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Italexit. Proposals for new Italian currency gaining traction

24

Comments

  • #32
    brickster69
    Registered Users Posts: 5,335 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    If all you can do is post links without any meaning full commentary, then we are left to assume you fully support the move.

    I do not support it, it is what it is.

    Inflation has fallen and interest rates have fallen in the Eurozone despite QE of 12 Trillion. There is a 93% probability of interest rate cuts by Q1 2020. That will mean savers lose money having it in a bank. :eek:

    You cannot print money you do not have, then borrow it to Countries that will never be able to pay it back.

    All roads lead to Rome.



  • #33
    Deub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭Deub


    brickster69 wrote: »
    I do not support it, it is what it is.

    Inflation has fallen and interest rates have fallen in the Eurozone despite QE of 12 Trillion. There is a 93% probability of interest rate cuts by Q1 2020. That will mean savers lose money having it in a bank. :eek:

    You cannot print money you do not have, then borrow it to Countries that will never be able to pay it back.

    So you think US is going to collapse as well?


  • #34
    Jim2007
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 9,976 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    brickster69 wrote: »
    You cannot print money you do not have, then borrow it to Countries that will never be able to pay it back.

    Except that that is not what is happening.


  • #35
    hmmm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    The only reason governments issue a parallel currency is so they immediately inflate away its value by printing lots of it. The first thing anyone with a bit of sense will do when they receive this ****e is convert it into Euros.

    Hopefully the anti-EU crowd will leap from Bitcoin into this, and we can all have a bit of a laugh as they try and work out who to blame for the value of their monopoly money disappearing.


  • #36
    brickster69
    Registered Users Posts: 5,335 ✭✭✭brickster69


    France has now overtaken Italy for debt in the Eurozone

    https://twitter.com/jvanovertveldt/status/1152278588135227392

    All roads lead to Rome.



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  • #37
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,765 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    brickster69 wrote:
    France has now overtaken Italy for debt in the Eurozone


    Is that public or private debt?


  • #38
    brickster69
    Registered Users Posts: 5,335 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Is that public or private debt?

    National debt

    All roads lead to Rome.



  • #39
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,765 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    brickster69 wrote:
    National debt


    Ah nothing too much to worry about then, private debt generally causes more problems


  • #40
    oceanman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,742 ✭✭✭oceanman


    InTheShadows wrote: »
    This along with the coming hard brexit should be enough to tip the EU over the edge.

    we can only live in hope...


  • #41
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,765 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    oceanman wrote:
    we can only live in hope...


    Oh careful what you wish for there, a collapsing eu would probably be detrimental to us all


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  • #42
    brickster69
    Registered Users Posts: 5,335 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Ah nothing too much to worry about then, private debt generally causes more problems


    Not as much as the 300 Billion Euro of Italian sovereign debt France is sat on. :eek:

    All roads lead to Rome.



  • #43
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,765 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    brickster69 wrote:
    Not as much as the 300 Billion Euro of Italian sovereign debt France is sat on.


    Ah tis all a bit of a game, again, I'd be more concerned about the growing private debt levels in France than the public debt levels, history shows, private debt causes far more damage


  • #44
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    This is in absolute levels. While French debt is too high it's around 100% of gdp, Italian is at 130% of gdp (or something like that I'm writing from memory). Cost of French borrowing is a lot lower than cost of Italian borrowing.


  • #45
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    SNIP.


  • #46
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,993 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Off topic posts deleted. We already have a thread on migration to Europe.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #47
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,993 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Off topic posts deleted. We already have a thread on migration to Europe.

    Post deleted and sanction issued.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #48
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,366 ✭✭✭McGiver


    meeeeh wrote:
    This is in absolute levels. While French debt is too high it's around 100% of gdp, Italian is at 130% of gdp (or something like that I'm writing from memory). Cost of French borrowing is a lot lower than cost of Italian borrowing.

    And Irish national public debt is approx 105% of modified GNI (as debt to GDP ratio is useless in the Irish case), which indicates very similar high level of indebtedness.


  • #49
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,255 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    And Italy goes to the polling stations again as Matteo Salvinis hopes he can replicate his gains in the EU elections; and another populist right wing government falls. My guess is neither party will end up in the next (albeit likely short lived) government coalition.


  • #50
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Nody wrote: »
    And Italy goes to the polling stations again as Matteo Salvinis hopes he can replicate his gains in the EU elections; and another populist right wing government falls. My guess is neither party will end up in the next (albeit likely short lived) government coalition.
    Is it not the case that as the League’s poll numbers approach 40%, it indicates they could get a result that could allow the party to govern on its own (without any need for coalition).

    Add in the offer of deep tax cuts Salvini promises, could do very well. Has until Monday to decide the next move.

    They remain nearly twice as likely as any other country - as the next to leave the EU (a position Greece used to hold for well over a decade).


  • #51
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,530 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Foster Future Whistle wrote: »
    Is it not the case that as the League’s poll numbers approach 40%, it indicates they could get a result that could allow the party to govern on its own (without any need for coalition).

    Add in the offer of deep tax cuts Salvini promises, could do very well. Has until Monday to decide the next move.

    They remain nearly twice as likely as any other country - as the next to leave the EU (a position Greece used to hold for well over a decade).

    Nah I don't see it. Let's join back here and see .


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  • #52
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Since 1947 Italian governments on average lasted 13 months and this one is a month older. It's an impressive achievement.

    Anyway apparently government reshuffle with more Liga ministers is more likely. Anyway I very much doubt Salvini could create government by himself. Berlusconi as far as I remember needed coalition governments and he had media empire behind him to peddle his truth.


