Female teachers having affairs with students

Kimia · 07-01-2011 4:07pm #1

I know it's quite a controversial topic but I wonder what the general consensus is. In some cases where the teacher is very early 20's and the student is 17 or 18 I don't think morally there really is any problem, although i'm aware that the teacher has a duty of care.

Also there have also been some reports of the students themselves seducing the teachers, going out of their way to court and entice them into a relationship. I know what I was like as a teenage girl and if there was a cute male teacher in his early 20's he would have been teased by us (ribald teenage minxes so we were!), and in some cases I definitely think some of my fellow classmates would have gone for it had the opportunity arisen.

Several women have been sent to jail for years, do you think they deserved it? Do you think it's the same as child abuse when the 'child' involved is almost an adult - maybe 16/17/18?

smileysurfer · 07-01-2011 4:16pm

Why do you say ''Female Teachers''?? Male teachers can just as easily do the same thing and its just as disgusting

metrovelvet · 07-01-2011 4:16pm

Yes. You are abusing your authority as a teacher.

Tea_Bag · 07-01-2011 4:20pm

its easy to say its wrong now, and i do, but back then... if i could i would.

Plazaman · 07-01-2011 4:24pm

Tea_Bag wrote: »

its easy to say its wrong now, and i do, but back then... if i could i would.

We didn't appreciate it when we were younger getting spanked by middle aged women. If we want it now we have to pay for it. Who'da thunk it.

In relation to the OP's post, teachers and students, a bad relationship mix.

Kimia · 07-01-2011 4:25pm

smileysurfer wrote: »

Why do you say ''Female Teachers''?? Male teachers can just as easily do the same thing and its just as disgusting

I know there are male teachers too, I just read an article in the DM about female teachers, and some people think that it's harder to understand when it's an older female teacher, that's all.

Morgase · 07-01-2011 4:26pm

metrovelvet wrote: »

Yes. You are abusing your authority as a teacher.

Absolutely. I don't think it matters whether it's male teacher / female student or female teacher / male student, or any combination. It's still an abuse of power; the gender is irrelevant.

witnessmenow · 07-01-2011 4:27pm

if it satisfies the half your age add 7 rule im not against it.

I honestly believe that the above should be the law if there is a party under 18 involved

Emme · 07-01-2011 4:27pm

Teacher/student relationships are unprofessional and irresponsible on the part of the older party who is abusing his or her authority.

Kimia · 07-01-2011 4:28pm

Morgase wrote: »

Absolutely. I don't think it matters whether it's male teacher / female student or female teacher / male student, or any combination. It's still an abuse of power; the gender is irrelevant.

What about when the relationship was instigated by the student? Do you think there's any responsibility on them? Reason I'm asking is because as I said in the OP I would have been a right madam when I was a teenager and would have delighted in an older (not too much older mind!) male teacher fancying me. Maybe not a fully fledged relationship but it was very intriguing prospect to me and to some of my friends.

neuro-praxis · 07-01-2011 4:36pm

Kimia wrote: »

In some cases where the teacher is very early 20's and the student is 17 or 18 I don't think morally there really is any problem, although i'm aware that the teacher has a duty of care.

You've contradicted yourself there in your opening line. How can it be ok if a teacher has a duty of care?

Someone in their twenties having a consensual relationship with someone who is 17/18 = fine

A teacher having a relationship with a student = not fine

One is in a position of power: the other is not.

Kimia · 07-01-2011 4:40pm

neuro-praxis wrote: »

You've contradicted yourself there in your opening line. How can it be ok if a teacher has a duty of care?

Someone in their twenties having a consensual relationship with someone who is 17/18 = fine

A teacher having a relationship with a student = not fine

One is in a position of power: the other is not.

I see what you mean. I don't mean to contradict myself but I don't have a black and white view of it I suppose. That is to say, I don't believe it's right for a teacher to have a relationship with a student, but I can see how it happens when the teacher and student are so near in age.

