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18-12-2018, 16:28   #16
Dravokivich
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How do you mean? Amber is the one you stop on unless it's unsafe to do so. It doesn't matter a jot how the long the sequence is, as soon as that's amber that means you should be ready to stop unless you really can't.

People keep going however, and treat it like " ah you've a few seconds til you have to stop" and 4-5 cars squeeze on through. In reality, only that first car should ever be in a position that it has to proceed through an amber light because it is close to the stop line.

You stop on amber. Simple as. It's written in very plain english in the Road Traffic Act.
Nothing is written in plain simple English in any act of law.

For Amber, you stop unless unsafe to do so.
Same pretty much goes for red.

Once you are within a Junction on Amber or Red, the lights are of no significance to you. Right of Way is yours regardless of where the Green Signals are.

All in the road traffic acts.
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18-12-2018, 16:44   #17
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Nothing is written in plain simple English in any act of law.

For Amber, you stop unless unsafe to do so.
Same pretty much goes for red.

Once you are within a Junction on Amber or Red, the lights are of no significance to you. Right of Way is yours regardless of where the Green Signals are.

All in the road traffic acts.
But that's not what we're talking about here. People are specifically entering a junction after a light goes amber and that's problem.

I have no problems with a vehicle clearing a junction/proceeding if it has entered while it had right of way.

The problem is vehicles gunning it well back from the lights thinking that amber means they can go. What you do on approach to lights is very black and white.
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18-12-2018, 16:52   #18
Dravokivich
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But that's not what we're talking about here. People are specifically entering a junction after a light goes amber and that's problem.

I have no problems with a vehicle clearing a junction/proceeding if it has entered while it had right of way.

The problem is vehicles gunning it well back from the lights thinking that amber means they can go. What you do on approach to lights is very black and white.
From my recollection of reading it, Right of Way in the junction after a red, makes no distinction as to why you ended up in that junction, with a red light from where you came. Just that you are there and need to clear the junction, without others impeeding you, even if they have a green light. That'll need to be addressed before putting up Red Light Cameras. I'm not condoning it, just indicating what this thread is pushing, isn't simply a matter of sticking a few cameras up.

If the amber comes up, and I don't have the distance to stop in a manner that isn't abrupt, I'll go through it. Unless I see something else around the junction that requires me to stop abruptly.

I ain't one for speeding either. I'm genuinely not the kind to be in a rush to get anywhere. But the Ambers aren't usually set to the distance required to stop safely, for the speed limit on the road. They are just to tell you that the red light is coming up in the sequence.
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18-12-2018, 16:57   #19
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The issue with red light cameras is you don't have to stop for them and amber sequences are far too short in most circumstances.

I always watch what's going on around me even if the pedestrian light is green (where applicable). And I constantly encourage my son to do so also. I wont cross a road if i see a car approaching. Even if they'd need to turn onto the road im on and they dont have an indicator on.
I would have said Amber sequences as well as breaks between crossings turning green after the crossing light is red are far too long, giving rise to the belief that you'll be grand running a red.

Traffic light cameras are the way to go. They can be set to only pick up cars after the light is red, behind a certain point, so it won't affect people sitting in there when it turns amber.

I guarantee you, after the first flurry of fines come out, RLJing will plummet across Ireland. Very shortly, it will become the norm and the culture will change.
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18-12-2018, 17:14   #20
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Originally Posted by Weepsie View Post
But that's not what we're talking about here. People are specifically entering a junction after a light goes amber and that's problem.

I have no problems with a vehicle clearing a junction/proceeding if it has entered while it had right of way.

The problem is vehicles gunning it well back from the lights thinking that amber means they can go. What you do on approach to lights is very black and white.
From my recollection of reading it, Right of Way in the junction after a red, makes no distinction as to why you ended up in that junction, with a red light from where you came. Just that you are there and need to clear the junction, without others impeeding you, even if they have a green light. That'll need to be addressed before putting up Red Light Cameras. I'm not condoning it, just indicating what this thread is pushing, isn't simply a matter of sticking a few cameras up.

If the amber comes up, and I don't have the distance to stop in a manner that isn't abrupt, I'll go through it. Unless I see something else around the junction that requires me to stop abruptly.

I ain't one for speeding either. I'm genuinely not the kind to be in a rush to get anywhere. But the Ambers aren't usually set to the distance required to stop safely, for the speed limit on the road. They are just to tell you that the red light is coming up in the sequence.
People shouldn't be surprised by an amber light. Any green light is bound to go amber. If you didn't see it going green, then you know it's going to go amber soon. If you did see it going green, you should have a good idea of when it's going amber.

There are far too many excuses for breaking lights.
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18-12-2018, 17:16   #21
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Its gotten much, much worse in my opinion. I love stopping on yellow and getting hooted at by the people behind me who would have gone through on a clear red!