  • #53
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,255 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    And time to pour salt on all the salty brexiteers dreams again...
    "The idea of leaving Europe, leaving the euro has never been in the pipeline," the leader of Italy's League, Matteo Salvini, told reporters at a rally near Matera.
    Sorry; not even Italy is stupid enough to follow UK out of EU.


  • #54
    cryptocurrency
    Registered Users Posts: 1,607 ✭✭✭cryptocurrency


    Nody wrote: »
    And time to pour salt on all the salty brexiteers dreams again...

    Sorry; not even Italy is stupid enough to follow UK out of EU.

    Was he talking to the markets or you? Italy will do what is right for them and if they want to back Brussels into a corner they are going the right way about it with the mixed signals on leaving.

    They say the UK leaving is like 19 smaller nations leaving at once, and with Italy a $2 trillion plus economy to May as well add a good few more to that 19. Italy after Brexit will put the EU in the dustbin of history. It won’t get up from that, that’s their bargaining chip.


  • #55
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,179 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    Was he talking to the markets or you? Italy will do what is right for them and if they want to back Brussels into a corner they are going the right way about it with the mixed signals on leaving.

    There is nothing even remotely mixed about their signals. They are unequivocally stating they are not leaving.


  • #56
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,366 ✭✭✭McGiver


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    Nody wrote: »
    And time to pour salt on all the salty brexiteers dreams again...

    Sorry; not even Italy is stupid enough to follow UK out of EU.

    Was he talking to the markets or you? Italy will do what is right for them and if they want to back Brussels into a corner they are going the right way about it with the mixed signals on leaving.

    They say the UK leaving is like 19 smaller nations leaving at once, and with Italy a $2 trillion plus economy to May as well add a good few more to that 19. Italy after Brexit will put the EU in the dustbin of history. It won’t get up from that, that’s their bargaining chip.
    Italy will back "Brussels" into the corner, good one. You know, they'll corner themselves as well? Italy is "the Brussels".


  • #57
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Even if there were any realistic notions of Italy leaving the EU, no country is going to countenance it, until Brexit is 'finished' and the full effects of the UK leaving are seen - both economically and socially. This is uncharted territory and while the manner in which the UK is leaving can be called chaotic and asinine, all indicators show it to be an economic disaster in waiting. It's not for nothing the likes of National Rally dropped 'leave the EU' from their manifestos. It's increasingly shown to be a lunatic decision.

    Italy leaving? Pull the other one, that country leads by chaos - see its average 13 month governments for goodness sake - and knows full well it's bolstered by its presence in the EU, not hampered.

    It has little historical arrogance of empire to make it believe it has the clout to go it alone.


  • #58
    DrumSteve
    Registered Users Posts: 10,799 ✭✭✭✭DrumSteve


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Even if there were any realistic notions of Italy leaving the EU, no country is going to countenance it, until Brexit is 'finished' and the full effects of the UK leaving are seen - both economically and socially. This is uncharted territory and while the manner in which the UK is leaving can be called chaotic and asinine, all indicators show it to be an economic disaster in waiting. It's not for nothing the likes of National Rally dropped 'leave the EU' from their manifestos. It's increasingly shown to be a lunatic decision.

    Italy leaving? Pull the other one, that country leads by chaos - see its average 13 month governments for goodness sake - and knows full well it's bolstered by its presence in the EU, not hampered.

    It has little historical arrogance of empire to make it believe it has the clout to go it alone.

    uh... the roman empire, maybe?


  • #59
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    DrumSteve wrote: »
    uh... the roman empire, maybe?

    Well apart from the fact that it wasn't always based in Italy, the Roman Empire hasn't been in existence in about 1000-1500 years. I'd have thought it obvious I was referring to modern empires that only recently (ie, in the last 100 years) fragmented. Empires that for all intents and purposes operated under economic and social principles genetically similar to our own.

    And IIRC, Italy only reformed as a country in 1861 (can't remember if that included the Papal States or not), and not with the same Empire building intention that Germany later showed 10 years later. A lot of European nations are relatively modern constructs - like I said, many don't have the same longstanding historical baggage others (the UK) would have.


  • #60
    Foghladh
    Registered Users Posts: 393 ✭✭Foghladh


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Well apart from the fact that it wasn't always based in Italy, the Roman Empire hasn't been in existence in about 1000-1500 years. I'd have thought it obvious I was referring to modern empires that only recently (ie, in the last 100 years) fragmented. Empires that for all intents and purposes operated under economic and social principles genetically similar to our own.

    And IIRC, Italy only reformed as a country in 1861 (can't remember if that included the Papal States or not), and not with the same Empire building intention that Germany later showed 10 years later. A lot of European nations are relatively modern constructs - like I said, many don't have the same longstanding historical baggage others (the UK) would have.

    Libya, Eritrea, Ethiopia and Albania were all assimilated into the New Italian Empire. They tried Greece before the Germans stepped in. It's not accurate to say that they didn't have the same Empire ambitions as the Germans. They certainly did, they just weren't as good at it


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  • #61
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Foghladh wrote: »
    Libya, Eritrea, Ethiopia and Albania were all assimilated into the New Italian Empire. They tried Greece before the Germans stepped in. It's not accurate to say that they didn't have the same Empire ambitions as the Germans. They certainly did, they just weren't as good at it

    what a list of conquests lol. Wasn't Ethiopia a bust? Fair enough, they weren't without designs on expansion, their colour was on the map of Africa true - the original point was that I don't feel that embedded presumption of primacy exists in the mindset of our continental neighbours as much as it does with the UK, whose proponents of Brexit seem to exist in a fantasy of empire now gone. And if they did, Brexit has been a cold shower to disabuse those of these notions.


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