CCTV

Lex Luthor · 11-05-2020 7:20am #1

Any suggestions for a wired home security camera?

I have no issue with running a power wire for this one, just going to be at the front of the house under the canopy

I might upgrade later to the rear with a wireless camera, so if there is a manufacturer that you can integrate both into the same hub and app that would be great

Would prefer 1080p and maybe cloud storage
Thanks

altor · 14-05-2020 9:32pm

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Any suggestions for a wired home security camera?

I have no issue with running a power wire for this one, just going to be at the front of the house under the canopy

I might upgrade later to the rear with a wireless camera, so if there is a manufacturer that you can integrate both into the same hub and app that would be great

Would prefer 1080p and maybe cloud storage
Thanks

Wired is always better.
Have a look at the HIK ColorVu.
Colour at night even in pitch dark.

Lex Luthor · 15-05-2020 7:39am

ya looking at a POE system

what about this? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hikvision-Vision-Outdoor-DVR-Security/dp/B0751JRKK1/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1S2FH4JT8E6IR&dchild=1&keywords=hikvision%2Bcolourvu%2B4k&qid=1589525626&sprefix=hikvision%2Bc%2Caps%2C143&sr=8-1&th=1

machiavellianme · 15-05-2020 7:47am

I second altor's HIK colorvu suggestion. They're a fantastic camera with an inbuilt SDXC card slot and incredible night views - work best if you have any streetlight etc but the supplementary white light also helps. They really blow my old HIK darkfighters out of the water!

Lex Luthor · 15-05-2020 7:57am

this one is colour but for a lot less than a HIK colour unit

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07CQLB8HS/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07CQLB8HS&pd_rd_w=p64Kt&pf_rd_p=91bac49e-c2d1-4227-b6bc-b47dfda352fe&pd_rd_wg=ameQk&pf_rd_r=G9CQJ4MWHJ6XZ7Z6ECF1&pd_rd_r=df8f63b8-ad3c-4d0b-8369-53ec8b88ac38&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFCWTM3N1RVTTlVR1omZW5jcnlwdGVkSWQ9QTAwNjgxNTczR1lGWlFNVkFMR0VOJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA4NDE5NzEzU0ZNRjRJQkNKNTEwJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsX3RoZW1hdGljJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

machiavellianme · 15-05-2020 8:20am

So is 95% of the market. Most is cheap Chinese crap.
There's no mention of Lux anywhere on that page so no idea how to gauge minimum lighting.
Ditto for F number which dictates the amount of light entering the aperture.
It's a fairly standard size CMOS sensor so I suspect it won't be a patch on the HIK.
That doesn't look like night time colour to me and is definitely IR supported.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, just that you get what you pay for.

There's lots of things to consider with cctv cameras, including lens size (smaller 2.8mm and 4mm have wider views but appear further away), style (domes and bullets - pick a turret!), IR or white light etc. You should read up before you commit to anything. One tip is that insects love IR. You'll have hundreds of flies at night triggering false alarms and spiders building webs as a result. That was my main reason for going turret (harder for webs to stick) and moving away from IR support overnight.

Lex Luthor · 15-05-2020 6:40pm

is it possible to mix the HIKvision products to make up a system?

ie. buying a specific NVR and then get different cameras to add to it

I'm on a limited budget so would like to have at least 1x Color cam like the Colorvu mentioned but have 3x B&W elsewhere

The higher spec camera would be in the most important location

machiavellianme · 16-05-2020 12:18am

Lex Luthor wrote: »

is it possible to mix the HIKvision products to make up a system?

ie. buying a specific NVR and then get different cameras to add to it

I'm on a limited budget so would like to have at least 1x Color cam like the Colorvu mentioned but have 3x B&W elsewhere

The higher spec camera would be in the most important location

Absolutely, you can mix and match as long as you stick to the same technology. Go Poe or coax, not both. Poe has more options available, but coax being older tech is cheaper. You don't necessarily need an nvr from the outset either. You can use sd cards and/or a cloud service. Also, if you do get an nvr, check it can accommodate as many cameras and the resolution you need. Some can have 8 cameras but only if they are 2 or 3 Megapixel. If you want 8k uhd then you might only get one or two cameras supported by your nvr due to disk write speeds. Typically the high resolution cameras are great in daylight but suffer at night unless very high end. I find 3-4MP the sweet spot at the moment. Keep an eye on ebay, I picked up all my kit slowly over months but at about 75% of the price, even brand new. The one thing I have learned is that every year there's a better model so just move that to the most important location and move all the others around accordingly like you suggested.

