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Third Irish forestry fund.

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭antietam1


    I have given up on you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    I'm not sinking money into another speculative investment! :D

    Seriously though, the maximum effect possible from a legal action would be to cast a cloud of doubt over the directors and the way they moved from IFF to Veon, there will be no scope for financial recompence unless there's an angle that I currently cannot see.


  • Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭antietam1


    Well you practically called me a fool for predicting all this, so I'm not interested in you opinion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Grand, take out your frustrations on someone else.

    The lack of traffic on this and the Investment forum thread probably tells it's own tale


  • Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭legend99


    As a sore third fund shareholder, I'd be willing to get involved. Not necessarily because the investment tanked - that was always a risk. But because of the sale itself - and because the statements in the original article back in May, allegedly appear to me at least, to have been misleading.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭antietam1


    Not frustrations it's the wife and sons who have the shares, anyway we have been told not to engage each other


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Grand, take out your frustrations on someone else.

    The lack of traffic on this and the Investment forum thread probably tells it's own tale
    Feck off Harry :pac:

    About half that traffic is mods trying to figure out wtf is going on.:D


  • Registered Users Posts: 53 ✭✭iriship


    i am in "forth fund"

    the money we invest was to acquire the land and it was to be sold with trees


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 Electroneum


    Would anyone have a copy of the letter that we received a few months ago telling us that a deal for sale had been agreed at a strong or compelling level ?

    I know that I for one relaxed at that stage and did not inquire further as to the price assuming that the offer was too good to turn down, leading me to believe that my fund would possibly compound at say 10% ( rather than the 14% plus that was originally quoted as this was now because it was 9 years before maturity ).

    Had I known then that my fund would only result in a compound return of approx 3.5% over 21 years, I would have had the opportunity to see if it would have been possible to prevent the sale going forward.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,398 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    The askaboutmoney thread linked above has contemporaneous advice - from the late 1990s - expressing extreme scepticism. Everything that has happened was predicted on that thread. Warnings about the non-voting share structure, the related party ‘forest management’, the potential ponzi nature of the expanding number of funds.

    Nothing was hidden, but the plans were oversubscribed, such was the hubris of the Celtic Tiger years. The lads knew they’d get away with this after getting away with the poor returns accrued to the first tranche of funds maturing in the past couple of years (bar the first, which was arguably engineered to show as-advertised performance, as IFF/IFS/‘Veon’ was struggling with low demand for the newer funds it was still creating at the time).

    It all stinks, but I don’t see much of a case here. Ethical breach yes, illegality probably not. Either way it’s a stitch-up, and we are the mugs.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,610 ✭✭✭✭okidoki987


    It all stinks, but I don’t see much of a case here. Ethical breach yes, illegality probably not. Either way it’s a stitch-up, and we are the mugs.

    If the assets were sold without disclosing the price paid, I think that should ring alarm bells as what makes an offer, an attractive offer and in whose eyes is it attractive (certainly not to the shareholders)?
    If the funds were only making 3% instead of around 12% p.a. why would anybody believe the decision to sell them was a good decision,
    apart from the directors?

    Many investments fail for many reasons.
    Here we have an investment that didn't fail, it just didn't meet the projections of the vendors.
    One reason they didn't make the projected returns is that they didn't wait for the full term.
    There are many questions that will need to be answered by Paul Brosnan when returns from holidays (which was good timing)!

    The same person said about the sale "this is a very positive development for our 12,400 shareholders, with the portfolio’s value and returns serving as a strong endorsement of the Irish forestry and timber sector”.

    Wonder how many of the 12,400 would agree with those words?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17 IrForestryQ


    Is it possible for the shareholders to request a copy of the contract deal that veon made with AXA?

    I believe it really should be disclosed to us


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 Spain Calling


    antietam1 wrote: »
    Ok add my Mrs to this mass class action suit, lets throw some chum in the water and see if we get a get a lawyer feeding frenzy going.

    Make contact with Lar Sheeran


  • Registered Users Posts: 173 ✭✭cheapskate


    Hi, I just posted a lengthy post and I don't know what happened to it.

    I had 4 shares in the third fund, I was annoyed on hearing the news that they were considering selling the funds.

    I emailed Mr Brosnan and shared my annoyance, especially that it would only be now in the last few years that the fund would be realising it's true potential. He responded to tell me that with the looming brexit and the US/China trade war there was uncertainty and that in the past shareholders had wanted to sell and couldn't. Also that they had secured a good deal for us, I disagreed but still thought (naively) that he was acting in our best interest.

    I searched online and found this thread and the 'Ask about money' forum which led me to the belief that something dodgy was going on. That at the very least, questions needed answers!

    Lar Sheeran on the other forum has engaged a QFM to investigate these actions and is looking for shareholders to contact him if you want to add your name to the list, I have and I implore you to contact larsheeran@gmail.com to add your weight, together we may force them to answer for their actions. An email doesn't cost anything, if there's enough of us we may be able to get the governing bodies to take on the investigation.
    Lar Sheeran asked me to put up his contact details, he is on the 'ask about money' forum.
    Thank you.
    CS


  • Registered Users Posts: 350 ✭✭antietam1


    cheapskate wrote: »
    Hi, I just posted a lengthy post and I don't know what happened to it.

    I had 4 shares in the third fund, I was annoyed on hearing the news that they were considering selling the funds.

    I emailed Mr Brosnan and shared my annoyance, especially that it would only be now in the last few years that the fund would be realising it's true potential. He responded to tell me that with the looming brexit and the US/China trade war there was uncertainty and that in the past shareholders had wanted to sell and couldn't. Also that they had secured a good deal for us, I disagreed but still thought (naively) that he was acting in our best interest.

