Nintendo: General Discussion

Banjo · 29-06-2017 12:43am

What he said, about sinking ship and Nintendo's attitude to saving the WiiU. And to add to it, the Switch's catalogue feels like hastily kicked gravel on a shallow dirt grave.

But i have to disagree with you : those tiny controllers are grand.

Buy one. If only because not having one precludes you from feeling betrayed if the Switch is belly up in 3 1/2 years time...

Corholio · 29-06-2017 12:43am

The main innovation of the Switch is the portability, not sure why you'd not mention that? I understand you aren't a portable player but a big number of people are enjoying this use of it. The HD Rumble isn't an out in front innovation, it's just something that they put in. It's a nice little feature when it's used good but it's hardly something they have pushed as groundbreaking. Using the 2 joy con separate is not something they have pushed hugely either, it's just another option controller wise.

The Wii U message was convoluted from the start and never recovered for a few reasons from there. It's been much clearer with the Switch use wise. This is what it does...and a lot of people have bought into the idea. The Switch is only 4 months old, talking support in absolute terms v Wii U is very early.

Personally I'm really enjoying the Switch and I'd recommend it to anyone, it has actually converted me into a much more portable player than I thought because of how streamlined the tech is. It's not the PS4, Xbox but it's not trying to be. Of the big 3 going into next year I can see Microsoft having it more tricky than Nintendo, despite having a more powerful console.

sligeach · 29-06-2017 1:40am

Ah yes, I meant to mention that portability isn't an innovation. Handheld games consoles have been around since the late 80's.

Corholio · 29-06-2017 1:51am

Right...

Well I've pretty much said all I would want to say about the benefits etc of the Switch so no real point in treading already travelled ground in regards to it.

Victor McDade · 29-06-2017 3:41am

Third parties were on board with the Wii U initially because of the success of the Wii. Once sales collapsed they lost interest of course. I understand what you're saying about Nintendo allowing the ship to sink but I'll go back to my point that the were suffering financially in the last couple of years and the irresponsible thing would have been to not try correct that. They are a company with shareholders and over 5000 employees, they have a resposibility to those people and their families moreso than to the customers who bought their hardware 5 years ago and now feel abandoned because they chose to try steady the ship.
Sligeach, you say you're a huge Nintendo fan but you constantly predict failure to the point that I think most observers would assume you secretly want the Switch to fail for whatever reason. But I know you've already denied that in the past so no need to repeat youself. I agree it won't sell anywhere near the 100 million that the Wii sold, maybe even half that is being optimistic but that shouldn't be a banchmark to determine success/failure. Millions of those Wii units were impulse purchases by casual gamers which were left to gather dust after no time at all.
As for innovation, there's nothing more to say, you aren't interested in the portable nature of the console and that's fine, but you are in a minority there. As for HD rumble, it may turn out to be a gimmick but as with your prediction of failure, its subjective to say that at the moment. The system is still only 4 months old!
I said before that we need to give third parties time to consider the Switch. I don't blame them for not wanting to get burned again like they did with the Wii U. There was a lot of uncertainty about how this console would be received but thankfully, so far, demand seems high. If there's no interest by the time E3 2018 comes around then at that point we can agree that they're not interested. We just don't know what's being worked on though so we can't assume third parties are staying away.

I hope this hasn't come across as defensive or aggressive, honestly trying to be a voice of reason. I won't try to hide that I'm a Nintendo fan though, have been since the SNES. And I don't feel like my Wii U was abandoned, I got countless hours of fun out of it. And it still gets played regularly.

CiDeRmAn · 29-06-2017 7:10am

The WiiU was abandoned just like the original Xbox was abandoned, the systems both were replaced within four years of release with an almost immediate cessation of development for both by their parent company, in favour of the replacement.
The 360 went onto even greater things, as we all know.
There was ill feeling on the part of some Xbox owners because of the abrupt end, but the software library for the system at the time remained strong and worth playing.

I see no reason for the Switch not to follow suit.
Like the 360 the Nintendo device isn't doing anything especially new but it does have the opportunity to deliver gaming experiences in an attractive package, in ways that many have never tried, in the 360s case it was online gaming and an easy to use interface, in the Switch's it's home console quality games, made with Nintendo flair, playable outside of the home environment.

