4g antenna illegal in Ireland

ryan.rt94 · 06-10-2020 10:30am #1

I live in rural Ireland and have terrible internet as a result. We currently have 3 mobile broadband with the Huawei B593 router. I am thinking about buying an antenna for the router to improve the 4g signal. The two options I'm looking at are Poynting XPOL A0001 and Poynting XPOL A0002. I looked at these antennas on https://www.irishwireless.net/xpol-a0001 and it seems it's illegal in Ireland. Has anyone else got any experience with this and how much trouble can you get in for this? Also why are these antennas illegal? As far as I understand they are passive components. But I'm not an expert on antennas so please correct me.

Ish66 · 06-10-2020 10:42am

Nobody will even notice/bother. I dont know why it's not allowed but I would not give it a seconds thought. Tick the box, Order it and stick it up on the wall.
I hope it improves your signal

SDKev · 06-10-2020 10:46am

What you're proposing to do is receive a 4G signal, which I'm fairly sure is not illegal.

If you were planning to broadcast a 4G signal by using a 4G Repeater/amplifier outdoors, that's what you'd have an issue.

GerardKeating · 06-10-2020 11:46am

SDKev wrote: »

What you're proposing to do is receive a 4G signal, which I'm fairly sure is not illegal.

But any 3G/4G is send AND receive, as you note the "receive" part is ok, but any functional mobile (voice or data) is bi-directional and will send "something".

SDKev · 06-10-2020 11:51am

GerardKeating wrote: »

But any 3G/4G is send AND receive, as you note the "receive" part is ok, but any functional mobile (voice or data) is bi-directional and will send "something".

Very True! But I don't think its broadcasting a 4G signal that someone else could connect to?

GerardKeating · 06-10-2020 12:34pm

SDKev wrote: »

Very True! But I don't think its broadcasting a 4G signal that someone else could connect to?

I presume the worry is that the boasted signal might effect others in the area, or cause problems at the mast...

Ish66 · 06-10-2020 1:10pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

I presume the worry is that the boasted signal might effect others in the area, or cause problems at the mast...

The device receives the same weak signal and boosts it internally, like an amplifer. It does not ''send'' anything to the mast.

GerardKeating · 06-10-2020 1:59pm

Ish66 wrote: »

The device receives the same weak signal and boosts it internally, like an amplifer. It does not ''send'' anything to the mast.

So it only boosts the "incoming" signal, and not the outgoing signal?

Ish66 · 06-10-2020 2:31pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

So it only boosts the "incoming" signal, and not the outgoing signal?

If you do a speedtest on one of these, As I have done, You will see an increase on download speed but upload remains the same, So, Yes.

06-10-2020 2:50pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

So it only boosts the "incoming" signal, and not the outgoing signal?

Boosting the signal is still sending out a signal.

Ten Pin · 06-10-2020 3:16pm

it seems it's illegal in Ireland. Has anyone else got any experience with this and how much trouble can you get in for this? Also why are these antennas illegal? As far as I understand they are passive components. But I'm not an expert on antennas so please correct me.

Is this what you are referring to...

30/09/2020 Update:

We have been notified by Comreg that under the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1926, these antennas are not licenced to be used in The Republic of Ireland for the purposes of connecting into a mobile modem.

Hence we are only permitted to sell this item to users who confirm that they do not intend to use this antenna in Ireland

It doesn't say they're illegal...it just says they're not licenced....but they'll still sell it to you if you lie to them....seems a bizarre notice to issue and display on a product description.