Konata · 07-01-2011 4:45pm

I understand your point about there being only a minimal age difference and yes, sure many 16-18 year olds have been involved with people in their early 20s but a teacher? IMO, it's NOT morally right.

Teachers play an extremely important role in society - that of educating children and teenagers. Their role is to be dependable, to be authoritative, to spread their academic and worldly knowledge and to help children & teens grow into responsible and educated adults.

Even when a teenager is 18 years old, they are still naive and impressionable. It's a tough age because they feel they know everything but in reality, their world is small and they have much to learn. A teacher - student affair is damaging at this age. It's the blurring of rules, the confusion of responsibilities and can not end well.

Both parties should have enough cop on not to engage in an affair but the teacher especially is massively at fault. I think it's completely irresponsible and selfish of a teacher to have a sexual or emotional relationship with a student. It's just not right - it has the potential to confuse an impressionable teenager, to affect their studies and hence career prospectives, to damage them emotionally and face them with something they're not yet mature enough to deal with.

If their "love" is "true" or whatever, because yes, it is possible for it to be true love, a teacher will care enough about their love interest (the student) to leave them be for a few years, at least until they are finished school and no longer under their care. That would be the responsible way, I have no respect for teachers who allow themselves to get involved with students whilst they are still school bound.

07-01-2011 5:01pm

It should be against school/college policy and it should be instant dismissal to get involved with one of your students, but it shouldn't be illegal. Is it illegal for a boss to sleep with an employee?

Ksusha26 · 07-01-2011 5:02pm

In my hometown university it was common knowledge that male professors were sleeping with female students in order for the students to get higher grades. The professors were usually in their 50s while the students would be 19-21 age group. It's wrong and an abuse of authority but it still happened.

CDfm · 07-01-2011 5:15pm

Its a bit like doctor or nurse & patient or social worker & client and there is an ethical boundary there.

Its a bit creepy - thats said as a Dad of a 20 y/o son who did his leaving 2 years ago.

Why on earth would anyone want to sleep with a child.

The Corinthian · 07-01-2011 5:20pm

Kimia wrote: »

Several women have been sent to jail for years, do you think they deserved it? Do you think it's the same as child abuse when the 'child' involved is almost an adult - maybe 16/17/18?

I'm not sure many women have been sent to jail for this. Certainly none in Ireland (especially given that women cannot even legally commit statuary rape) and in the US there have been a relatively small number of cases, most resulting in suspended or short custodial sentences: http://www.lawfirms.com/female-teacher-sex-crime-offenders-and-scandals.html

The most notorious of these was that of Debra Lafave and became the subject of a parody by Southpark.

I do remember as a freshman in college, out with friends on Leeson street, one of them bumped into (and hooked up with) his former primary school teacher. Now at the time she was his teacher she would have been quite young (about 19) as she was only a student teacher and he was in 6th class (12-years old). Not sure if this is strictly relevant though.

While still in primary or secondary school, however, it is ultimately still an adult having sexual relations with a minor (when under 16 years of age) and that is wrong regardless of gender.

Even if the student is of legal age (17), I'd have to agree with neuro-praxis here, that it is an abuse of the position of authority. As such I'd consider university professors and lecturers similarly guilty when they do the same. However, that is more an ethical than a legal point.

Morgase · 07-01-2011 5:22pm

Kimia wrote: »

What about when the relationship was instigated by the student? Do you think there's any responsibility on them? Reason I'm asking is because as I said in the OP I would have been a right madam when I was a teenager and would have delighted in an older (not too much older mind!) male teacher fancying me. Maybe not a fully fledged relationship but it was very intriguing prospect to me and to some of my friends.

I think the teacher needs to put his / her foot down and not let anything happen.

It's one thing for a 22 year old and a 17 year old who meet while socialising to get together, but when one is in a position of authority then that person has to say "no, not going to happen".

