Commonage/hill farmers issues thread, GLAS, GAEC, etc etc

Connemara Farmer · 03-12-2014 8:21pm

rangler1 wrote: »

Whatever about subsidies that show benefits in producing raw materials for industry and employment, subsidies that don't show this benefit won't be tolerated by the European Taxpayer.

And your evidence for this statement? Because it's pure bunkum, if you read the 266 questions from the Commission, I have, have you?

Connemara Farmer · 03-12-2014 8:47pm

Full speed ahead for the protest in Castlebar on Friday.

Spread the word

Connemara Farmer · 03-12-2014 8:55pm

Minister for Discrimination.

http://www.mediahq.com/marianharkinmep/94695/minister-accused-of-discrimination-against-hill-farmers

rangler1 · 03-12-2014 10:47pm

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Minister for Discrimination.

http://www.mediahq.com/marianharkinmep/94695/minister-accused-of-discrimination-against-hill-farmers

Do you not think that if there was any way of changing Coveneys mind that IFA would have done it, we've never agreed to any thing but we've lobbied him since April to reduce the requirements and no one seems to have done any better.
At least now you see that you don't just write a santa list and send it in to the dept and the toys are delivered.
But keep going, you Guys can destroy Coveney, you won't have to meet him again on another issue

Connemara Farmer · 03-12-2014 10:55pm

rangler1 wrote: »

Do you not think that if there was any way of changing Coveneys mind that IFA would have done it, we've never agreed to any thing but we've lobbied him since April to reduce the requirements and no one seems to have done any better.

No, I don't think IFA would have done it. In fact I know IFA haven't done it. IFA are not on the side of commonage, hill, or low income farmers.

IFA supplied no "No Collective Agreement" posters at the protest in Dublin, as you know. Yet the main topic at every meeting previous to it was....... drumroll........ No collective agreement. They had already agreed to the 50% and my information says the top was in favour of 80% before that.

rangler1 wrote: »

At least now you see that you don't just write a santa list and send it in to the dept and the toys are delivered.
But keep going, you Guys can destroy Coveney, you won't have to meet him again on another issue

Simon Coveney said that his door was always open to the president of the IFA, or by phone if he wasn't around. Word was, had IFA supported the hill group that Coveney would have accepted the deal. The fact is that IFA don't want to represent these type of farmers. Various interests want to divert the bulk of monies destined for those areas €522m down to €90m.

As for destroying Coveney, how do you figure that? Personally I'd torpedo him in the morning, but I am one voice of many.

rangler1 · 03-12-2014 10:57pm

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

And your evidence for this statement? Because it's pure bunkum, if you read the 266 questions from the Commission, I have, have you?

What benefit has the ordinary taxpayer, if subsidising farmers doesn't return food and employment......did you not see where England was going to rethink their contribution to Europe a few weeks ago....doesn't matter what the commission thinks if the net contributor tell them to F...off

HillFarmer · 03-12-2014 11:01pm

rangler1 wrote: »

What benefit has the ordinary taxpayer, if subsidising farmers doesn't return food and employment......did you not see where England was going to rethink their contribution to Europe a few weeks ago....doesn't matter what the commission thinks if the net contributor tell them to F...off

I think Rangler if you went to the people on the street in Ireland and asked them asked them which farmer should be more subsidised you'd find they'd go West over East.

Capercaille · 03-12-2014 11:02pm

rangler1 wrote: »

What benefit has the ordinary taxpayer, if subsidising farmers doesn't return food and employment......did you not see where England was going to rethink their contribution to Europe a few weeks ago....doesn't matter what the commission thinks if the net contributor tell them to F...off

Subsidising farmers in Natura 2000/SAC/SPA to preserve endangered habitats/species.

Connemara Farmer · 03-12-2014 11:07pm

rangler1 wrote: »

What benefit has the ordinary taxpayer, if subsidising farmers doesn't return food and employment......did you not see where England was going to rethink their contribution to Europe a few weeks ago....doesn't matter what the commission thinks if the net contributor tell them to F...off

Did Simon write your post? Food, employment & the economy, blinkers superglued on.

Paschal Donohoe might write mine? Thousands of tourists wander my land each year, land managed by commonage farmers, which if it wasn't, well ask some Wicklow walking groups how heather impedes tourism, you know that's part of the economy too. Or indeed ask Burren farmers about hazel.