Just buy from another seller that doesn't require such confirmation.

cruizer101 · 06-10-2020 3:31pm

There are legal boosteres available in Ireland. A few years ago comreg changed the regulations to allow for them.
I dont' know much abotu it myself but there are more details here
https://www.comreg.ie/consumer-information/mobile-phone/mobile-phone-repeaters/

bfclancy · 06-10-2020 3:37pm

ryan.rt94 wrote: »

I live in rural Ireland and have terrible internet as a result. We currently have 3 mobile broadband with the Huawei B593 router. I am thinking about buying an antenna for the router to improve the 4g signal. The two options I'm looking at are Poynting XPOL A0001 and Poynting XPOL A0002. I looked at these antennas on https://www.irishwireless.net/xpol-a0001 and it seems it's illegal in Ireland. Has anyone else got any experience with this and how much trouble can you get in for this? Also why are these antennas illegal? As far as I understand they are passive components. But I'm not an expert on antennas so please correct me.

i tried this as well, didn't work, make sure your issue is signal and not congestion on the line, if its congestion this antenna will not improve your speeds, did you look at the comreg site, you can input your eircode and it tells you which provider has best coverage in your area, i changed provider based on its recommendation and it has been great

jelem · 06-10-2020 4:11pm

bfclancy wrote: »

i tried this as well, didn't work, make sure your issue is signal and not congestion on the line, if its congestion this antenna will not improve your speeds, did you look at the comreg site, you can input your eircode and it tells you which provider has best coverage in your area, i changed provider based on its recommendation and it has been great

the issue of legal\illegal is an eu issue and as long as you comply with the bandwave
legislation there is no problem.
comreg is not independant and is part of government supported cartel and monoply
system. they advertise certain installers and equipment suppliers hence are
promoting those businesses.
you are free under eu legislation to purchase anywhere not just ireland.
and as long as it complies with the stated bands.
these are set by government which of itself is a restriction of your rights.
same as rte on seperate sat. system for which you had purchase different dish etc. whilst vast amount eu
and even bbc use the same set of sats.
irish government excuse "copyright" as if all other eu countries abuse that term to force use of and sale
of different equipment.
read eu legislation - install yourself - and any attempt by irias authorities then defence in eu court with
compensation. it is only way citizens can reign in corrupt FG and FF

bfclancy · 06-10-2020 8:10pm

jelem wrote: »

the issue of legal\illegal is an eu issue and as long as you comply with the bandwave
legislation there is no problem.
comreg is not independant and is part of government supported cartel and monoply
system. they advertise certain installers and equipment suppliers hence are
promoting those businesses.
you are free under eu legislation to purchase anywhere not just ireland.
and as long as it complies with the stated bands.
these are set by government which of itself is a restriction of your rights.
same as rte on seperate sat. system for which you had purchase different dish etc. whilst vast amount eu
and even bbc use the same set of sats.
irish government excuse "copyright" as if all other eu countries abuse that term to force use of and sale
of different equipment.
read eu legislation - install yourself - and any attempt by irias authorities then defence in eu court with
compensation. it is only way citizens can reign in corrupt FG and FF

What has that rant to do with what I posted

ryan.rt94 · 06-10-2020 10:24pm

Ish66 wrote: »

Nobody will even notice/bother. I dont know why it's not allowed but I would not give it a seconds thought. Tick the box, Order it and stick it up on the wall.
I hope it improves your signal

Thanks for your reply. I was thinking that too but my main concern is the antenna somehow causing interference and apparantley the mast owner can request comreg to investigate such interferences. So I'm just worried about that.

SteelyDanJalapeno · 06-10-2020 10:28pm

There are now legal options for this :

https://signalsolution.novatel.ie/

Ten Pin · 06-10-2020 11:05pm

Thanks for your reply. I was thinking that too but my main concern is the antenna somehow causing interference and apparantley the mast owner can request comreg to investigate such interferences. So I'm just worried about that.

I don't think there's much of a difference from a technical perspective between a 3G/4G antenna and a terrestrial TV aerial...both consist of passive radio wave reception elements with a larger area than a smaller internal antenna. Putting them at roof level in an outdoor location just reduces signal attenuation caused by buildings.

So all it does is receive the signal that's already outdoors and feeds it unamplified to the device indoors.

It's not like a mobile booster/repeater that amplifies a mobile signal and could cause interference to other devices if not installed correctly. A passive antenna that you are considering wouldn't interfere with anything.

It's unclear what that notice from Comreg is about, they don't specify which section of the act the antenna allegedly contravenes. Maybe there is a good technical reason....someone with more knowledge could maybe clarify either way.