07-01-2011 5:28pm

Kimia wrote: »

What about when the relationship was instigated by the student? Do you think there's any responsibility on them? Reason I'm asking is because as I said in the OP I would have been a right madam when I was a teenager and would have delighted in an older (not too much older mind!) male teacher fancying me. Maybe not a fully fledged relationship but it was very intriguing prospect to me and to some of my friends.

What about a 14 year-old trying to instigate a relationship with an adult? It is totally the adult's responsibility to prevent it going further

Kimia · 07-01-2011 5:29pm

To clarify, I mean students over the age of consent. So definitely not children and I would consider a 14 year old still a child.

07-01-2011 5:34pm

Kimia wrote: »

To clarify, I mean students over the age of consent. So definitely not children and I would consider a 14 year old still a child.

I know, I was using it as a comparison. It is up to the "responsible" person in the relationship to stop it.

As I said, it shouldn't be illegal, but it should be against school policy. If she thinks it's worth her job, go nuts. Otherwise she can wait a few years

metrovelvet · 07-01-2011 5:36pm

Kimia wrote: »

To clarify, I mean students over the age of consent. So definitely not children and I would consider a 14 year old still a child.

While not illegal it is generally frowned upon even within universities and many have policies which include that there cannot be a relationship while a student is enrolled in the class. I think this makes a lot of sense for a number of reasons.

I was quite stunned and dumbfounded when I discovered that a friend of mine met with one of his students [masters level] in a pub whom he was teaching and that he fancied here and was considering asking her out. Now I can only imagine how that student must have felt sitting there wondering how this would affect her studies or her assessment. Bad news altogether I think.

I also have another third level teacher who admitted to under grading a student to over compensate for his crush.

And both of those are complicated enough without even a relationship in motion. Its still all in the imagination at that point. So no no no.

LittleBook · 07-01-2011 5:44pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

in the US there have been a relatively small number of cases, most resulting in suspended or short custodial sentences: http://www.lawfirms.com/female-teacher-sex-crime-offenders-and-scandals.html

Sweet jebus, some of that's horrific!

a (37) year old mother, who attempted to marry a fifteen-year-old male, who happened to be a friend of her son, under a bizarre legal loophole under Georgia law.

an interim teacher at McClatchy High School in Sacramento, California when police officers found her and a sixteen (16) year old male student behind the school in a parked car. During the February of 2009 arrest, responding officers noted steamed up windows, the car’s occupants moving rhythmically, and an infant child strapped in a safety seat inside the vehicle.

a behavioral counselor ... who was 31 years old at the time of her arrest, was charged with having sex with an autistic, fifteen (15) year old boy

a married, elementary school teacher ... began a relationship with a sixth grade student [where students are usually 11 – 12 years old] she had previously taught in second grade.

a twenty-nine (29) year old teacher charged in relation to alleged sexual encounters with a seventeen (17) year old male student during an overnight school camping trip in October of 2006. Investigators stated McCandless plied the young man with alcohol and engaged in sexual activity with the boy mere feet away from other students.

a twenty-three (23) year old teacher ... arrested for having illegal sexual relations with a thirteen (13) year old male student.

a teacher ... engaging in an affair with a sixth-grade male student and fleeing with the child to Mexico in October of 2007. According to police, Peterson engaged in a sexual relationship with Fernando Rodriguez beginning when the boy was twelve (12) years old

a thirty-one (31) year old teacher before information surfaced involving her with the molestation of ten (10) year old boy, who was a former student of Rice’s at McKinley Elementary in 2007. The pair was apprehended together after Rice and the child decided to run away together and an Amber Alert was issued for the child

a forty-six (46) year old teacher specializing in special education at Magnolia High School in Magnolia, Arkansas and the wife of the school’s vice principal. However, in 2008, Sanders was arrested for essentially arranging a multi-partner sexual encounter at a local motel via Facebook involving two (2) girls aged twelve and thirteen, underage boys, and a twenty-two (22) year old man. Sanders also allegedly involved her own daughter in motel activities, including buying the teen alcohol and driving a car around while minors engaged I sexual activity in the back seat.