Or Heather Humphreys maybe? SAC, NHA and other designations preserving habitats and some of the most environmentally sensitive lands in the EU.

Or how about Alan Kelly, with bogs being carbon sinks, production of clean water, flood prevention etc.

None of which is properly realised economically to the farmer but all of which contribute hugely to the economy.

The EU recognise all these things must be paid for.

As for England, are you having a laugh? They're threatening to bail out of the EU every Tuesday.

Oh, you never answered either of my questions?

Username John · 03-12-2014 11:07pm

HillFarmer wrote: »

I think Rangler if you went to the people on the street in Ireland and asked them asked them which farmer should be more subsidised you'd find they'd go West over East.

I think a lot of people would say "stop subsidising"

Connemara Farmer · 03-12-2014 11:09pm

Username John wrote: »

I think a lot of people would say "stop subsidising"

I doubt it, when it's explained most of that money comes from the EU and not the Irish tax payer. People aren't stupid, once things are explained in a truthful way they tend to react positively.

rangler1 · 03-12-2014 11:10pm

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

No, I don't think IFA would have done it. In fact I know IFA haven't done it. IFA are not on the side of commonage, hill, or low income farmers.

IFA supplied no "No Collective Agreement" posters at the protest in Dublin, as you know. Yet the main topic at every meeting previous to it was....... drumroll........ No collective agreement. They had already agreed to the 50% and my information says the top was in favour of 80% before that.

Simon Coveney said that his door was always open to the president of the IFA, or by phone if he wasn't around. Word was, had IFA supported the hill group that Coveney would have accepted the deal. The fact is that IFA don't want to represent these type of farmers. Various interests want to divert the bulk of monies destined for those areas €522m down to €90m.

As for destroying Coveney, how do you figure that? Personally I'd torpedo him in the morning, but I am one voice of many.

That's all lies, when you have proof, come back to me. Why haven't the farming indo published these allegations ...they'd be only too glad to put the boot into IFA and don't kid yourself, loads of journalist follow here in the hunt for news

Connemara Farmer · 03-12-2014 11:15pm

rangler1 wrote: »

That's all lies, when you have proof, come back to me. Why haven't the farming indo published these allegations ...they'd be only too glad to put the boot into IFA and don't kid yourself, loads of journalist follow here in the hunt for news

There's no lie in any of what I said

Username John · 03-12-2014 11:15pm

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

I doubt it, when it's explained most of that money comes from the EU and not the Irish tax payer. People aren't stupid, once things are explained in a truthful way they tend to react positively.

I don't know Con, I think if you just asked the question, a lot of people have this view of farmers getting 'money for nothing'

Connemara Farmer · 03-12-2014 11:17pm

Username John wrote: »

I don't know Con, I think if you just asked the question, a lot of people have this view of farmers getting 'money for nothing'

That's slightly different, people have preconceived notions about lots of things in life from depression to teachers holidays. It also depends on whether the person you're talking to has an open mind or not, not much point in wishing your life away with the latter.

Connemara Farmer · 03-12-2014 11:29pm

rangler1 wrote: »

That's all lies, when you have proof, come back to me. Why haven't the farming indo published these allegations ...they'd be only too glad to put the boot into IFA and don't kid yourself, loads of journalist follow here in the hunt for news

You still haven't answered either of my questions.

rangler1 · 03-12-2014 11:35pm

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

There's no lie in any of what I said

Specify the 'varied interests' and supply proof.
The best thing that ever happened was that you guys decided we weren't doing enough and thought you could do better.
btw There's nothing in Glas for active farmers,

Connemara Farmer · 03-12-2014 11:37pm

rangler1 wrote: »

Specify the 'varied interests' and supply proof.
The best thing that ever happened was that you guys decided we weren't doing enough and thought you could do better.
btw There's nothing in Glas for active farmers,

No, you won't answer my questions.

Who's not an active farmer?

Interesting how when we make a bit of headway on things suddenly a thread on issues takes an IFA slant

Bullocks · 03-12-2014 11:49pm

rangler1 wrote: »

But keep going, you Guys can destroy Coveney, you won't have to meet him again on another issue

Don't think anyone will cry over that , not even Coveney . Im sure he can find something else to occupy himself with

rangler1 · 03-12-2014 11:59pm

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

No, you won't answer my questions.