If it was a choice between a 400e mobile booster and an 80e antenna, I know which I'd be buying.

There are other types of antenna to suit that are similar in construction to a TV aerial except that they are supplied in pairs. See here for an idea of what they look like...
https://www.eurodk.com/en/search?s=Iskra+mimo

ryan.rt94 · 07-10-2020 12:29am

Hey everyone, thanks a lot for all of your replies to my initial question. First I was thinking, that the antenna only acquires signal but then as GerrardKeating said this is bidirectional communication and some amplified signal will also be sent out. So I'm worried about this outgoing signal messing with the mast. It probably won't and I am more than likely worrying about nothing. It's just that I know very little about wireless signals and I'm not sure about the damage I could be causing.

un5byh7sqpd2x0 · 07-10-2020 12:33am

They’re not illegal but you do require a license to use them.

ryan.rt94 · 07-10-2020 12:36am

Ten Pin wrote: »

I don't think there's much of a difference from a technical perspective between a 3G/4G antenna and a terrestrial TV aerial...both consist of passive radio wave reception elements with a larger area than a smaller internal antenna. Putting them at roof level in an outdoor location just reduces signal attenuation caused by buildings.

So all it does is receive the signal that's already outdoors and feeds it unamplified to the device indoors.

It's not like a mobile booster/repeater that amplifies a mobile signal and could cause interference to other devices if not installed correctly. A passive antenna that you are considering wouldn't interfere with anything.

It's unclear what that notice from Comreg is about, they don't specify which section of the act the antenna allegedly contravenes. Maybe there is a good technical reason....someone with more knowledge could maybe clarify either way.

If it was a choice between a 400e mobile booster and an 80e antenna, I know which I'd be buying.

There are other types of antenna to suit that are similar in construction to a TV aerial except that they are supplied in pairs. See here for an idea of what they look like...
https://www.eurodk.com/en/search?s=Iskra+mimo

I agree that a terrestrial TV aeriel is similar to a 4g antenna but does a TV aerial send out signals too?

I am definitely more inclined to go with the antenna than a repeater anyway

It would be fantastic if someone could suggest how this antenna goes against the telepathy act.

Also thanks for the link you provided.

SteelyDanJalapeno · 07-10-2020 8:17am

The poynting link in the OP is completely legal, it's just receiving a 4g signal and piping it to a WiFi router with a 4g SIM card, I'm getting on average about 40mbps, in Cork City thou.

ryan.rt94 · 07-10-2020 8:29am

SteelyDanJalapeno wrote: »

The poynting link in the OP is completely legal, it's just receiving a 4g signal and piping it to a WiFi router with a 4g SIM card, I'm getting on average about 40mbps, in Cork City thou.

This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you! So on the website I posted it says it's not licensed for ”mobile modem”. So I guess it doesn't apply to a WiFi router?

40 Mbps would be ideal for me!

By the way how long have you had it?

SteelyDanJalapeno · 07-10-2020 8:36am

ryan.rt94 wrote: »

This is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you! So on the website I posted it says it's not licensed for ”mobile modem”. So I guess it doesn't apply to a WiFi router?

40 Mbps would be ideal for me!

By the way how long have you had it?

Not quite sure what they mean by mobile modem, I know you're not suppose to pipe it into a repeater to boost 4g signal, so that's probably it.

I've had mine about 6 months, we're limited to 8mbps line in our apartment, so we've ditched that altogether and now use this solution full time, it's perfect.

You may not get 40mbps out the country, but you can certainly increase your chances by placing the receiver outside on a pole or the side of your house, pointing in the direction of whatever mast has 4g for your network.

You can find the best mast for you here on the comreg site viewer site

https://www.comreg.ie/industry/radio-spectrum/site-viewer/

And you'll need a 4g WiFi router, I got an Archer, works well

Ten Pin · 07-10-2020 12:00pm

I agree that a terrestrial TV aerial is similar to a 4g antenna but does a TV aerial send out signals too?

Fair point, all TV is via downlink reception.