Lex Luthor · 16-05-2020 9:22am

machiavellianme wrote: »

Absolutely, you can mix and match as long as you stick to the same technology. Go Poe or coax, not both. Poe has more options available, but coax being older tech is cheaper. You don't necessarily need an nvr from the outset either. You can use sd cards and/or a cloud service. Also, if you do get an nvr, check it can accommodate as many cameras and the resolution you need. Some can have 8 cameras but only if they are 2 or 3 Megapixel. If you want 8k uhd then you might only get one or two cameras supported by your nvr due to disk write speeds. Typically the high resolution cameras are great in daylight but suffer at night unless very high end. I find 3-4MP the sweet spot at the moment. Keep an eye on ebay, I picked up all my kit slowly over months but at about 75% of the price, even brand new. The one thing I have learned is that every year there's a better model so just move that to the most important location and move all the others around accordingly like you suggested.

Thanks for the info

I think I will go POE, I have identified a good central location to mount the nvr which allows very easy access to running the cables to the cameras and is also a short distance to run a cable to my router

Using sd cards would mean climbing ladders to retrieve any footage if needed so I dont mind the cost of the nvr for the ease of use/setup etc

is there a particular nvr that you would recommend that would be compatible with both the colorvu camera and also use others?
I am looking at max 4 points of detection so a 4ch unit would probably be sufficient

the areas the cameras will be monitoring will be backed up by lighting a night if triggered

Gooey Looey · 16-05-2020 9:32am

Lex Luthor wrote: »

ya looking at a POE system

what about this? https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hikvision-Vision-Outdoor-DVR-Security/dp/B0751JRKK1/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1S2FH4JT8E6IR&dchild=1&keywords=hikvision%2Bcolourvu%2B4k&qid=1589525626&sprefix=hikvision%2Bc%2Caps%2C143&sr=8-1&th=1

That is a Hikvision IP over coax kit not POE. Look at the cables supplied.

Lex Luthor · 16-05-2020 9:58am

Gooey Looey wrote: »

That is a Hikvision IP over coax kit not POE. Look at the cables supplied.

ah ok, does it make any difference what cables are used if they are supplied?

I need to measure the runs but I think 18m would be sufficient for me to get to all 4 camera points....one might be tricky though

Gooey Looey · 16-05-2020 10:01am

Lex Luthor wrote: »

ah ok, does it make any difference what cables are used if they are supplied?

I need to measure the runs but I think 18m would be sufficient for me to get to all 4 camera points....one might be tricky though

What I meant was the cables supplied are coax.

Lex Luthor · 16-05-2020 10:21am

Gooey Looey wrote: »

What I meant was the cables supplied are coax.

Ya I got that

But does it matter in terms of speed or quality if it’s a coax or Ethernet cable?

If I got a system with Ethernet and cable was too short it’s a bit easier to knock one up rather than the dual coax/power cable

Gooey Looey · 16-05-2020 10:29am

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Ya I got that

But does it matter in terms of speed or quality if it’s a coax or Ethernet cable?

If I got a system with Ethernet and cable was too short it’s a bit easier to knock one up rather than the dual coax/power cable

It does matter. Maybe not now but any future upgrades would be limited to the fact that you only have coax. Coax has limited bandwidth, analog cameras are low resolution but Hikvision use a proprietary protocol to get more bandwidth over this coax.

I wouldn't install coax today when a cat5e can do much more and can also carry power. You are best to go with a proper IP Poe camera system

alta stare · 16-05-2020 11:15am

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Ya I got that

But does it matter in terms of speed or quality if it’s a coax or Ethernet cable?

If I got a system with Ethernet and cable was too short it’s a bit easier to knock one up rather than the dual coax/power cable

In the grand of scheme of things for a domestic setting it doesnt matter all to much. As a professional in this industry i would suggest ip cameras over coax because there is so much more quality and options in ip systems than coax systems but the coax systems are still very good.

I put a cheap Dahua 4 way hd system in my parents house and the picture quality is perfect. It suits them down to the ground. 1080p cameras with a hybrid machine. Going for a more expensive option just because made absolutely no sense.

