Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

My proposal for a new football championship.

Options
  • 25-05-2016 12:06pm
    #1
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,003 ✭✭✭✭


    Adjus the provinces to be 4 regions, North, South, East, West.

    8 teams on each, include London but exclude NY and Kilkenny.

    Quarter finals, Semi finals and Finals in each, determined by open draw.

    Keep existing qualifier system.

    Pros
    All teams start at the same point, regional quarter final.
    No more teams from Ulster or Leinster having to at 3 games to get to the same point Connacht and Munster teams reach in 1 game.

    All losing teams enter qualifiers at correct point, no more preliminary winners being in the same 1st round draw as the teams they beat.

    Relatively less overhaul than a champions league type system would be.

    Cons
    Some people are very protective of these ancient geographical boundaries.
    But both Galway and Kerry are playing in the Leinster hurling championship and the world is still turning.


«1

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    HanaleiJ5N
    Closed Accounts Posts: 335 ✭✭HanaleiJ5N


    Very similar to what I would like myself. Not revolutionary but evens things out, 4 regions of 8 teams is an absolute no brainer with 32 teams. Can't imagine the provinces will ever be disbanded unfortunately, they are the main stumbling block towards change, but restructuring of the provinces into regions would make sense. (They would perhaps be more likely to vote for restructuring than they would be to vote for their abolition)

    I'd also introduce a B competition for the 16 teams that exit the first two rounds of the qualifiers. Straight knockout, four rounds, R1, quarters, semi and final. Producing a "Home 'B Champion", New York could be retained by hosting the overall "B Final" every year by hosting the Home champion to play off for the outright B championship.


  • Options
    #3
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,003 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    HanaleiJ5N wrote: »
    Very similar to what I would like myself. Not revolutionary but evens things out, 4 regions of 8 teams is an absolute no brainer with 32 teams. Can't imagine the provinces will ever be disbanded unfortunately, they are the main stumbling block towards change, but restructuring of the provinces into regions would make sense. (They would perhaps be more likely to vote for restructuring than they would be to vote for their abolition)

    I'd also introduce a B competition for the 16 teams that exit the first two rounds of the qualifiers. Straight knockout, four rounds, R1, quarters, semi and final. Producing a "Home 'B Champion", New York could be retained by hosting the overall "B Final" every year by hosting the Home champion to play off for the outright B championship.


    No, that would offer nothing.

    The Tommy Murphy cup has shown us that.

    When teams are knocked out they are knocked out, end of story, then can then get on with their own county competitions


  • Options
    #4
    RegisteredMice
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭RegisteredMice


    I agree with your analysis...having equal number of teams in each category would even things up. However, the one negative with this, in my opinion, is the fact various categories (for instance Leinster) would have the majority of teams playing at a poor level (exception Dublin), opposed to those games in the Ulster category.
    Teams going out getting trashed doesn't do the sport any good.
    I'll be boring and say the League should be our 'championship' and the provincial championship..should be something to be played in March/April, before the 'championship' begins.
    Good thinking though and I agree, secondary championships are nothing but a hindrance and benefits very little.


  • Options
    #5
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,003 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    RegisteredMice wrote: »
    I agree with your analysis...having equal number of teams in each category would even things up. However, the one negative with this, in my opinion, is the fact various categories (for instance Leinster) would have the majority of teams playing at a poor level (exception Dublin), opposed to those games in the Ulster category.
    Teams going out getting trashed doesn't do the sport any good.
    I'll be boring and say the League should be our 'championship' and the provincial championship..should be something to be played in March/April, before the 'League' begins.
    Good thinking though and I agree, secondary championships are nothing but a hindrance and benefits very little.

    My suggestion has nothing to do with levelling the playing field.

    If the likes of Meath and Kildare cannot do better than double digit losses to Dublin every year then that's their own problem to sort out.

    My suggestion is about sorting out the bizarre structure that we currently have when it comes to 4 uneven championships, without ripping the whole thing apart in one go.


  • Options
    #6
    HanaleiJ5N
    Closed Accounts Posts: 335 ✭✭HanaleiJ5N


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    [/b]

    No, that would offer nothing.

    The Tommy Murphy cup has shown us that.