Who's not an active farmer?

Interesting how when we make a bit of headway on things suddenly a thread on issues takes an IFA slant

What questions

Birdnuts · 04-12-2014 12:01am

I think the problem here is that some people seem to think CAP 2014 is the same CAP that we had in the 80's. And by some people I include this government and the Dept. EU has made it very clear over the last 20 years with the CAP reforms of that time that subsidies for production will be phased out as they are against WTO rules and simply lead to massive costs for storage of excess beef, wine, milk etc. They also hit these commodity prices hard and it puzzles me that some people in the farming community want to repeat all these mistakes over and over again by going back to a headage based system, especially as we are lurching from one crisis to another in this area. The EU has also made it clear that is wants these payments to instead go into over all rural development and environmental protections and are prepared to rewards farmers for that. I see nothing wrong with that since if we went the other way would eventually see a total wipe out of the family farm with American style ranches and feedlots owned by multinational processers and multiples taking over.

rangler1 · 04-12-2014 12:09am

Birdnuts wrote: »

I think the problem here is that some people seem to think CAP 2014 is the same CAP that we had in the 80's. And by some people I include this government and the Dept. EU has made it very clear over the last 20 years with the CAP reforms of that time that subsidies for production will be phased out as they are against WTO rules and simply lead to massive costs for storage of excess beef, wine, milk etc. They also hit these commodity prices hard and it puzzles me that some people in the farming community want to repeat all these mistakes over and over again by going back to a headage based system, especially as we are lurching from one crisis to another in this area. The EU has also made it clear that is wants these payments to instead go into over all rural development and environmental protections and are prepared to rewards farmers for that. I see nothing wrong with that since if we went the other way would eventually see a total wipe out of the family farm with American style ranches and feedlots owned by multinational processers and multiples taking over.

Can't eat the scenery though

Capercaille · 04-12-2014 12:12am

rangler1 wrote: »

Can't eat the scenery though

True. We should level every ditch, drain every bog, level every native forest, destroy all habitats in order to produce more food/money.

Bullocks · 04-12-2014 12:15am

rangler1 wrote: »

Can't eat the scenery though

The Europeans like it though .

Birdnuts · 04-12-2014 12:17am

rangler1 wrote: »

Can't eat the scenery though

Not sure what your trying to say there

This argument is about what is in the best interests of Irish farmers in terms of their return from the industry and the importance of the farmed landscape in terms of our water supplies, tourism etc. Do you believe in producing food at a loss that simple goes into long term storage??

Birdnuts · 04-12-2014 12:20am

Capercaille wrote: »

True. We should level every ditch, drain every bog, level every native forest, destroy all habitats in order to produce more food/money.

As can be seen by the current income crisis in beef,poultry etc.(and soon milk going on todays reports) its certainly not farmers who are making money from that approach.

Capercaille · 04-12-2014 12:23am

Birdnuts wrote: »

As can be seen by the current income crisis in beef,poultry etc.(and soon milk going on todays reports) its certainly not farmers who are making money from that approach.

The most intensive farmers are.

rangler1 · 04-12-2014 12:26am

Birdnuts wrote: »

Not sure what your trying to say there This argument is about what is in the best interests of Irish farmers in terms of their return from the industry and the importance of the farmed landscape in terms of our water supplies, tourism etc. Do you believe in producing in food at a loss that simple goes into long term storage??

All intensive farmers work harder at protecting water quality and environment than any tree hugger, I can tell you and if you travel through the countryside, intensively farmed land is a lot more scenic than badly farmed.
Maybe Connemara etc looks well, but I don't appreciate it, but to me the varying colours in the fields through Wexford, Carlow laoise and counties like it is as good as you get any where

Connemara Farmer · 04-12-2014 12:28am

rangler1 wrote: »

Maybe Connemara etc looks well, but I don't appreciate it

Speaks volumes.

rangler1 · 04-12-2014 12:32am

Connemara Farmer wrote: »

Speaks volumes.

If we all had the same taste, life'd be very dul

Commonage/hill farmers issues thread, GLAS, GAEC, etc etc

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