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Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

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    #92
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,142 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Berserker wrote: »
    I'm a pro Brexit and I don't want anything from them. Most pro-Brexit people I know feel the same way. The politicians, both EU and British, are holding things up because they don't want to be the ones who pull the trigger. If Brexit is a disaster, it's the end of the British politicians, if it succeeds, the EU is in big trouble.

    How would it succeed? Examples and specifics please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #93
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Thread is going way off topic, look, one of the main reasons the British are still in the EU is because of their cuck prime minister.

    Yeah, the use of that one word is enough to disregard any empty argument you're going to come out with...


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    #94
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,267 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    source wrote: »
    Graham Hughes's PUBCAST | Why Do Brits Think The EU Is Their Enemy:

    https://youtu.be/f5Ve7kbLoAo

    Those headlines are incredible... :D

    It's just a pity such hilarious nonsense has such serious consequences. Plenty of mindless idiots incapable of critical thinking out there to swallow it up willingly.


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    #95
    Auguste Comte
    Registered Users Posts: 1,143 ✭✭✭Auguste Comte


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Referendum results & politicians actions

    48.1% of voters didn't want brexit at all, I don't think is fair to say that every single person who voted for Brexit don't want anything from Europe or support a no deal brexit, especially when you concider the way it was sold to them with falsehoods and lies.


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    #96
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Wrong, it's the end of the Tory/DUP stranglehold.

    For the time being but they'll be back. The alternative, Labour, are a sorry shower and they wont last long in government. The DUP has a strong identity, so they'll always be around. At an individual level, the politicians involved will be finished and that comes before country or the EU.


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    #97
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I'm sure the majority of people in Britain who voted for Brexit ie the majority are thinking we voted for Brexit why are the immigrants still here scrounging off our system. You can't have a remainer in Theresa May trying to negotiate a deal which she didn't even want in the first place.

    Despite voting for Brexit the UK still signed the UN migration pact. They need a true nationalist leader to be able to pull off Brexit someone like Salvini in Italy but they're getting what they deserve for continuing to vote for the Tories and Labour.

    What immigrants would that be. EU immigrants that are still in Britain because Britain wants the same rights for their citizens in the EU.
    Or non EU immigrants which have nothing to do with Brexit.
    It is non sensical arguments like this which caused Brexit in the first place.
    I don't mind a different opinion but one based on facts


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    #98
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    How would it succeed? Examples and specifics please.

    You do realise that there are a number of countries around the world who are not in the EU and they are doing very well for themselves? The UK can sign new trade deals, the US, Canada & Aus are standing in the wings already and every country in the world will want to do business with them given the size of their economy. Take a look at the non-EU countries in central Europe and Scandanavia, as examples. What do you make of them?


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    #99
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,142 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Berserker wrote: »
    You do realise that there are a number of countries around the world who are not in the EU and they are doing very well for themselves? The UK can sign new trade deals, the US, Canada & Aus are standing in the wings already and every country in the world will want to do business with them given the size of their economy. Take a look at the non-EU countries in central Europe and Scandanavia, as examples. What do you make of them?

    You mean Norway which is in the Single Market and Customs union? Excellent example.

    US, Canada and Australia are not standing in the wings. That's simply not true.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #100
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    Berserker wrote: »
    You do realise that there are a number of countries around the world who are not in the EU and they are doing very well for themselves? The UK can sign new trade deals, the US, Canada & Aus are standing in the wings already and every country in the world will want to do business with them given the size of their economy. Take a look at the non-EU countries in central Europe and Scandanavia, as examples. What do you make of them?

    The most important trade deal the British will need to negotiate post Brexit is with the EU their major trading partner.
    They already trade with US and Canada as part of EU trade deals. Why would you imagine they will get better conditions now. They will be a much smaller entity.


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    #101
    Popeleo
    Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭Popeleo


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    You mean Norway which is in the Single Market and Customs union? Excellent example.

    US, Canada and Australia are not standing in the wings. That's simply not true.

    Maybe he meant Switzerland, Iceland or Liechtenstein. But they are all in the EEA along with Norway, so de facto in the Single Market.


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    #102
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    You mean Norway which is in the Single Market and Customs union? Excellent example.

    US, Canada and Australia are not standing in the wings. That's simply not true.

    Canada has already come out and said it won't roll over EU trade deal for UK, the Brexit vote occurred at a time of strengthening EU-Australian trade relations and the US has made rumblings of major concessions being needed from the UK including access to the NHS so Britain is going to find itself in a very weak position. Trade deals can take decades to complete and in the meantime the UK is going to be floundering.


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    #103
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,267 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Popeleo wrote: »
    Maybe he meant Switzerland, Iceland or Liechtenstein. But they are all in the EEA along with Norway, so de facto in the Single Market.

    Switzerland is not actually in the EEA but through a whole gamut of bi-lateral agreements they are effectively in the single market

    Best of luck nailing those agreements down Britain after you've reneged on 50 years' worth of treaties and diplomatic commitments.


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    #104
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Show, with examples, how I am incorrect please?


    You said that you could "go on"

    Honestly, it is hard to find specific examples without having been sat at the negotiation table and I know better that to try reason with a Europhile like yourself. Look, all you have to do is look at the actions of the people in charge. They publicly state that they do not want Britian to leave (both the EU and British PM) and surprise surprise they have not left. Neither of them done what their constituents democratically told them to do. It is essential that this authoritarian regime crumbles. You know they want an army dont you?


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    #105
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Berserker wrote: »
    I'm a pro Brexit and I don't want anything from them. Most pro-Brexit people I know feel the same way. The politicians, both EU and British, are holding things up because they don't want to be the ones who pull the trigger. If Brexit is a disaster, it's the end of the British politicians, if it succeeds, the EU is in big trouble.