    When teams are knocked out they are knocked out, end of story, then can then get on with their own county competitions

    It doesn't offer "nothing". It's not the same as the Tommy Murphy Cup.
    That was a competition that 8 counties were automatically assigned to at the start of the season. The B competition I propose would consist of 16 teams who neither got to a provincial (or regional) final nor could make it past round 2 of the qualifiers.

    Some smaller counties are on the one hand complaining that they don't get enough games, yet on the other hand they don't want a B championship. At least this way they would have the same chance as everyone else of avoiding the B competition as every team starts the team on the same level.

    The Tommy Murphy Cup basically told 8 teams "The only way you compete in the All-Ireland qualifiers/championship is by making it to a provincial final, lose before that and all you're left with is the Murphy Cup". Those counties didn't like that it shut them off from the main championship. My alteration allows them start in the main championship and only enter the secondary competition through failure in the primary competition. My way, they would not have the perceived unfairness of not being allowed enter the main competition.

    Plus, a trip to New York for the winner would be a nice prize for the home champion and it would allow a feasible and meaningful way to continue the inclusion of the New York team, providing them with a competitive mid-level opponent.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,003 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    HanaleiJ5N wrote: »
    It doesn't offer "nothing". It's not the same as the Tommy Murphy Cup.
    That was a competition that 8 counties were automatically assigned to at the start of the season. The B competition I propose would consist of 16 teams who neither got to a provincial (or regional) final nor could make it past round 2 of the qualifiers.

    Some smaller counties are on the one hand complaining that they don't get enough games, yet on the other hand they don't want a B championship. At least this way they would have the same chance as everyone else of avoiding the B competition as every team starts the team on the same level.

    The Tommy Murphy Cup basically told 8 teams "The only way you compete in the All-Ireland qualifiers/championship is by making it to a provincial final, lose before that and all you're left with is the Murphy Cup". Those counties didn't like that it shut them off from the main championship. My alteration allows them start in the main championship and only enter the secondary competition through failure in the primary competition. My way, they would not have the perceived unfairness of not being allowed enter the main competition.

    Plus, a trip to New York for the winner would be a nice prize for the home champion and it would allow a feasible and meaningful way to continue the inclusion of the New York team, providing them with a competitive mid-level opponent.

    But a multiple elimination situation in a mtiti tieted competition is BS.

    You lose a " regional " tie, you then go into the qualifiers, you lose that and then you go into another competition, and you are only eliminated from inter county football when you lose that.

    For counties where club football is most important then they don't need to be going through that rigmarole.

    Weaker counties can set their own goals, I.e. a "regional" tie win, or a qualifier win and work on that rather than then being forced into another far less rewarding competition after those goals have either been met or have fallen short

    And of I recall the Tommy Murphy cup was for teams who lost in the first and second round, only when Div 4 teams were excluded from the qualiers in 2007 did it change to what you are talking about.


  • Options
    #8
    Ceist_Beag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Ceist_Beag


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    My suggestion is about sorting out the bizarre structure that we currently have when it comes to 4 uneven championships, without ripping the whole thing apart in one go.

    The problem is your suggestion is ripping the whole thing apart! The Ulster championship is not something Ulster counties will agree to scrap - no chance. The best thing that can be done imho is along the lines of the McGuinness plan whereby the league and the provincial championships play into the AI series which is then split into a two tier competition. That way every county has an opportunity to qualify for the tier 1 AI series.
    The first thing I think the GAA need to look at in order to make it possible for any change in the structure of the AI series is to fix the calendar. It makes absolutely no sense to me that you have some counties start their bid early in May while others don't start until the middle of June. There is no good reason for not running off all first round qualifiers over a couple of weekends imho, same for second rounds. Once that is done it then frees up so much more time over the summer to consider changing the structure (such as the McGuinness proposal).


  • Options
    #9
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,003 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Ceist_Beag wrote: »
    The problem is your suggestion is ripping the whole thing apart! The Ulster championship is not something Ulster counties will agree to scrap - no chance. The best thing that can be done imho is along the lines of the McGuinness plan whereby the league and the provincial championships play into the AI series which is then split into a two tier competition. That way every county has an opportunity to qualify for the tier 1 AI series.
    The first thing I think the GAA need to look at in order to make it possible for any change in the structure of the AI series is to fix the calendar. It makes absolutely no sense to me that you have some counties start their bid early in May while others don't start until the middle of June. There is no good reason for not running off all first round qualifiers over a couple of weekends imho, same for second rounds. Once that is done it then frees up so much more time over the summer to consider changing the structure (such as the McGuinness proposal).

