do indeed. Do you pull over in heavy urban traffic when a faster cyclist comes up behind you?
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26-01-2019, 16:46   #36
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Originally Posted by Dakotabigone View Post
Is this some sort of Tour de France in slow motion?
Yes, in the same way that all traffic jams are Formula 1 in slow motion.
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26-01-2019, 16:49   #37
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Originally Posted by Duffryman View Post

Using a cycle lane falls into that same category.
Have a look at these and tell me again if you think courtesy is the big issue

http://irishcycle.com/2015/11/05/ima...se-cycle-lanes
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26-01-2019, 16:51   #38
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Originally Posted by Mrs OBumble View Post
The kids should be walking to school: no need for vehicles to with any number of wheels to be used.

Just wait until some kid does a bunk from the cycle train - never makes it to school/home, gets into trouble
If that's the best reason not to have the cycle bus that you can come up with, they are on very solid ground.
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26-01-2019, 16:53   #39
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Originally Posted by Twenty Grand View Post
Still, there's precedent for road users to get punished for holding up traffic.

If you've drivers slowed to 10km/h for 3km, you might get one hell of a tailback.

The lads running the cycle train need to be aware of that.
Or maybe somebody could show the drivers in the tailback how to overtake safely?
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26-01-2019, 16:56   #40
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Originally Posted by Twenty Grand View Post
Yes, but they also need to have respect.

It goes both ways.
Just in terms of the 'respect goes both ways' point, cyclists don't kill motorists by making mistakes. It's a completely false equivalence.
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26-01-2019, 16:57   #41
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Originally Posted by Mrs OBumble View Post
The kids should be walking to school: no need for vehicles to with any number of wheels to be used.

Just wait until some kid does a bunk from the cycle train - never makes it to school/home, gets into trouble
What are you on about??
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26-01-2019, 17:04   #42
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Originally Posted by Mooretaxi View Post
Great to see the kids cycling to school but how can the adults get away with the blatant disregard for the traffic? Cycling in the middle of the road and stopping the bike on the roundabout blocking the traffic that would have had the right of way on the roundabout etc.
I’m all for kids being able to cycle but at the very least the people organizing this publicity event should have led by example, it’s quite possible that the next time one of those kids come to a roundabout that they think they automatically have the right of way
https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/201...alway-cycling/
In summary. You want traffic to give up their right of way, for other traffic, because you think it has right of way, when it doesn't.

Also you think this is a blatant disregard for the traffic, because of your blatant disregard for traffic (cyclists).

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Safety, and not capacity, is the over-riding principle for good roundabout design.
My experience is cycling in lane is the safest way around a round about. Go around it like a car. Drivers for some reason treat a cyclist in lane with the same respect as a car, spacing etc. But if you leave space for a car to pass you, they will push you to the side or ignore you like you're not there. Which is why a cycle lane on a roundabout rarely works. Hence....

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4.8.2 Integration or Segregation and Roundabout Capacity
No Cycle Lanes on Roundabouts

Cycle lanes should not be included in the circulating section of roundabouts. Cyclists should be either mixed with traffic on roundabouts in a single circulating lane (i.e. cycle logos in the traffic lane, no cycle lane) or else segregated from traffic by physical means.
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26-01-2019, 17:06   #43
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Originally Posted by Twenty Grand View Post
...A tractor driver was banned for causing a tailback in Mayo....
He was fined and banned because he ignored the fixed penalty notice and subsequently, he didn't appear in court.

Had he paid the FPN and/or appeared in court there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that he would have been banned.
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26-01-2019, 17:07   #44
beauf
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I think it's more the fact that they're spread across both road and cycle lane, moving as fast as the slowest child, while there's a tailback of traffic that can't pass.
Galway is gridlocked all over the place with tailbacks that have nothing to do with cyclists. Cyclists will make no difference to the traffic in Galway except reduce it. This is 60 cars taken off the road.
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26-01-2019, 17:11   #45
Wishbone Ash
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Galway is gridlocked all over the place with tailbacks that have nothing to do with cyclists. Cyclists will make no difference to the traffic in Galway except reduce it. This is 60 cars taken off the road.
Yet you will hear idiots saying that they are late for work because they were held up by a cyclist. No mention of the 500 private cars that were only 20% occupied that they encountered on their route.
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