    I searched online and found this thread and the 'Ask about money' forum which led me to the belief that something dodgy was going on. That at the very least, questions needed answers!

    Lar Sheeran on the other forum has engaged a QFM to investigate these actions and is looking for shareholders to contact him if you want to add your name to the list, I have and I implore you to contact larsheeran@gmail.com to add your weight, together we may force them to answer for their actions. An email doesn't cost anything, if there's enough of us we may be able to get the governing bodies to take on the investigation.
    Lar Sheeran asked me to put up his contact details, he is on the 'ask about money' forum.
    Thank you.
    CS
    Will do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2 TreeFellers


    FYI from askaboutmoney:

    Irishforestryactionclaim.com
    We are growing faster than the trees!!!
    Lar Sheeran


  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭MikeSoys


    just wondering after forestry clearfell , is there a new premium to avail? of like when you planted the first time.. can find any info on it.. thk


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭99nsr125


    MikeSoys wrote: »
    just wondering after forestry clearfell , is there a new premium to avail? of like when you planted the first time.. can find any info on it.. thk

    No

    Premium is only paid in first few years


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    99nsr125 wrote: »
    No

    Premium is only paid in first few years

    First 20 years for this fund ......


  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭MikeSoys


    99nsr125 wrote: »
    No

    Premium is only paid in first few years

    really thats a bumber.. i guess there thinking about it...introducing it? they dont speak of this issue when looking for farmers for planting ..


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  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭timfromtang


    MikeSoys wrote: »
    just wondering after forestry clearfell , is there a new premium to avail? of like when you planted the first time.. can find any info on it.. thk




    Hi All,
    In my humble opinion it is not wise to clearfell.
    In my humble opinion only a very stupid man would cut down his trees before they have had babies.
    There is information on how to manage this by spreading out your felling over time and space for those who will look.
    tim.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,829 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    Hi All,
    In my humble opinion it is not wise to clearfell.
    In my humble opinion only a very stupid man would cut down his trees before they have had babies.
    There is information on how to manage this by spreading out your felling over time and space for those who will look.
    tim.

    Can continuous cover forestry work with Sitka, or would it prevent the big machinery from operating.


  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭timfromtang


    Can continuous cover forestry work with Sitka, or would it prevent the big machinery from operating.


    See Sitka Spruce in Ireland, Padraic M Joyce, Niall OCarroll Coford, pages 40, 42,43 on the subject of regeneration,,,
    as good a place to start as any.....




    tim


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 Lar Sheeran


    Hi all,
    Irish Forestry Action Association Ltd., has been set up to fight the wrongful sale of the 18 forestry funds,
    The legal firm, Mathesons, one of the big 5 are the firm handling the legal side,
    Lar Sheeran is one of the Directors,


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    Are you Lar?


  • Registered Users Posts: 20 mikecb


    Is there anyone out there who need to have their out of date cheques reissued or who have already had one reissued by the liquidator


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 VinnyO


    I ONLY HEARD FUND WAS SOLD & I NEVER RECEIVED ANY CHEQUE


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 vmsignup


    Hi all,
    Irish Forestry Action Association Ltd., has been set up to fight the wrongful sale of the 18 forestry funds,
    The legal firm, Mathesons, one of the big 5 are the firm handling the legal side,
    Lar Sheeran is one of the Directors,

    According to Courts.ie an affidavit was filed on 27 of May by Lar Sheeran by Gore & Grimes Solicitors; and it was listed for Chancery Court 6 today 13 July 2020; any update on how this is progressing?

    Case details are SECOND IRISH FORESTRY FUND PLC [IN LIQUIDATION] & ORS -V- COMPANIES ACT 2020/155 COS


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 Lar Sheeran


    To all of the 12,500 who invested in the Irish Forestry Funds,
    We have set up Irish Forestry Action Association Ltd and have commenced High Court action for the re instatment of our investments,600 have joined so far
    Lar Sheeran, Richard Mulcahy and Aisling murphy head up the team


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4 vmsignup


    Hi Lar,

    I was an investor in a number of the funds and was disappointed in the return that was made versus the return that was projected. I believe one of the problems with the funds was the lack of transparency, and while I consider should I join action with other investors, I would need to have fuller information.

    Neither the post here, nor on AskAboutMoney nor on the website Irish Forestry Action Claim give me any details of what is proposed. I understand you will not want to publish your legal advice to a public forum as it may hamper the legal action you are taking; but information already filed with the courts could be posted?

    Specifically the questions I have are ...
    1. What is the cost to an investor to join this action? Does it depend on the number of shares held in each fund or is it a once off cost?
    2. Do the funds raised by the investors cover all legal costs, or just enough to file the original motion? Or is the solicitors firm operating on a no foal no fee basis?
    3. The initial post said one of the big five solicitor firms was taking the case, but a different solicitors firm is listed on the action? As the name of the big five solicitor was used to provide assurance that there was a case for action, how should the change of solicitor be interpreted or does it make no difference?
    4. What remedy is sought and from whom? If the funds are in liquidation and the claim is successful, who will make a good on the award?
    5. What is the likely timeline for a final court decision to be made - is this a commercial case in excess of 1m and a speedy process is expected or could this go on for years?
    6. If I don't join the action, will I be asked by the liquidator to return what little I have got on my original investment in the event of your claim being successful?
    7. If I don't join the action, will I benefit from your claim being successful?
    8. 600 investors out of 12500 is less than 5% of the investors; does it represent the same by value or are these the larger 600 investors?

    I appreciate you may not be able to answer some of these questions, but I think given the lack of transparency in the original investment I would need to see a lot more transparency before I would commit good money after bad.


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