    I could see it succeed for 1 of 2 reasons alone...

    1: The US wants the EU to fail
    2: Russia wants the EU to fail


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    #106
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,267 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    But of course - I forgot about balls


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    #107
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,644 ✭✭✭storker


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    If the EU are so perfect then why do the British want to leave?
    1. Lies and propaganda by UK hacks and politicians
    2. English superiority complex
    3. Brexiteers can't handle the idea of a union of nations...unless they're forcing it on someone themselves.


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    #108
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    You got me with Bush :o but Obama is a pussey & scumbag.


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    #109
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Berserker


    joe40 wrote: »
    The most important trade deal the British will need to negotiate post Brexit is with the EU their major trading.

    That's a short term view. If Brexit is a success the EU will fall apart. You need to look to the future not the present. The deals with the likes of the US are the important deals. The others will follow suit from there. The US trade deals is pretty much done, I suspect. The media stories regarding the NHS being on the table a while back were released for a reason.


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    #110
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Honestly, it is hard to find specific examples without having been sat at the negotiation table and I know better that to try reason with a Europhile like yourself. Look, all you have to do is look at the actions of the people in charge. They publicly state that they do not want Britian to leave (both the EU and British PM) and surprise surprise they have not left. Neither of them done what their constituents democratically told them to do. It is essential that this authoritarian regime crumbles. You know they want an army dont you?

    So you are making stuff up?
    Glad we got that cleared up


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    #111
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    You got me with Bush :o but Obama is a pussey & scumbag.

    Your standard of debate is mediocre.


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    #112
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,267 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Your standard of debate is mediocre.

    that's generous


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    #113
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,517 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Your standard of debate is mediocre.

    It's non-existent.


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    #114
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,644 ✭✭✭storker


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    , Trump is banging at measuring their door.

    FYP


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    #115
    Popeleo
    Registered Users Posts: 422 ✭✭Popeleo


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Switzerland is not actually in the EEA but through a whole gamut of bi-lateral agreements they are effectively in the single market

    Best of luck nailing those agreements down Britain after you've reneged on 50 years' worth of treaties and diplomatic commitments.


    Correct. i mixed up the EEA with EFTA, which Switzerland is a member of. And like you say, trying to emulate the bilateral agreements used by the EU and Switzerland would be a non-starter for the diplomatically-impaired UK.


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    #116
    source
    Registered Users Posts: 5,267 ✭✭✭source


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    You got me with Bush :o but Obama is a pussey & scumbag.

    putin-crying.jpg


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    #117
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,231 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Your standard of debate is mediocre.

    Generous.


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    #118
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Your standard of debate is mediocre.

    There is a reason why I put Obama first. I could have waited to post the Bush one until after he called Obama a pussy.

    I was about to lamp in the Putin one but Source went straight for the jugular


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    #119
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,977 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I fully understand the OPs frustration.

    Its dragging on and will likely drag on again past Oct 31st.

    We know its going to hurt, but the sooner we can get it over and done with, take the pain then try to get back to a normal working environment (however long that may take), the better.

    Of course some see it as the longer its pushed out, better the chance of it never happening, but I think some form of it has to happen as it was a democratic vote by the Brits and it has to be seen to be done.

    While we are ar$ing around with delays, we are all in limbo.


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    #120
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    NIMAN wrote: »
    I fully understand the OPs frustration.

    Its dragging on and will likely drag on again past Oct 31st.

    We know its going to hurt, but the sooner we can get it over and done with, take the pain then try to get back to a normal working environment (however long that may take), the better.

    Of course some see it as the longer its pushed out, better the chance of it never happening, but I think some form of it has to happen as it was a democratic vote by the Brits and it has to be seen to be done.

    While we are ar$ing around with delays, we are all in limbo.


    They are waiting for someone to push the real "Red Button" of a referendum, on the WA Vs Remain.


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    #121
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Berserker wrote: »
    That's a short term view. If Brexit is a success the EU will fall apart. You need to look to the future not the present. The deals with the likes of the US are the important deals. The others will follow suit from there. The US trade deals is pretty much done, I suspect. The media stories regarding the NHS being on the table a while back were released for a reason.

    A US trade deal simply cannot fill the hole left behind from leaving the EU. Surely you know this is a nonsensical argument.
    “We do three times as much trade with the EU than the US because it is closer and there is regulatory alignment,” said Alan Winters, director of the UK Trade Policy Observatory at Sussex University. “Even if we had regulatory alignment with the US, the distance factor would still mean we would do less trade.”

    So to compensate for any fall in UK-EU trade, UK-US trade would have to grow by a much bigger proportion. If Britain’s imports and exports to the bloc dropped 10 per cent, it would require a 37 per cent increase in trade with the US.

    Sam Lowe, senior research fellow at the Centre for European Reform, said it was “nonsensical” to argue there could be a big enough surge in US-UK trade to make up such a gap because London and Washington do not envisage a free trade agreement remotely as deep as the EU single market.

    “We are hugely integrated in the EU economy and for any US deal, the most we are looking at is tariff reduction,” he said. Other motors of trade such as common standards and regulatory alignment would be much less touched by any US-UK agreement.

    A 2018 cross-Whitehall study of the costs and benefits of Brexit estimated that a US free trade agreement would increase UK GDP by only 0.2 per cent after 15 years, a tiny fraction of the 2 to 8 per cent costs of Brexit during that time.

    Read the full article below for a bit of enlightenment.

    https://www.ft.com/content/40d74c90-85e5-11e9-97ea-05ac2431f453


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