Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

"do be"

2

Comments

  • #32
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #33
    Conall Cernach
    Registered Users Posts: 1,924 ✭✭✭Conall Cernach


    An Italian friend of mine did her thesis on this very subject. She is fascinated by how the Irish use the English language.


  • #34
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    I think this is entirely more fanciful.


  • #35
    Chancer3001
    Registered Users Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Chancer3001


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    the irish died out as everyday language but you still learnt how to speak english from parents / grandparents etc who speak english in a certain way


  • #36
    Mearings
    Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Mearings


    missmatty wrote: »
    I'm from the Gaeltacht and it would be used a lot alright. Doesn't make it any easier to hear!

    There's another constuction I dislike: it would be used instead of it is used....


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    Username here
    Registered Users Posts: 1,044 ✭✭✭Username here


    FishOnABike wrote: »
    It is ;-)

    Surely you mean "it does be"?!


  • #38
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    That's true, Irish did die out in Dublin years before the rest of the country, but the English we speak is still affected by it. We don't speak English in the same way as other countries in the anglosphere, and as English doesn't have structured change and a standardised format like German for example, it is passed down orally imperfections and all.
    The main example of this is our pronunciation of "t" as a fricative, rather than a stop


  • #39
    Mearings
    Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Mearings


    Username here wrote: »
    Surely you mean "it does be"?!

    Are you saying it should be does be?


  • #40
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,014 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    I am an English person who has lived in Ireland for nearly 50 years. In that time I have adopted quite a lot of 'Irishisms' even though I still have an English accent. I use Irish phrasing and speech patterns so mixed in with English colloquial and regional speech patterns that I would confuse anyone trying to analyse me. I do not say 'do be' because it does not come naturally to me, but I like the information phrases like that provide. As someone else said, it gives much more information than 'is'.

    Phrases like 'I done' or 'should have went' (should of went, arrgh) however are a whole different story, fortunately not an Irish one.


  • #41
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,367 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Triceratops Ballet wrote:
    The main example of this is our pronunciation of "t" as a fricative, rather than a stop

    I'd go so far as to say that a lot of Irish people pronounce "t" as a sibilant rather than a stop!


  • #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Gravelly wrote: »
    God that term drives me nuts. I work with an otherwise normal woman that uses it constantly. I cry a little inside every time she says it.

    Impressive; sneering at Irish people for still articulating a clear distinction in language by using a synthetic structure from their own language to compensate for the lack of the same very useful distinction in the coloniser's language. And that actually drives you "nuts"? Really?

    A serious case of cultural cringe, I suggest.

    Furthermore, if people are ignorant enough to put idioms from the Irish on the same scale as indisputably bad English constructions like "I seen", "I done" and "I should of", it says infinitely more about their own narrow, undereducated worldview than about the supposed ignorance of those of us who remain more connected with our own Irish tradition.

    Meanwhile, some of my favourite idioms from the Irish, which no doubt drive people of a certain mentality over the edge.


  • #44
    Teyla Emmagan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    Fuaranach wrote:
    Furthermore, if people are ignorant enough to put idioms from the Irish on the same scale as indisputably bad English constructions like "I seen", "I done" and "I should of", it says infinitely more about their own narrow, undereducated worldview than about the supposed ignorance of those of us who remain more connected with our own Irish tradition.

    Seriously. This thread is 2 months old.

    Talk about having a chip on your shoulder.


  • #45
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Teyla Emmagan wrote: »
    Fuaranach wrote:
    Furthermore, if people are ignorant enough to put idioms from the Irish on the same scale as indisputably bad English constructions like "I seen", "I done" and "I should of", it says infinitely more about their own narrow, undereducated worldview than about the supposed ignorance of those of us who remain more connected with our own Irish tradition.

    Seriously. This thread is 2 months old.

    Talk about having a chip on your shoulder.

    Trying to get revenge for being spanked on another thread!


  • #46
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    That it be ...

    I'll just leave this here ... ;)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5IFwHQhC3o


  • #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Teyla Emmagan wrote: »
    Seriously. This thread is 2 months old.

    Talk about having a chip on your shoulder.

    How very astute of you to notice such things. Perhaps this thread (and all the others from months ago) should be removed from the first page of the forum if we're not allowed respond after some point in time that you decide? As for chips on shoulders, perhaps you could just delete every post on the internet that you disagree with? Go for it.


  • #48
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,821 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    Noo wrote: »
    Can you give an example of how you use "do be"?

    Do be, do be, do.

    :)


  • #49
    Teyla Emmagan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    Gravelly wrote:
    Trying to get revenge for being spanked on another thread!

    This was posted first but I seem to be having a bad evening alright :-)


  • #50
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Teyla Emmagan wrote: »
    Gravelly wrote:
    Trying to get revenge for being spanked on another thread!

    This was posted first but I seem to be having a bad evening alright :-)

    Lol - I didn’t mean you!