Do what your budget can reach. HIKvision and Dahua have such ranges for people who cant or dont want to spend loads of money on their equipment and that equipment is perfectly fine.

machiavellianme · 17-05-2020 12:37am

Have a look at the Hilook by Hikvision range. They're cheaper but still decent and apparently work with the normal HIK stuff on a HIK nvr. You won't get the same level of night vision but they'll be solidly built and should last.
See the likes of:
https://www.rfconcepts.ie/hilook-by-hikvision-ipc-t240h-ip-ext-turret-4mp-poe-4mm-3771.html

Lex Luthor · 17-05-2020 8:02am

alta stare wrote: »

I put a cheap Dahua 4 way hd system in my parents house and the picture quality is perfect. It suits them down to the ground. 1080p cameras with a hybrid machine. Going for a more expensive option just because made absolutely no sense.

Do what your budget can reach. HIKvision and Dahua have such ranges for people who cant or dont want to spend loads of money on their equipment and that equipment is perfectly fine.

colleague of mine is putting a Dahua system in his place next week so will see how that goes for him and what kit he got
thanks for the info

Gooey Looey · 17-05-2020 8:24am

Lex Luthor wrote: »

colleague of mine is putting a Dahua system in his place next week so will see how that goes for him and what kit he got
thanks for the info

Yeah Dahua are excellent. Getting your hands on them without contacting an installer may be the issue. Most Irish suppliers are trade/PSA licence only.

Lex Luthor · 17-05-2020 8:27am

having a look online at the Hilook cameras suggested
Came across these 2x 4MP units
Same model number by the look of it but one is a 2.8mm lens and one is a 4mm lens

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HiLook-Hikvision-IPC-T240H-Turret-Network/dp/B07NSS9WKR/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=t240h&qid=1589699709&sr=8-2

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HiLook-Progressive-CMOS-ICR-2560x1440/dp/B07DM7BZGH/ref=psdc_1330829031_t1_B07NSS9WKR

In terms of picking one over the other for viewing the front of the house, I am looking at 2 different mounting locations
One at approx 7ft off the ground to view the front door area and another from roof level to get the drive/garden area

Would the wider fov 2.8mm be better for the lower position or would you have it the other way around?

I would imagine the 4mm lens at the roof level would capture enough of the front of the property without the need to capture street aswell

alta stare · 17-05-2020 8:50am

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Yeah Dahua are excellent. Getting your hands on them without contacting an installer may be the issue. Most Irish suppliers are trade/PSA licence only.

They are easy to get. Freetv.ie have them and will sell to an end user no problem. They have the HIKvision, Hilook range aswell.

Lex Luthor · 17-05-2020 8:53am

Gooey Looey wrote: »

Yeah Dahua are excellent. Getting your hands on them without contacting an installer may be the issue. Most Irish suppliers are trade/PSA licence only.

He’s in the UK
he did say he was getting it installed rather than do it himself

I don’t mind doing it myself, quite enjoy the diy side of it

I’ve put in a few house alarms already so not shy to the challenge

alta stare · 17-05-2020 9:01am

Lex Luthor wrote: »

colleague of mine is putting a Dahua system in his place next week so will see how that goes for him and what kit he got
thanks for the info

They are good. They arent as popular over here as they would be across Asia.

The ones i put in to my parents property which is a long dormer building are

2.8mm 1080p turrets

4 channel HD Cooper series hybrid recorder

Some cameras are wired in coax some in cat 5e.

An 8 way Dantec power supply.

Obviously being in the industry myself i got it trade so i paid €150

I got the Dantec from work and already had coax and cat 5e from previous jobs i have done.

Ordinarily i wouldn't use ethernet cable as a signal cable due to the occasional issue with baluns giving bother but i used it for some runs in my parents as i have loads of it. Usually id use it for power and then it can be used if the coax cameras were to be replaced with IP cameras.

Dahua, HIKvision/Hilook are good systems. You wont go too far wrong with any of them which ever one you decide to use.

alta stare · 17-05-2020 9:05am

Lex Luthor wrote: »

having a look online at the Hilook cameras suggested
Came across these 2x 4MP units
Same model number by the look of it but one is a 2.8mm lens and one is a 4mm lens

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HiLook-Hikvision-IPC-T240H-Turret-Network/dp/B07NSS9WKR/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=t240h&qid=1589699709&sr=8-2

https://www.amazon.co.uk/HiLook-Progressive-CMOS-ICR-2560x1440/dp/B07DM7BZGH/ref=psdc_1330829031_t1_B07NSS9WKR

In terms of picking one over the other for viewing the front of the house, I am looking at 2 different mounting locations
One at approx 7ft off the ground to view the front door area and another from roof level to get the drive/garden area

Would the wider fov 2.8mm be better for the lower position or would you have it the other way around?