    But the Ulster championship will not be altered too much. It will be the northern championship and it will lose one team, possibly Donegal to the "West".

    People need to losen their idea that the provincial championships are so sacred


  • Options
    #10
    Ceist_Beag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Ceist_Beag


    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    But the Ulster championship will not be altered too much. It will be the northern championship and it will lose one team, possibly Donegal to the "West".
    Jaysus, I think you've just alienated the whole of Ulster with that remark, well done!
    Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »
    People need to losen their idea that the provincial championships are so sacred
    Let's just say I wholeheartedly disagree with you there!


  • Options
    #11
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Something similar was proposed before and got shot down. Makes logical sense so won't happen.

    Add 2 Leinster counties to Munster and 2 to Connacht. Don't know why you are picking on NY though!

    Ideally 1 of the Ulster counties should go into Leinster as Connacht is competitive enough.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    K-9 wrote: »
    Something similar was proposed before and got shot down. Makes logical sense so won't happen.

    Add 2 Leinster counties to Munster and 2 to Connacht. Don't know why you are picking on NY though!

    Ideally 1 of the Ulster counties should go into Leinster as Connacht is competitive enough.

    Let them have Donegal.


  • Options
    #13
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Cavan or Monaghan makes more sense rather than a Tyrone mans fear of getting beat by Donegal!

    Longford and Westmeath to Connacht, Carlow and Wexford to Munster.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Options
    #14
    Stephen Hero
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 33 ✭Stephen Hero


    Here is mine

    Leinster (force Kilkenny to compete)
    Munster
    Connacht (plus London and New York)
    Ulster

    Provincial championships run as normal.
    No back door.
    Winners of each province go to All Ireland Semi Final and pair off on a rotation basis
    i.e.
    Y1 M v L, U v C
    Y2 M v C, L v U
    Y3 M v U, L v C


  • Options
    #15
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    K-9 wrote: »
    Cavan or Monaghan makes more sense rather than a Tyrone mans fear of getting beat by Donegal!

    Longford and Westmeath to Connacht, Carlow and Wexford to Munster.

    They probably wouldn't have ye anyway! ;)

    I'll tell my missus that you suggested Cavan with their 37 Ulster titles join Leinster. She'll hunt you down!!


  • Options
    #16
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Stephen Hero wrote: »
    Here is mine

    Leinster (force Kilkenny to compete)
    Munster
    Connacht (plus London and New York)
    Ulster

    Provincial championships run as normal.
    No back door.
    Winners of each province go to All Ireland Semi Final and pair off on a rotation basis
    i.e.
    Y1 M v L, U v C
    Y2 M v C, L v U
    Y3 M v U, L v C

    So one game a year for 17 teams. That'll surely help interest build in the weaker counties.


  • Options
    #17
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    Jayop wrote: »
    So one game a year for 17 teams. That'll surely help interest build in the weaker counties.

    I don't think the existing 2 games a year for weaker counties is doing much to be fair either.

    Some of the bigger counties take the p*ss going through the back door. They might lose to a team in the Munster or Ulster championship and then beat them later and win an AI.

    The biggest losers are Provincial winners who lose in an AI quarter final. There's no second chance for them. Monaghan are a good example of a team that has suffered recently because of this.

    A champions league format of two groups of four at the quarter final stage would ensure high quality games and probably deliver the four strongest teams going into the semi final.


  • Options
    #18
    Stephen Hero
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 33 ✭Stephen Hero


    Jayop wrote: »
    So one game a year for 17 teams. That'll surely help interest build in the weaker counties.

    The league would still be in place.

    Four divisions called 1, 2, 3 and 4.

    Quarter finals

    1st Div 1 vs 1st Div 3
    2nd Div 1 vs 1st Div 4
    3rd Div 1 vs 1st Div 2
    4th Div 1 vs 2nd Div 2

    That's how it was like for years and it WORKED FINE.


  • Options
    #19
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    I don't think the existing 2 games a year for weaker counties is doing much to be fair either.

    Some of the bigger counties take the p*ss going through the back door. They might lose to a team in the Munster or Ulster championship and then beat them later and win an AI.