  • #51
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,499 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Impressive; sneering at Irish people for still articulating a clear distinction in language by using a synthetic structure from their own language to compensate for the lack of the same very useful distinction in the coloniser's language. And that actually drives you "nuts"? Really?

    A serious case of cultural cringe, I suggest.

    Furthermore, if people are ignorant enough to put idioms from the Irish on the same scale as indisputably bad English constructions like "I seen", "I done" and "I should of", it says infinitely more about their own narrow, undereducated worldview than about the supposed ignorance of those of us who remain more connected with our own Irish tradition.

    Meanwhile, some of my favourite idioms from the Irish, which no doubt drive people of a certain mentality over the edge.

    You ok hun xoxo.


  • Advertisement
  • #52
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    I hate the Englishism "aren't I"

    Are is a third person term. My understanding is it should be "amn't I" or " am I not"...not " are I not"


  • #53
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,707 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Aren't I is totally incorrect. At least amn't I is a reasonable attempt at a contraction. If the phrase "am I not" even capable of contraction, it would be something like "am In't" and "amn't I" is close enough for my likeing.

    It really boils my piss when I hear someone "correct" someone for saying "amn't I" with "aren't I".


  • #54
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Gravelly wrote: »
    God that term drives me nuts. I work with an otherwise normal woman that uses it constantly. I cry a little inside every time she says it.

    "Do be" is a calque from the Irish language, which compensates for a hiatus in the Queen's English. The latter has no explicit habitual present , no precise way of saying "I do be playing football on Saturdays." Another poster has cited "I usually" etc, but it's not exactly the same, just as some languages for instance lack a plural, e.g. Chinese, and have to resort to numbers or words like "many" etc.. It's a universal phenomenon, where people lose their erstwhile language's vocabulary but not their way of thinking.
    "Do be" , as per Joyce, is perfectly good Hiberno-English, but of course you wouldn't say it to Her Majesty when you turn up at Buck House for the knighthood. Otherwise I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

    As a culchie, speaking of Hiberno-English, I will never till the day I die twig the difference between will and shall.


  • #55
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,230 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Lots of people I know use that term and I always take the piss out of them about it
    feargale wrote: »
    I will never till the day I die twig the difference between will and shall.

    First person i.e you or you as a group should use shall but talking about others you use will - but who really cares these days, I don't understand half the stuff the millenials are saying, instagram,snapchat - say what?


  • #56
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,707 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Will or shall is a funny one. Generally, shall is supposed to be used for first-person forms. "I/we shall be late" whereas "will" is used for second- and third-person forms, "they/he/she/it will be late".

    However, "shall" is often used to express an imperative from a legal perspective, where "will" is never used.

    "A person who does [x] shall be convicted of an offence" - removes discretion to allow a person who does [x] to be treated in some other way.

    I'm not sure there is an equivalent for "will" in that context but maybe it's the case that "shall" is only used in very formal English or by the British aristocracy?

    "Will" just doesn't seem to express as strong or imperative an intent. I could be wrong but that's what I've picked up on thus far.


  • #57
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Lots of people I know use that term and I always take the piss out of them about it



    First person i.e you or you as a group should use shall but talking about others you use will - but who really cares these days, I don't understand half the stuff the millenials are saying, instagram,snapchat - say what?

    I do be confused about it.


  • #58
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,007 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    It boils my piss.
    Up there with "I seen him" or "I done that" for me.

    I'd wager that while it may be historically tied to our native tongue, the number of people using the "do be" expression today have English as their first language and are not translating from Irish in their heads.

    When I hear people say it I think that they do be ignorant oafs.


  • #59
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    GreeBo wrote: »
    It boils my piss.

    Don't tell that to Her Majesty when you meet her.
    GreeBo wrote: »
    IUp there with "I seen him" or "I done that" for me.

    That use of the past participle for the past perfect was common in Munster two generations ago, but seems to be pretty much confined to Ulster now. I don't know how it came about. It may be a simple error or maybe there's a deeper underlying reason.
    GreeBo wrote: »
    I'd wager that while it may be historically tied to our native tongue, the number of people using the "do be" expression today have English as their first language and are not translating from Irish in their heads.

    You grossly underestimate the timeframe of language shift.
    GreeBo wrote: »
    When I hear people say it I think that they do be ignorant oafs.

    Some of them do be thinking the same about people who travel on the Dort. Be nice to them when you meet them. They control that city.


  • #60
    ButtersSuki
    Registered Users Posts: 53,028 ✭✭✭✭ButtersSuki


    Some of you would have heart attacks if you heard Joe Duffy speaking his own unique form of Dubalinese; the others would have a heart attack based solely on the stupidity of his comments.

    He does be using “do be” every day. I seen it myself.

    They’re hardly his worst crimes against the English language though. I’d give some examples but I’m too tired and going to bed. My dogs however speak better Irish than him.


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,014 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Mod: There is a small degree of techyness creeping into the conversation - its an interesting topic, lets try and keep it civil and not too personal please. (Hmm, lets looks as though it should have an apostrophe...)


Advertisement