Does plywood furniture need a frame for strength?

salad17 · 30-10-2020 7:00pm #1

I'm thinking of building a mobile counter on castors, 2ft by 5ft and 3ft high, with maybe a few shelves inside. Probably out of a mixture of pine board and birch plywood, all 3/4inch, I was going to start with a frame from 2by4's or 2by2's, but now I'm wondering if I even need one?

Thanks

con747 · 30-10-2020 7:07pm

salad17 wrote: »

I'm thinking of building a mobile counter on castors, 2ft by 5ft and 3ft high, with maybe a few shelves inside. Probably out of a mixture of pine board and birch plywood, all 3/4inch, I was going to start with a frame from 2by4's or 2by2's, but now I'm wondering if I even need one?

Thanks

Build a frame, or you will end up with a flat pack on the floor!

salad17 · 30-10-2020 7:10pm

I'll join it with pocket screws and glue, I should have mentioned

SweetCaliber · 30-10-2020 7:12pm

Build a frame, use 2x3's.

con747 · 30-10-2020 7:12pm

salad17 wrote: »

I'll join it with pocket screws and glue, I should have mentioned

I would still build a frame of 2x2 for stability but it depends on the weight you intend putting in and on it. A lighter frame might work.

longgonesilver · 30-10-2020 7:21pm

Are the shelves going to have a solid back? A solid back of 3/4 ply gives great support to any she!f. depending on the distance between supports and the weight on the shelves, you may or may not require some framing on the front.

salad17 · 30-10-2020 8:04pm

longgonesilver wrote: »

Are the shelves going to have a solid back? A solid back of 3/4 ply gives great support to any she!f. depending on the distance between supports and the weight on the shelves, you may or may not require some framing on the front.

Well the whole thing would have a solid back, it'll basically be a giant box with all sides and doors at the front but shelves to one side. I guess there would be a frame needed on the side of the doors anyway.

My concern is just the weight of it, I had already bought 2by4's anyway but after seeing lots of birch ply projects (although usually smaller) wondered if it was overkill

salad17 · 30-10-2020 8:07pm

con747 wrote: »

I would still build a frame of 2x2 for stability but it depends on the weight you intend putting in and on it. A lighter frame might work.

A small commercial coffee machine and bits and pieces, maybe 40kg

con747 · 30-10-2020 8:13pm

salad17 wrote: »

A small commercial coffee machine and bits and pieces, maybe 40kg

2x2 in my opinion should do. 2x4 is very bulky.

salad17 · 30-10-2020 8:26pm

Yeah, I basically copied this but decided to go with ply/pine board instead of planks, don't know why he used 2by4's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtSOr9k0Wk4&ab_channel=ThePhilgreens

recipio · 31-10-2020 1:12pm

salad17 wrote: »

Yeah, I basically copied this but decided to go with ply/pine board instead of planks, don't know why he used 2by4's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtSOr9k0Wk4&ab_channel=ThePhilgreens

Probably a bit late now but you don't have to use framing as long as your connections are good - but that's the problem. Pocket hole screws on their own are not structurally strong enough. There are loads of Ikea like K/D fittings out there but are tricky to use. I think a well equipped maker would use one of the Domino or Lamello fittings - pricey machines and fittings !
You are right about keeping the weight down. The back can be as little as 6 mm thick as long as it is let into a rebate of some kind.It will stop the structure from racking.
If you don't mind the look of wooden plugs have a look at the Confirmat screw system. They are designed to screw sheet goods together with a dedicated drill bit. You can use caps on the screws or plugs.
The faceframe system is probably easier to do but the frameless construction looks better. Ask Ikea

Calahonda52 · 31-10-2020 6:25pm

salad17 wrote: »

Yeah, I basically copied this but decided to go with ply/pine board instead of planks, don't know why he used 2by4's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtSOr9k0Wk4&ab_channel=ThePhilgreens

Its getting a lot of horsing around, and has a bit of weight in it
5' is a long span in the front with no support

salad17 · 02-11-2020 8:31pm

recipio wrote: »