However, I can understand why some drivers do it... various light sequences with a 3 or 4 minute wait... you do it three times and you're home 12 minutes earlier. I wouldn't though.
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18-12-2018, 17:19   #22
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It's only an issue if cyclists do it.
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18-12-2018, 17:41   #23
Dravokivich
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People shouldn't be surprised by an amber light. Any green light is bound to go amber. If you didn't see it going green, then you know it's going to go amber soon. If you did see it going green, you should have a good idea of when it's going amber.

There are far too many excuses for breaking lights.
I'm not going to focus on remembering the timings of traffic lights. They should be adjusted to suit the junction and/or road they are on.
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18-12-2018, 17:50   #24
CramCycle
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I'm not going to focus on remembering the timings of traffic lights. They should be adjusted to suit the junction and/or road they are on.
You don't need to learn anything, you see a green light, don't keep gunning it as if it will stay green. Be prepared that you may have to stop until you reach a distance that stopping before the line would be dangerous/difficult. You should always be able to stop on Amber unless you are essentially going to be over the line if you drop anchor, in which case, proceed. If it is red when you get there and you cannot stop in time, then you clearly were not paying enough attention with the amber lights.
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18-12-2018, 18:00   #25
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I'm seeing it all too frequently too.
What's worse is those who speed up into a junction when it goes Amber or just red.
Their focus is now taken off the road observation as they focus on making the light, and any out of the ordinary incident could be serious.
I already posted a dashcam clip of an accident that happened when a driver sped up to make an Amber light turn but failed to notice a car turning out from a line of traffic.
It could be a child crossing the road... all for thinking you'll get to work or home that bit quicker, but in reality you'll probably hit lights elsewhere anyway.
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18-12-2018, 18:07   #26
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Definitely getting worse. Everyone rushing to get somewhere.

Bus I'm on had to brake to allow a dozen pedestrians cross against a red man.

Enevitably a bike will also break a red and a car will too within the next 40 minutes of my journey.

The only solution is to ban red lights !
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18-12-2018, 18:07   #27
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Its gotten much, much worse in my opinion. I love stopping on yellow and getting hooted at by the people behind me who would have gone through on a clear red!

However, I can understand why some drivers do it... various light sequences with a 3 or 4 minute wait... you do it three times and you're home 12 minutes earlier. I wouldn't though.
I often wonder what valuable things these people are doing with their saved minutes when they get home. Maybe they should give two of them to thinking about that family standing by a graveside reading a bedtime story.

I live in Texas where, as someone mentioned, people drink and drive all the time. But the red light cameras work a treat: you know you got the fine straight away simply because the camera has a very prominent flash, which is satisfying to see when it catches someone! The only problem is it's clearly used as a revenue generator because it also catches people in a junction after it goes red, and in New York they were discovered to have shortened yellow light times to catch more people, which has led to more fender benders as people stop at yellow lights even when it's unsafe (the rule here is that if you are in the junction when the lights have changed you're in the wrong). But these are issues that need tweaking, rather than fundamental problems with the idea. It works well in general.

I'm not proud to admit I ran through a yellow my first week here. The seventy quid fine softened my cough fairly overly and I haven't done it since.
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18-12-2018, 18:17   #28
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/15/o...ns-cities.html

Saw the link to this excellent piece from New York Times on twitter earlier today and thought of it again when I read this thread. The hierarchy of rights needs to be reversed in favour of pedestrians and cyclists and its happening already in many cities. Today within 10 minutes I had occasion to cross 2 zebra crossings twice and in 3 of the 4 cases I had to eyeball the driver mid-crossing and insist they stopped to allow me complete the crossing. One waited til the last second as he assumed I would stop instead. Now I'm an adult of average height and lots of experience so could do that but no way could you send a child walking on that route and assume that they'd be ok because there are pedestrian crossings. More nervous adults understandably give in too and stop in their tracks (I'm talking about when there is no car coming in the other direction) thus fuelling the motorist's sense of entitlement

Enforcement, red light cameras and lower speed limits are all needed along with a culture shift towards behavioral change. The judge in the case cited said that speed was an aggravating factor and that the driver was driving at 10 km above the speed limit. We know that the chances of being killed from an impact with a vehicle increase substantially for every extra 10km
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18-12-2018, 18:20   #29
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I found it chronic when I was home last summer, absolutely unbelievable. Nearly ever set of lights I was at someone would run them. The sequence times are terrible though, so many junctions you seem to sit there forever even if nothing coming from the other roads.
Red light cameras and some level of intelligent light changes that actually account for traffic are badly needed. The wait time for pedestrians is even worse.

Last edited by Cookie_Monster; 19-12-2018 at 00:27. Reason: remove spare words
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18-12-2018, 18:22   #30
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It’s gotten endemic all over the country. I have to coach the kids not to trust the green man and to check twice before crossing due to cars and vans blasting through pedestrian lights only to stop in traffic 20 metres up the road. Morons.
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