    The biggest losers are Provincial winners who lose in an AI quarter final. There's no second chance for them. Monaghan are a good example of a team that has suffered recently because of this.

    A champions league format of two groups of four at the quarter final stage would ensure high quality games and probably deliver the four strongest teams going into the semi final.

    You're right, 2 games don't help them either.

    For me the biggest problem most of the smaller counties (and some of the old big ones) face is getting the players to buy into all the work they have to do for months and month, give up so much of their life in their teens and twenties for 1 or 2 games a year. It's no wonder that they either piss of to the USA for the summer or put club first.

    Here's a post I made a few days ago in the AI thread with my plan for an intercounty year. Similar to the GPA one but with a few changes.
    Jayop wrote: »
    There are other solutions than a straight two tier system. All counties should start the summer in the championship at the same level and then tier off as teams progress or not.

    Do away with the preseason McKenna cup stuff. Have the league as is. Run the Provincials early and allow the provinces to decide how.

    Run the championship as a seeded draw with 8 groups and a team from each league division in each. This will give the league more importance because if you can be promoted from div 3 to 2 you'll get a much better draw in the championship.

    Have the top 1 team in each group go through, that's 8. Have the 2nd and 3rd trams play off in a seeded draw for the other 8 positions. Straight knock out after that.

    The 8 teams that came 4th and the 8 teams that lose the play off go into the second tier competition.

    That will give every team in the country at least 4 games in the summer and 24 will have at least 5. The league will have more meaning and the provinces can keep on rolling.

    No intercounty football in January.

    February starts with the League, exact same format it is now. Run that over the provincials. That's 7 games each with an extra 1 game for the 8 finalists.

    Start the provincials in March. Allow them to run off as is, so that's a maximum of 4 games unless there's a replay.

    Once the leagues are over start the championship as I stated. Use the league as seeding.
    • 8 groups of 4.
    • 8 winner go though.
    • 2nd and 3rd have a play off to go though.
    • 4th teams and losers of play off go into second tier competition.

    • So the 8 group winners have 3 group games and a quarter final.
    • The winners of the play off have the 3 group games, a play off and a quarter final.
    • The losers of the play off have 3 group games, a play off and a quarter final in the second tier comp.
    • The 4th placed team have 3 group games, and a quarter final in the second tier comp.

    So that's either 4 or 5 games for each county before teams start going out. That allows the worse teams to have something for their players to work for and to strive for. Guaranteed top level football. They will also have competitive games. Sure they'll generally get whipped in one game by the top seed but that happens in every sport.


  • Options
    #20
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Stephen Hero wrote: »
    The league would still be in place.

    Four divisions called 1, 2, 3 and 4.

    Quarter finals

    1st Div 1 vs 1st Div 3
    2nd Div 1 vs 1st Div 4
    3rd Div 1 vs 1st Div 2
    4th Div 1 vs 2nd Div 2

    That's how it was like for years and it WORKED FINE.

    The league isn't what were talking about. If you want counties like Galway to turn the tide of players refusing to line out then you need to offer them more than one game in the championship for them to give up their life for 5/10 years.


  • Options
    #21
    Stephen Hero
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 33 ✭Stephen Hero


    Jayop, fair play that's a good alternative

    Think the league should start in October though with December and January off.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Stephen Hero wrote: »
    Jayop, fair play that's a good alternative

    Think the league should start in October though with December and January off.

    Thanks. It's something I've been going on about for a long time. I don't think we need winter football at all if I'm honest. Even if one team was to get to the league, the province and the All Ireland final they'd still only play (bar replays) a maximum of 20 games. Surely between February and September we can fit those in. This year from Feb to the end of Sept there's 34 weekends.

    You've got 4 months off and still 14 weekends for club championships during the best part of the year for all counties. More for the counties who go out at 1/4 final stage.


  • Options
    #23
    Ceist_Beag
    Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭Ceist_Beag


    Jayop wrote: »
    You're right, 2 games don't help them either.

    For me the biggest problem most of the smaller counties (and some of the old big ones) face is getting the players to buy into all the work they have to do for months and month, give up so much of their life in their teens and twenties for 1 or 2 games a year. It's no wonder that they either piss of to the USA for the summer or put club first.

    Here's a post I made a few days ago in the AI thread with my plan for an intercounty year. Similar to the GPA one but with a few changes.



    No intercounty football in January.