Probably a bit late now but you don't have to use framing as long as your connections are good - but that's the problem. Pocket hole screws on their own are not structurally strong enough. There are loads of Ikea like K/D fittings out there but are tricky to use. I think a well equipped maker would use one of the Domino or Lamello fittings - pricey machines and fittings !
You are right about keeping the weight down. The back can be as little as 6 mm thick as long as it is let into a rebate of some kind.It will stop the structure from racking.
If you don't mind the look of wooden plugs have a look at the Confirmat screw system. They are designed to screw sheet goods together with a dedicated drill bit. You can use caps on the screws or plugs.
The faceframe system is probably easier to do but the frameless construction looks better. Ask Ikea

Thanks for all the suggestions, I hadn't heard of many of them, just familiar with them from fitting IKEA furniture! I had looked at biscuit joints and dowels for previous projects, but never used them.

I wouldn't invest in those extra tools though, I already have too many as it is! I would glue the project as well as the pocket screws anyway, it doesn't need to come apart again. Pocket holes I've found very strong although the weak point has always been the very expensive screws themselves which have snapped.

I think I will go with a 2by2 frame which seems to be the general consensus here. Thanks for your help everyone!

recipio · 07-11-2020 1:38pm

salad17 wrote: »

Thanks for all the suggestions, I hadn't heard of many of them, just familiar with them from fitting IKEA furniture! I had looked at biscuit joints and dowels for previous projects, but never used them.

I wouldn't invest in those extra tools though, I already have too many as it is! I would glue the project as well as the pocket screws anyway, it doesn't need to come apart again. Pocket holes I've found very strong although the weak point has always been the very expensive screws themselves which have snapped.

I think I will go with a 2by2 frame which seems to be the general consensus here. Thanks for your help everyone!

Hope its working out. Personally i would have simply used biscuit joinery to bring it all together as a frameless unit. That of course means a biscuit joiner and a set of long clamps. There is a little known system called the 'Miller Dowel' which uses a dedicated drill bit ( in three sizes ) to drill a hole into which the special wooden Miller dowels are glued. Unlike ordinary dowels they have a 'shoulder' so bring the pieces together. Very neat if you don't mind the look of a dowel.:rolleyes:

salad17 · 07-12-2020 6:53pm

recipio wrote: »

Hope its working out. Personally i would have simply used biscuit joinery to bring it all together as a frameless unit. That of course means a biscuit joiner and a set of long clamps. There is a little known system called the 'Miller Dowel' which uses a dedicated drill bit ( in three sizes ) to drill a hole into which the special wooden Miller dowels are glued. Unlike ordinary dowels they have a 'shoulder' so bring the pieces together. Very neat if you don't mind the look of a dowel.:rolleyes:

Thanks, I ended up just going with the 2by2 frame and pocket holes!

recipio · 09-12-2020 2:58pm

salad17 wrote: »

Thanks, I ended up just going with the 2by2 frame and pocket holes!

Good stuff. At the end of the day we all use whatever tools are available to us. I got a bit ahead of myself mentioning fancy hardware that's probably more suitable to commercial makers. If you want to make something nice to last a hundred years then traditional joinery is the way to go.:D

cargen · 01-01-2021 6:48pm

salad17 wrote: »

Thanks, I ended up just going with the 2by2 frame and pocket holes!

Would you mind posting some picture.
I am planning to build something similar and I wouldn't mind to look at someone else work.

I am completely novice.

Thanks

Dunfyy · 01-01-2021 6:52pm

It probably cheaper to buy ikea than pay for wood
Ikea is ment to use cardboard in middle of furniture but I have never cut one in half to see if you build ikea use wood glue as it will not last

salad17 · 24-01-2021 11:59am

cargen wrote: »

Would you mind posting some picture.
I am planning to build something similar and I wouldn't mind to look at someone else work.

I am completely novice.

Thanks

Apologies, I took pictures for you a while back but never uploaded them.

Here they are:

Effects · 26-01-2021 3:36pm

Dunfyy wrote: »

It probably cheaper to buy ikea than pay for wood
Ikea is ment to use cardboard in middle of furniture

Yeah, they use cardboard in a comb pattern internally in a lot of their stuff. Light and strong.

Does plywood furniture need a frame for strength?

Comments