I would imagine the 4mm lens at the roof level would capture enough of the front of the property without the need to capture street aswell

2.8mm lens has a wide angle field of view which would suit looking across the front/back of a house.

4mm lens would have a tighter field of view with more depth to the picture so it would be good in side entrances, front porches, doors etc.

machiavellianme · 17-05-2020 10:25am

Have a read of this page, the pictures tell 1000 words:
https://www.diysecuritycameras.com.au/faqs/general/which-lens-should-i-select.html

I've personally stopped using 2.8mm entirely. They lack any kind of useful detail and it's worse at night when you need details most. Unless you like looking at your neighbours property (and I mean neighbours plural as you'll see a few houses across the street) I wouldn't recommend 2.8mm. Never put a camera too high either unless you like looking at the top of people's heads.

I've mounted 4mm to cover the entire front of house (semi D) under the window sill of the second floor and its decent. Tested higher and got useless results.
As a result, I bought a bunch of lenses from aliexpress and played around to figure out what does what. Ultimately, I settled on 4mm and 6mm for my place. The 6mm fared better when focusing on the gate and car but missed the lad hopping the wall to get his football back so I've the 4mm for slightly wider front and back views and 6mm at the front door and alley.

If all the above is too complex, get a varifocal and select your ideal zoom. They cost a bit more and usually have poorer night vision though. That said, I've heard great things about these (there's surely a newer poe model available)
https://www.megateh.eu/products/hd-cvi-cameras-dahua/dahua-hac-hdw2501tp-z-a-eyeball-hdcvi-5mp-27-135mm-10229-motorized-starlight-ir-led-60m

alta stare · 17-05-2020 11:00am

machiavellianme wrote: »

Have a read of this page, the pictures tell 1000 words:
https://www.diysecuritycameras.com.au/faqs/general/which-lens-should-i-select.html

I've personally stopped using 2.8mm entirely. They lack any kind of useful detail and it's worse at night when you need details most. Unless you like looking at your neighbours property (and I mean neighbours plural as you'll see a few houses across the street) I wouldn't recommend 2.8mm. Never put a camera too high either unless you like looking at the top of people's heads.

I've mounted 4mm to cover the entire front of house (semi D) under the window sill of the second floor and its decent. Tested higher and got useless results.
As a result, I bought a bunch of lenses from aliexpress and played around to figure out what does what. Ultimately, I settled on 4mm and 6mm for my place. The 6mm fared better when focusing on the gate and car but missed the lad hopping the wall to get his football back so I've the 4mm for slightly wider front and back views and 6mm at the front door and alley.

If all the above is too complex, get a varifocal and select your ideal zoom. They cost a bit more and usually have poorer night vision though. That said, I've heard great things about these (there's surely a newer poe model available)
https://www.megateh.eu/products/hd-cvi-cameras-dahua/dahua-hac-hdw2501tp-z-a-eyeball-hdcvi-5mp-27-135mm-10229-motorized-starlight-ir-led-60m

Lens selection is entirely subject to what is required by the individual. What works for you may not work for someone else. The standard lens id see being installed now is the 2.8mm and if people want more depth or a tighter picture they go 3.6 or 4mm. Many people also choose varifocal lenses again depending on what they want to see. There are many variables at play when installing a cctv system and any good installer will go through these with the client. The ones who lash in the one type lens in every place they go to are the industry cowboys.

Lex Luthor · 17-05-2020 1:11pm

Looking at freetv.ie, any thoughts on this NVR?

https://www.freetv.ie/4-way-nvr/

Add in a 2TB HDD comes in about €200

Am I right in saying then any POE camera up to 6MP can be added to this from any manufacturer or are they specific to Dahua only?

machiavellianme · 17-05-2020 2:04pm

alta stare wrote: »

Lens selection is entirely subject to what is required by the individual. What works for you may not work for someone else. The standard lens id see being installed now is the 2.8mm and if people want more depth or a tighter picture they go 3.6 or 4mm. Many people also choose varifocal lenses again depending on what they want to see. There are many variables at play when installing a cctv system and any good installer will go through these with the client. The ones who lash in the one type lens in every place they go to are the industry cowboys.