    February starts with the League, exact same format it is now. Run that over the provincials. That's 7 games each with an extra 1 game for the 8 finalists.

    Start the provincials in March. Allow them to run off as is, so that's a maximum of 4 games unless there's a replay.

    Once the leagues are over start the championship as I stated. Use the league as seeding.
    • 8 groups of 4.
    • 8 winner go though.
    • 2nd and 3rd have a play off to go though.
    • 4th teams and losers of play off go into second tier competition.

    • So the 8 group winners have 3 group games and a quarter final.
    • The winners of the play off have the 3 group games, a play off and a quarter final.
    • The losers of the play off have 3 group games, a play off and a quarter final in the second tier comp.
    • The 4th placed team have 3 group games, and a quarter final in the second tier comp.

    So that's either 4 or 5 games for each county before teams start going out. That allows the worse teams to have something for their players to work for and to strive for. Guaranteed top level football. They will also have competitive games. Sure they'll generally get whipped in one game by the top seed but that happens in every sport.

    Isn't that pretty much the Jim McGuinness proposal Jayop?


  • Options
    #24
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,003 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Jayop wrote: »
    You're right, 2 games don't help them either.

    For me the biggest problem most of the smaller counties (and some of the old big ones) face is getting the players to buy into all the work they have to do for months and month, give up so much of their life in their teens and twenties for 1 or 2 games a year. It's no wonder that they either piss of to the USA for the summer or put club first.

    Here's a post I made a few days ago in the AI thread with my plan for an intercounty year. Similar to the GPA one but with a few changes.



    No intercounty football in January.

    February starts with the League, exact same format it is now. Run that over the provincials. That's 7 games each with an extra 1 game for the 8 finalists.

    Start the provincials in March. Allow them to run off as is, so that's a maximum of 4 games unless there's a replay.

    Once the leagues are over start the championship as I stated. Use the league as seeding.
    • 8 groups of 4.
    • 8 winner go though.
    • 2nd and 3rd have a play off to go through.
    • 4th teams and losers of play off go into second tier competition.

    • So the 8 group winners have 3 group games and a quarter final.
    • The winners of the play off have the 3 group games, a play off and a quarter final.
    • The losers of the play off have 3 group games, a play off and a quarter final in the second tier comp.
    • The 4th placed team have 3 group games, and a quarter final in the second tier comp.

    So that's either 4 or 5 games for each county before teams start going out. That allows the worse teams to have something for their players to work for and to strive for. Guaranteed top level football. They will also have competitive games. Sure they'll generally get whipped in one game by the top seed but that happens in every sport.

    Why the playoff for 2nd ?
    A team already has come second so why complicate things.

    An alternative championship has to be simple rather than complicated.


  • Options
    #25
    Fr Tod Umptious
    Registered Users Posts: 15,003 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Stephen Hero wrote: »
    Here is mine

    Leinster (force Kilkenny to compete)
    Munster
    Connacht (plus London and New York)
    Ulster

    Provincial championships run as normal.
    No back door.
    Winners of each province go to All Ireland Semi Final and pair off on a rotation basis
    i.e.
    Y1 M v L, U v C
    Y2 M v C, L v U
    Y3 M v U, L v C

    Yea worked well for over a century, but it has its flaws.
    Primarily that the provinces are uneven, a Connacht or Munster team can win an AI with 4 games, whereas it could take a Leinster or Ulster team as much as 6.

    The back door was brought it to give teams another game rather than being knoceput in May or June.
    And it has been a success, under this system we have seen the likes of Fermanagh and Wexford get to All Ireland Semi Finals, and other smaller teams like Limerick get as far as the quarter finals, allowing them to play a championship game in Croke Park for the first time.

    The argument can be made that it allows strong teams who have a bad day to regroup, or that it diminishes the value of the provincial championship.

    But since 2011 the above had not been the case, from 2011 to 2015 only twice has a non provincial champion got to a semi final, and on both ocassions that was Tyrone beating Monaghan in a quarter.
    Teams that are serious about winning an All Ireland know that winning the provincial is better for them than a trip through the qualifier.


  • Options
    #26
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    You have to admire players from lesser counties who line out every summer knowing they will probably never play in Croke Park or reach an AI final. They keep going regardless and yes they definitely deserve to be part of the Championship.