We may see an uptick in 3rd party interest with the current sashes trend continuing, but I will be personally disappointed if we don't get done significant buy in from them in the next 6 months

sligeach · 29-06-2017 11:33am

The XBOX was Microsoft's first attempt at a console(so they weren't going to get everything right) and sold slightly more than Gamecube but they were both miles behind the PS2. The XBOX360 had backwards compatibility which softened the blow somewhat.

The Switch has severed all ties with Wii U and are instead selling slightly modified games back to us at full price. Battle Mode could have and should have been added to the Wii U version of MK8. All the tweaks that have been added including today's update, could have run on Wii U.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/06/mario_kart_8_deluxe_version_1_2_0_is_now_live

It's no different than the latest Zelda: BOTW DLC pack that's releasing later today on Wii U and Switch.

WeleaseWoderick · 29-06-2017 1:27pm

sligeach wrote: »

The XBOX was Microsoft's first attempt at a console(so they weren't going to get everything right) and sold slightly more than Gamecube but they were both miles behind the PS2. The XBOX360 had backwards compatibility which softened the blow somewhat.

The Switch has severed all ties with Wii U and are instead selling slightly modified games back to us at full price. Battle Mode could have and should have been added to the Wii U version of MK8. All the tweaks that have been added including today's update, could have run on Wii U.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2017/06/mario_kart_8_deluxe_version_1_2_0_is_now_live

It's no different than the latest Zelda: BOTW DLC pack that's releasing later today on Wii U and Switch.

That ship sailed a long time ago. Mario Kart 8 on the Wii U got one of the best DLC packs that I can remember any game getting.

Mario Kart 8 Deluxe is selling very well on the Switch so there was obviously a market for it. It would also make no sense to continue adding updates to the legacy game on a dead console.

CiDeRmAn · 29-06-2017 1:40pm

Honestly, seeing as you haven't owned a console outside of the Nintendo brand I'm not sure if you get the consumer experience of owning any of the non-Nintendo consoles mentioned, while I owned them all, at launch, and experienced the effects of system updates/upgrades/replacements and so on.
The 360 was an entirely different machine to the Xbox, and the backwards compatibility was patchy at best, and I'm saying that as someone who owned both devices.
The PS2/PS3 experience was similarly difficult, with the PS3 60gb system I owned being fully backwards compatible with my collection but the device itself made of chocolate that eventually died, resulting in a replacement system that Sony never brought backwards compatibility to.
You could get certain PS2 games on the PS3, but you had to pay for them.
The experience going from PS3 to PS4 is a brick wall, if you own a PS3 disc of Motorstorm you can forget about playing it on the PS4.
The XboxOne has had a decent respect of it's previous gen, with some impressive titles being brought to the console, I was playing Ikaruga and Radiant Silvergun last night, two games that I had owned on the 360.

This has been said until we are all sick in the face, every new format has had remasters, it's across the board, and the Switch is no different.
I can see the argument for the MK8 battle mode being brought to the WiiU, in that I can agree, and I was surprised they didn't.

Ultimately though the notion that Nintendo as incompetent, bad, wrong, selfish, buffoons or any other derogatory term is just personalising the company and it's decisions.

It makes products, sometimes they've made popular things, like the Wii, sometimes not so much, the WiiU, but their production of quality gaming experiences is not in question, otherwise why would any of us invest in their hardware at all, some to the exclusion of the other brands and formats.

Honestly, I would be far harder on Microsoft for not stress testing the 360 and releasing a wretched device with such a failure rate.
Similarly the price point and first 18 month software line up on the PS3 was appalling, and Sony were quite unapologetic for either.
The Xbox One has had a litany of crazy plans from MS, from it's price point to hardware choices, as well as software lineup, as did the PS4 with stock shortages and, again, a limited software lineup for the initial 18 months.

Had the WiiU been supported by Nintendo for a further 12 months it would have achieved nothing, no one was buying them any more, no one was developing any more, even Nintendo had tailed off new development, despite supporting it almost single handed for so long.
The device was done, the brand of Nintendo would have suffered with a continued association with a console no one wanted to play.