a twenty- eight (28) year old teacher at Highlands Senior High School in Natrona Heights, Pennsylvania before she was arrested for sexual conduct involving students and other minors. According to police, a rented hotel room contained Swogger, several teens aged fourteen (14) to fifteen (15), and numerous other illicit items, including alcohol, cannabis, and an open condom wrapper. Later revelations in the case showed that Swogger had regularly engaged in sexual acts with young men as young as fourteen (14). These allegations included photos leaked online showing Swogger being groped by six underage boys while nude. After the final tally was made, Swogger faced a total of 39 charges relating to her illicit sexual behavior, including providing crack cocaine to some of her victims.

twenty-seven (27) years old and employed at Centertown Elementary School in McMinnville, Tennessee as a coach and teacher when she was arrested in connection to sexual relations with a student aged thirteen years old. Turner was arrested in February of 2005 under charges that she had a sexual relationship with a thirteen (13) year old student.

The Corinthian wrote: »

The most notorious of these was that of Debra Lafave and became the subject of a parody by Southpark.

That episode nailed (if you'll pardon the pun) the real issue with female teacher/male student sexual relationships ... too many people, often including the students, don't see the problem (unless the teacher is ugly, otherwise it's "nice").

But reading the above shows just how sick some of these women are. :eek:

Kimia wrote: »

To clarify, I mean students over the age of consent. So definitely not children and I would consider a 14 year old still a child.

Sorry, took some time putting my post together so it went up before I read this.

The Corinthian · 07-01-2011 5:50pm

Kimia wrote: »

To clarify, I mean students over the age of consent. So definitely not children and I would consider a 14 year old still a child.

Ahh, OK. What neuro-praxis said then.

The Corinthian · 07-01-2011 6:31pm

LittleBook wrote: »

But reading the above shows just how sick some of these women are. :eek:

I agree, when you read what they did, such as the case of Pamela Rogers Turner, but then when you see what she looks like, you really have to ask your self; "WTF???!!!"

metrovelvet · 07-01-2011 6:42pm

The Corinthian wrote: »

I agree, when you read what they did, such as the case of Pamela Rogers Turner, but then when you see what she looks like, you really have to ask your self; "WTF???!!!"

What do her looks have to do with it?

coffee_cake · 07-01-2011 8:03pm

Can't imagine anyone obsessing over the guy's looks if the roles were reversed

CDfm · 07-01-2011 10:33pm

In the USA male victims of child rape are required to pay child support in respect of any child born as a result of the relationship.

http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?collection=journals&handle=hein.journals/geolr36&div=17&id=&page=

coffee_cake · 07-01-2011 10:34pm

CDfm wrote: »

In the USA male victims of child rape are required to pay child support in respect of any child born as a result of the relationship.

http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?collection=journals&handle=hein.journals/geolr36&div=17&id=&page=

That's outrageous :eek:

metrovelvet · 07-01-2011 10:38pm

CDfm wrote: »

In the USA male victims of child rape are required to pay child support in respect of any child born as a result of the relationship.

http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?collection=journals&handle=hein.journals/geolr36&div=17&id=&page=

They see child support as the child's entitlement not the mothers, so they dont take it out on the child.

However, as minors I cant see how they can pay child support. Are their parents forced to cough up?

DublinWriter · 07-01-2011 10:39pm

Kimia wrote: »

Several women have been sent to jail for years, do you think they deserved it? Do you think it's the same as child abuse when the 'child' involved is almost an adult - maybe 16/17/18?

Age of consent in 17 in this country.

That aside, it's a massive breach of professional ethics for that sort of thing to happen.

Female teachers having affairs with students

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