    As it stands there are just too many meaningless games in the championship, many of them for local bragging rights only. If you go back 10 years ago, you had in Leinster alone teams like Meath, Kildare, Westmeath, Dublin, Laois and possibly Wexford on a good day who could challenge for Sam. In Ulster there was Armagh, Tyrone and one or two others. Munster had Cork and Kerry and Connacht had Mayo and possibly Galway.

    Today there's only about 3 or 4 who could genuinely challenge, the rest are just canon fodder or way off the mark.


  • Options
    #27
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Ceist_Beag wrote: »
    Isn't that pretty much the Jim McGuinness proposal Jayop?

    A little different


  • Options
    #28
    Stoner
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    Jayop wrote:
    A little different

    Jim McGuinness with a twist


  • Options
    #29
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Stoner wrote: »
    Jim McGuinness with a twist

    Oh God, for a Tyrone man that's a hard one to swallow. :D

    I'll try to pull up McGuiness's proposal and see what differences there actually was to mine.


  • Options
    #30
    Jayop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    OK, so I'm going by the article in the Times last year and I'll try to sort the McGuinness proposal into a shorter version to compare them.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jim-mcguinness-how-i-would-reinvigorate-football-championship-1.2241993
    McGuinness wrote:
    1) Immediate two tier championship based on league, Division 1&2 play for Sam, Division 3&4 play for 2nd competition.
    2) Teams 1-11 are straight into AI, 12-16 are dependent on one of the bottom 32 teams not winning their province. If you're ranked outside the top 16 and win your province then you get into the top 16.
    3) Team ranked 1 plays team ranked 16 and so on. (IMO this will lead to all but 1 or 2 of the first round games being hammerings)
    4) Both competitions run on a straight KO basis so if you lose your first game you're out.
    5) 8 teams will play only 1 AI game. 16 teams play none. 8 teams only play 1 secondary game.
    6) He wants to play the Provincials over a much shorter time frame. 4/5 1st round games in each over 1 weekend.

    And here's mine by comparison. In truth and on reflection they are actually vastly different and mine is much closer to that proposed by the GPA although I wouldn't have lost the provinces like they suggested.
    Jayop wrote:
    No intercounty football in January.

    February starts with the League, exact same format it is now. Run that over the provincials. That's 7 games each with an extra 1 game for the 8 finalists.

    Start the provincials in March. Allow them to run off as is, so that's a maximum of 4 games unless there's a replay.

    Once the leagues are over start the championship as I stated. Use the league as seeding.
    8 groups of 4.
    8 winner go though.
    2nd and 3rd have a play off to go through.
    4th teams and losers of play off go into second tier competition.

    So the 8 group winners have 3 group games and a quarter final.
    The winners of the play off have the 3 group games, a play off and a quarter final.
    The losers of the play off have 3 group games, a play off and a quarter final in the second tier comp.
    The 4th placed team have 3 group games, and a quarter final in the second tier comp.

    So that's either 4 or 5 games for each county before teams start going out. That allows the worse teams to have something for their players to work for and to strive for. Guaranteed top level football. They will also have competitive games. Sure they'll generally get whipped in one game by the top seed but that happens in every sport.

    For me Jim's proposal falls down in several areas very badly.

    1) 16 teams start the summer out of the All-Ireland and no matter how many times people say it, there's no graw for starting in a secondary competition. Everyone should start in the hunt for Sam and the top boys should peel off as they progress.

    2) 16 playing 1 and 15 playing 2 etc, will not solve the problem of hammerings in the championship which is the whole reason for change anyway I thought. Would Dublin V Laois or Kerry V Armagh be any better spectacle than what we already have in the early rounds?

    3) Running the provinces over a weekend would be a disaster. I'd say a fair percentage of the crowd at a lot of provincial games is neutrals who go to lots of games. Running 5 games over a weekend would force them to pick one or two games to go to.

    4) And this is the big one. Feck all summer football. Only 8 teams will have more than 1 game in the proper All-Ireland series. Surely that's the last thing we want.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Stoner
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 10,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stoner


    I was more referring to the Royal Family Christmas edition where they had a cup of soup with a twist for starters at the Christmas dinner, the twist was it was in a bowl.

    I didn't really know the difference between the proposals, but I do now.
    I do like your suggestions. Anything that gives more games.

    Winning the second competition would guarantee a spot in the top competition the next year.??


Advertisement