Bringing the Switch to market was the right thing to do, and the sales and interest out there bears that out.
Not only that but the Mini consoles have worked well too, driving interest in the Nintendo brand even higher.
While the 3DS has maintained that youthful market, interested in Pokemon and such, the Mini Classic range are driving attention in that adult market, the one that had moved almost wholesale to the Sony/MS consoles, and as a result we see the Switch appealing to a broad demo, a demo with money to spend, developing a momentum in sales and hopefully 3rd party support won't be too far behind.

You don't own a Switch, maybe you will, but you comments are slightly hollow because you don't, and I'm not engaging on this topic again, because I think I've encapsulated most of my points here, and I've work to be doing!
I understand, most of all, that you are a lover of Nintendo and your WiiU, and I respect that, and I respect your opinions though I don't always agree with them, and I will defend you from personal attacks from others, as I believe you've the right to express them, however much I might feel you are in error.

geotrig · 29-06-2017 1:56pm

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Honestly, seeing as you haven't owned a console outside of the Nintendo brand I'm not sure if you get the consumer experience of.

:eek:
whattttt !!!!! so if you've never owned an xbox(of any sort) ? how can you compare :think:

although i admire the dedication to the nintendo brand !

CiDeRmAn · 29-06-2017 2:18pm

geotrig wrote: »

:eek:
whattttt !!!!! so if you've never owned an xbox(of any sort) ? how can you compare :think:

although i admire the dedication to the nintendo brand !

I don't think I was ever committed to a single brand, always to the good games and/or the new experiences.
Hence I went from one new device to another, before giving up the buying and selling and keeping them all in the gamesroom.
But my Nintendo hardware has the most character, it has to be said.

madmoe · 30-06-2017 2:58pm

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I don't think I was ever committed to a single brand, always to the good games and/or the new experiences.
Hence I went from one new device to another, before giving up the buying and selling and keeping them all in the gamesroom.
But my Nintendo hardware has the most character, it has to be said.

How much Nintendo hardware do you have? I'm curious to know? Does it go right back to the beginning?

Banjo · 30-06-2017 3:49pm

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Honestly, seeing as you haven't owned a console outside of the Nintendo brand I'm not sure if you get the consumer experience of owning any of the non-Nintendo consoles mentioned, while I owned them all, at launch, and experienced the effects of system updates/upgrades/replacements and so on....

Honestly, I would be far harder on Microsoft for not stress testing the 360 and releasing a wretched device with such a failure rate....

Had the WiiU been supported by Nintendo for a further 12 months it would have achieved nothing, no one was buying them any more, no one was developing any more, even Nintendo had tailed off new development, despite supporting it almost single handed for so long.

I know, I'm a little late.
And I've butchered your post.
But damnit I owned a WiiU, I own a Switch and I will be heard

Anyway, I just picked a couple of bits out, because it strikes me that while those of us with less slutacious gaming habits maybe can't see the bigger picture and where the WiiU incident fits into it, perhaps those of you who are looser with your gaming virtues have been numbed to poor treatment or attitude towards the playerbase?

I mean, if I'm getting eaten by a shark, but you watched your whole family - not just the wife and kids but brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, cousins, neices, uncles, hot australian chicks that say you might be related through their step dad's half brother and a great aunt on your mother's side but your dick tells you that can't be true and to just go for it, ALL of them, murdered by shadow beasts, and every treasured family member that fell rose up, feral and mindless, and tore into their own kin in an arterial orgy of viscera.... sure, your experience was worse but I'm still being eaten by a shark and maybe you could just get over yourself and shoot the ****ing thing while I still have some of my legs left.

And so it is with the Wii U. It's not about them stopping all support, that was just how it ended. The death knell was sounding from around 6 months after launch. Earlier if you listened to some commentators talking about the brand confusion, which they did absolutely nothing to clear up.

It's not the ****test thing a console manufacturer has ever done to it's very small player base, probably it's not even top 5, but it did happen, it happened very slowly over a period of 4 years, everyone was screaming about it the whole time it was happening but the manufacturer refused to acknowledge the problem until it was too late and then after they brought the axe down there was absolutely zero remorse. Why should there be? They don't owe us anything, as I'm sure a few of you will remind me. And sure, Microsoft and Sony have done far worse.