Mobile is downlink and uplink but it's mostly downlink. Depending on your usage, uplink traffic can be 10% or less of downlink traffic. You'd have to uplinking from a streaming media server to have any equality of uplink/downlink traffic volume. The mobile network is asymmetrical to prioritise downlink traffic.

So on the website I posted it says it's not licensed for ”mobile modem”. So I guess it doesn't apply to a WiFi router?

Most, if not all, consumer routers are a combined modem, router and WiFi access point in one unit. If there wasn't a modem there'd be no way to utilise the mobile signal.

On the antenna band compatibility aspect of it, try to get one that has 700MHz included as that band will be used in the future for rural mobile transmission.

IMO they're trying to push people towards buying boosters instead of antennas. A booster would be useful in a location with poor outdoor signal whereas an antenna is more useful where it's just the indoor signal that's poor but outdoor is sufficient.

Hoagy · 07-10-2020 12:11pm

This seller hasn't had the letter yet.

https://www.maxbitt.ie/network-aerials.html?scroll=95.80000305175781

ryan.rt94 · 07-10-2020 8:04pm

So I think I'm going to go ahead with the antenna guys. Thanks everyone for the helpful replies.

Now I'm deciding between Poynting XPOL A001 or Poynting XPOL A002. The A001 is Omni directional while A002 is directional. A002 is around twice as expensive but does have higher gain. From what I understand, directional antennas require line of sight. Now here's something I'm a bit confused about. Does line of sight mean exactly that? So let's say a small tree is blocking the line between, the antenna and the mast, does that mean I've lost "line of sight" or are there varying degrees of line of sight? Is it possible a directional antenna of higher gain can possibly do worse than a lower gain omnidirectional antenna?

I'm fairly set on buying a Poynting antenna because from what I understand, they have a great reputation. Can anyone comment on this?

Ten Pin · 07-10-2020 8:30pm

If you're sure which direction the mast is in then the directional one is better.

If there are 2 masts that you can receive from the omni will give lower signal gain but can receive from one mast if the other is down or congested.

Receiving from more than one mast simultaneously allows for higher throughput if the provider has implemented carrier aggregation on those masts.

Regarding line of sight, that's not really as much of an issue in rural areas as the frequencies used are lower and therefore signals propagate further.

Obviously a mountain in between or a mature forest close to your house will have a negative impact on signal level but otherwise just put the antenna at as high an elevation as possible, pointing towards the mast.

ryan.rt94 · 08-10-2020 1:24am

Ten Pin wrote: »

If you're sure which direction the mast is in then the directional one is better.

If there are 2 masts that you can receive from them omni will give lower signal gain but can receive from one mast if the other is down or congested.

Receiving from more than one mast simultaneously allows for higher throughput if the provider has implemented carrier aggregation on those masts.

Regarding line of sight, that's not really as much of an issue in rural areas as the frequencies used are lower and therefore signals propagate further.

Obviously a mountain in between or a mature forest close to your house will have a negative impact on signal level but otherwise just put the antenna at as high an elevation as possible, pointing towards the mast.

Thank you very much, for the information. I'm going for the directional antenna. I'm looking forward to learning more about this stuff. I will let you guys know how I get on anyway

bobbyy gee · 08-10-2020 2:04am

I would but from aliexpress half the price

Anything sold in europe is legal but not powerfully

Any anthenna is legal and it's not sending a signal

I would look at fiber broadband it's in a lot of places now

There was a good youtube boosters slow signal down as it only gets one signal vs many

Fiber roll out look up your address

https://fibrerollout.ie/rollout-map/

bobbyy gee · 08-10-2020 2:14am

bobbyy gee wrote: »

I would but from aliexpress half the price

Anything sold in mj9 is legal but not powerfully

Any anthenna is legal and it's not sending a signal

I would look at fiber broadband it's in a lot of places now

There was a good youtube boosters slow signal down as it only gets one signal vs many

Fiber roll out look up your address

https://fibrerollout.ie/rollout-map/

https://fibrerollout.ie/rollout-map/

4g antenna illegal in Ireland

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