Agreed, hence I suggested reading the page and I've given some personal insights. I spent a lot of time and money refining my system. The OP has said that money is a factor so I'm giving them a steer to research in advance. My experience (and that on many cctv forums) is that 2.8mm is pointless for home security applications and suited to vista viewing rather than details on intruders.
What makes a "good installer"? I've not heard of any required certification to be one? I'm just an enthusiast passing some advice based on years of good and bad experience. No harm intended.

alta stare · 17-05-2020 3:09pm

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Looking at freetv.ie, any thoughts on this NVR?

https://www.freetv.ie/4-way-nvr/

Add in a 2TB HDD comes in about €200

Am I right in saying then any POE camera up to 6MP can be added to this from any manufacturer or are they specific to Dahua only?

Yeah that range are good. Very easy to use and a nicer UI than previous versions of Dahua machines.

Yes you can add other manufacturers products to it and yes up to 6MP can be used.

alta stare · 17-05-2020 3:22pm

machiavellianme wrote: »

Agreed, hence I suggested reading the page and I've given some personal insights. I spent a lot of time and money refining my system. The OP has said that money is a factor so I'm giving them a steer to research in advance. My experience (and that on many cctv forums) is that 2.8mm is pointless for home security applications and suited to vista viewing rather than details on intruders.
What makes a "good installer"? I've not heard of any required certification to be one? I'm just an enthusiast passing some advice based on years of good and bad experience. No harm intended.

I wasnt questioning your own views just adding the point that what works for one may not work for another.

What makes a good installer?
An installer who actually carries out a site survey then advises the different options available to the client.

An installer who plans his cable routes and camera positions one where cables arent just slung or fixed on full show to the outside world.

An installer who uses quality gear ie good cameras, switches, connectors, cabling etc.

An installer who cares about using the correct cable choice for the environment etc.

An installer who sets up the system to maximise its capabilities for the end user.

To be fair alot of people can install many things but doing it the correct way is the key and im afraid i have come across many DIY jobs which fall into the bodge category. Now i am not for one minute suggesting you are one of those who bodges their work i am only replying to your what makes a good installer question and i think i wont be alone is saying that some DIY jobs are rubbish so getting in a professional installer can be beneficial.

Lex Luthor · 17-05-2020 3:33pm

alta stare wrote: »

Yeah that range are good. Very easy to use and a nicer UI than previous versions of Dahua machines.

Yes you can add other manufacturers products to it and yes up to 6MP can be used.

Thanks

Freetv look like they will supply the NVR to public but range of cameras to public is slim

Looked at the link sent about what lens and think maybe a 6mm at the door and 4mm further up to capture the drive
Then for the side entrance at a later point 8mm

As for cable, as I'd probably be making up my own, I see they have various types on freetv

Understand that the reason for the price difference is probably down to the composition of the wire inside, but would the cheaper CCA stuff be ok or would you be better off spending on the higher quality?

In other words for these 2 rolls of 305m, is the cheaper one sufficient?

https://www.freetv.ie/cat5e-utp-copper-ethernet-cable/

or

https://www.freetv.ie/cat5e-utp/

I'd be happy enough in doing the install myself, I'm involved in instrumentation for the last 25yrs so have ran plenty signal cables and would be very picky on running them neatly and doing a neat job
I've been surveying the house the last while as for varios monitoring points and based on what info you have suggested aswell which is great I'm hoping the placements will work, if they dont I can trial another location

Thanks again

alta stare · 17-05-2020 3:43pm

Lex Luthor wrote: »

Thanks

Freetv look like they will supply the NVR to public but range of cameras to public is slim

Looked at the link sent about what lens and think maybe a 6mm at the door and 4mm further up to capture the drive
Then for the side entrance at a later point 8mm

As for cable, as I'd probably be making up my own, I see they have various types on freetv

Understand that the reason for the price difference is probably down to the composition of the wire inside, but would the cheaper CCA stuff be ok or would you be better off spending on the higher quality?

In other words for these 2 rolls of 305m, is the cheaper one sufficient?

https://www.freetv.ie/cat5e-utp-copper-ethernet-cable/

or

https://www.freetv.ie/cat5e-utp/

I'd be happy enough in doing the install myself, I'm involved in instrumentation for the last 25yrs so have ran plenty signal cables and would be very picky on running them neatly and doing a neat job
I've been surveying the house the last while as for varios monitoring points and based on what info you have suggested aswell which is great I'm hoping the placements will work, if they dont I can trial another location

Thanks again

When you create an account with them you will see the prices for the other stuff. They will supply you. I actually have an account with them myself.

The cheaper cabling is not great. I know as i tried it before on a short run. Id stay away from it to be honest.

CCTV

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