But sure I know that. I've always known that. That is why I don't own XBoxes or Playstations, and I buy Nintendo because until recently they've always Ninendone what the others don't.

And yeah, the Switch made financial sense. That's not in dispute. You know what else would have made financial sense? Having a ****ing plan in late 2012/early 2013 to generate brand awareness and not try to coast on the success of the Wii. It doesn't matter how great the software library was if there's no one there to see it.

So all I'm saying is yes, you've suffered. And maybe this didn't hurt you. But please stop telling me it's not hurting me...

<Cue the orchestral swell>

CiDeRmAn · 30-06-2017 4:31pm

madmoe wrote: »

How much Nintendo hardware do you have? I'm curious to know? Does it go right back to the beginning?

Everything, mostly.
I don't have the Famicom titler, nor a Famicom Twin or a FDD add on, the Famicom Twin I hope to add this year.
Aside from that, most things I think, all the consoles that got a release here, as well as the likes of the Virtual Boy and Gameboy Light that didn't.
The same is the case for the other formats, everything from Sega, Sony, MS and most other devices too.
Aside from the aforementioned Famicom Twin I need to pick up some others like one particular pre-Famicom console by Nintendo, a PC Engine Duo and that's mostly it.

CiDeRmAn · 30-06-2017 4:34pm

Banjo wrote: »

So all I'm saying is yes, you've suffered. And maybe this didn't hurt you. But please stop telling me it's not hurting me...

<Cue the orchestral swell>

madmoe · 03-07-2017 9:29am

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

Everything, mostly.
I don't have the Famicom titler, nor a Famicom Twin or a FDD add on, the Famicom Twin I hope to add this year.
Aside from that, most things I think, all the consoles that got a release here, as well as the likes of the Virtual Boy and Gameboy Light that didn't.
The same is the case for the other formats, everything from Sega, Sony, MS and most other devices too.
Aside from the aforementioned Famicom Twin I need to pick up some others like one particular pre-Famicom console by Nintendo, a PC Engine Duo and that's mostly it.

WOW! Impressive ;-)

CiDeRmAn · 03-07-2017 9:47am

madmoe wrote: »

WOW! Impressive ;-)

Thanks.
Bests of the bunch are the following

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCMWyhCeCx29dNmAPKC5bUWJIdGoXqY5p1SEY9Dy3VewQE0rUa

Pac1Man · 03-07-2017 10:12am

The Concorde of controllers that last one.

CiDeRmAn · 03-07-2017 12:28pm

I was peeved that the 360 Steel Battalion game didn't have a little dongle to let the original controller work with it.
The Xbox port is just a modified USB port and a cheap as chips dongle would have allowed the Steel Battalion controller to plug straight in.
After that it would be the dev would have to enable it's function in game, which would have been a hell of a lot better than the Kinect sh1te they used instead.

Pac1Man · 03-07-2017 1:10pm

Was that the game whereby if you didn't eject in time, the game would delete your save?!

I wish developers took similar risks these days.

CiDeRmAn · 03-07-2017 3:11pm

Pac1Man wrote: »

Was that the game whereby if you didn't eject in time, the game would delete your save?!

I wish developers took similar risks these days.

That's the one.
Your save was your character, if you die he/she dies too.

sligeach · 08-07-2017 10:18am

Here's a bit of insight into just what it takes to in terms of sales for a game to chart in the UK. Also, the best selling games in June and Switch's market share.

"you could sell under 5,000 units to break the Top 50 this week, and you only needed a little more than 21,000 copies sold to reach the Top Ten........PS4 accounted for over 55% of the games sold last month, Xbox One is at No.2 with 28.4%, while Switch - which has a significantly smaller install base - is at No.3 with 5.7%."

Here is the UKIE/GfK Top 20 for June:

May June
New 1 Crash Bandicoot N.Sane Trilogy
New 2 Tekken 7
5 3 Grand Theft Auto V
12 4 Horizon: Zero Dawn
9 5 Overwatch
New 6 Dirt 4
1 7 Injustice 2
5 8 FIFA 17
New 9 Wipeout: Omega Collection
7 10 Rocket League
3 11 Mario Kart 8: Deluxe
15 12 Forza Horizon 3
6 13 Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Wildlands
11 14 Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare
New 15 Arms
19 16 Dishonored 2
8 17 LEGO Worlds
10 18 The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
2 19 Prey
22 20 Tom Clancy's Rainbow 6: Siege

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-07-06-crash-bandicoot-rescues-uk-retail-market-in-june

T. Hanks · 08-07-2017 11:34am

Miyamoto with another headshot on Sony / MS

http://wccftech.com/miyamoto-many-consumers-look-variety/

Pac1Man · 08-07-2017 1:17pm

M!Ck^ wrote: »

Miyamoto with another headshot on Sony / MS

http://wccftech.com/miyamoto-many-consumers-look-variety/

Either that or justifying their own low powered machine.

Wouldn't it be nice to have variety on a high powered one...

dunworth1 · 08-07-2017 1:55pm

Pac1Man wrote: »

Either that or justifying their own low powered machine.

Wouldn't it be nice to have variety on a high powered one...

why is everything about being the most powerful?

to me, its all about the experience and having the prettiest looking games does not make it the best

the switch in my opinion for me with my life being so hectic is the best console this gen it gives me the ability to play a few games at work when I just need a break I can lay in bed and play it. I can bring it with me anywhere

just because something is the most powerful does not make it the best

CiDeRmAn · 08-07-2017 2:03pm

I think he is not excluding the benefits of a high powered console, but rather what developers seem to choose to do with that power, which is relatively little.
Compare to the modestly powered Nintendo consoles of the past 10 years which have produced plenty of interesting and successful titles, without blindly following the previous years template.

Pac1Man · 08-07-2017 2:25pm

dunworth1 wrote: »

just because something is the most powerful does not make it the best

Never suggested it did, but can you imagine what Nintendo could create with more horsepower?!:eek:

This gen has been fairly weak in terms of evolution from the previous gen in terms of the AAA releases. Sure we have shinier visuals, greater draw distances and bigger worlds but the ethos has basically been a copy and paste job from before.

Then Zelda came along.

On a Wii U.

I can't even imagine what they could achieve with beefier hardware.

sligeach · 08-07-2017 2:34pm

Nintendo introduced HD Rumble as their innovation for their second attempt at this generation. I'm sure most people are salivating at the thought of its use in Super Mario Odyssey and the next Zelda Switch game.

And while I love BOTW's visuals, they went in large part with that style because a world of the scale with realistic graphics just wouldn't be possible on Nintendo hardware I believe.

pasta-solo · 08-07-2017 2:47pm

sligeach wrote: »

Nintendo introduced HD Rumble as their innovation for their second attempt at this generation. I'm sure most people are salivating at the thought of its use in Super Mario Odyssey and the next Zelda Switch game.

And while I love BOTW's visuals, they went in large part with that style because a world of the scale with realistic graphics just wouldn't be possible on Nintendo hardware I believe.

HD rumble is not the only selling point of the Switch. And who on earth would want a realistic looking Zelda game?

CiDeRmAn · 08-07-2017 3:06pm

sligeach wrote: »

Nintendo introduced HD Rumble as their innovation for their second attempt at this generation. I'm sure most people are salivating at the thought of its use in Super Mario Odyssey and the next Zelda Switch game.

You can't really be seriously trying to slip in this nonsense again?
Didn't we have this out already?
And say it was nonsense?

And while I love BOTW's visuals, they went in large part with that style because a world of the scale with realistic graphics just wouldn't be possible on Nintendo hardware I believe.

Well, by your own assessment, the game is a "port" from the WiiU, so it's hardly a reflection of what the Switch can do.

Besides, the other formats out there would be only too delighted to have the likes of BotW on their hardware.

Don't get so hung up on the visuals on other formats, and if you find them so impressive, why not skip the Switch that appears to be so disappointing, and buy a PS4 instead.

Then go over to the PS forum and see how they like your opinions on, say, the PS4 Pro... I'm sure they'd appreciate it.

Nintendo: General Discussion

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