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Should all Guards be armed?

  • 28-04-2019 11:04am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭


    Probably has been discussed before but at a time when it looks like there is a new pretend IRA group up and coming, Atm robberies but armed gangs, drug gangs and local armed feuds it seems to me that the guards are unable to cope or get a handle on these armed criminals. Is arming all Guards the answer?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭killanena


    I don't believe they all should be but there needs to be an increased number and presents of armed units in these area's.

    Guards are prone to human error and accidents would happen. You are also putting the guards life more at risk when arming them.

    It would also help if more effort was put into preventing and investigating these crimes over issuing tickets. I'm not 100% sure on the matter but I heard guards are given a quota to meet on fines and get in trouble if its not met? A bit ridiculous if that's the case because if there is less fines it just means their doing they're job right.


  • Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭shopper2011


    Gerry G wrote:
    Probably has been discussed before but at a time when it looks like there is a new pretend IRA group up and coming, Atm robberies but armed gangs, drug gangs and local armed feuds it seems to me that the guards are unable to cope or get a handle on these armed criminals. Is arming all Guards the answer?


    No. Arming Guards solves nothing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    More definitely needed but there are a lot I wouldn't trust with a rubber stamp never mind a gun.

    Some are absolutely terrible at their job and should be weeded out for how terrible they are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Infernal Racket


    No. Arming Guards solves nothing.

    So how do they deal with the current situation in Ireland?


  • Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭shopper2011


    Gerry G wrote:
    So how do they deal with the current situation in Ireland?


    What situation?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭Tomas81


    Gerry G wrote: »
    So how do they deal with the current situation in Ireland?

    Have you forgotten the **** ups the armed Garda in this country have already had? Or are you quite young?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    The armed units we have are private body guards for the drug gangs.

    The armed units do nothing while driving around the city but watch over these scum bags and protect them.

    Why aren't they out stopping the scum that are terrorising communities up and down the country.

    So much getting away with anything they want.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,074 ✭✭✭RiderOnTheStorm


    I don't agree with arming all gardai for the simple reason that I don't think Irish beurocracy can cope with the increase in training, management, maintenance, repair, replacement, oversight etc that it would bring. We cant train all gardai to drive on blues n 2s. We cant keep serviced vehicles running 24x7 for gardai, ambulance etc. Broadband only in larger stations. . . . We have armed gardai & detective, so no to more guns.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Infernal Racket


    Tomas81 wrote: »
    Have you forgotten the **** ups the armed Garda in this country have already had? Or are you quite young?

    Explain to me what f**k ups have the armed guards had? If you're talking about Abbeylara, I wouldn't consider it a f**k up


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Infernal Racket


    What situation?

    I think you know exactly the situation I'm talking about. If you don't, you should watch the news some more


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  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭Tomas81


    Gerry G wrote: »
    Explain to me what f**k ups have the armed guards had? If you're talking about Abbeylara, I wouldn't consider it a f**k up

    1)John Morris unarmed shot dead.
    2) Abbeylara was very much a **** up.
    3) Portobello bridge August 2017
    4)granard This year
    5) Tomas mikaljunas

    There's 5 incidents off top of my head. AGS are one of the most incapable police forces the world over.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Infernal Racket


    Tomas81 wrote: »
    1)John Morris unarmed shot dead.
    2) Abbeylara was very much a **** up.
    3) Portobello bridge August 2017
    4)granard This year
    5) Tomas mikaljunas

    There's 5 incidents off top of my head. AGS are one of the most incapable police forces the world over.

    I'll grant you that the last one was a complete balls up but none of the others were and if you think that the Irish guards are one if the most incapable forces in the world then you haven't any experience with police in other countries. Our closest neighbour's the PSNI are a complete shambles compared to the Irish Police


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,418 ✭✭✭Infernal Racket


    More definitely needed but there are a lot I wouldn't trust with a rubber stamp never mind a gun.

    Some are absolutely terrible at their job and should be weeded out for how terrible they are.

    Fully agree, I've had dealings with Guards in the past who wouldn't find Wally never mind solve a crime


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,768 ✭✭✭Odelay


    Gerry G wrote: »
    I think you know exactly the situation I'm talking about. If you don't, you should watch the news some more

    Is it a secret? Spill the beans.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Gerry G wrote: »
    I'll grant you that the last one was a complete balls up but none of the others were and if you think that the Irish guards are one if the most incapable forces in the world then you haven't any experience with police in other countries. Our closest neighbour's the PSNI are a complete shambles compared to the Irish Police

    No. The cops here are a disaster. A running joke. Nobody respects them anymore.
    And why would they?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    My son is a Guard as is several of my extended family. None of them want to be armed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭Tomas81


    Gerry G wrote: »
    I'll grant you that the last one was a complete balls up but none of the others were and if you think that the Irish guards are one if the most incapable forces in the world then you haven't any experience with police in other countries. Our closest neighbour's the PSNI are a complete shambles compared to the Irish Police

    So portobello bridge when the garda took a man from his car after a cinema date with his partner accused him of an armed robbery then shot him? Was that not a balls up hahaha.

    John Morris unarmed burgling a building shot dead, that ok also.

    The Garda in Longford shot a man and a dog while under no threat hahaha 3 Garda sacked in those incidents but your saying it was fine. Hahaha

    And I'm from Northern Ireland originally well versed in the RUC and PSNI. AGS are worse.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Gerry G wrote:
    Explain to me what f**k ups have the armed guards had? If you're talking about Abbeylara, I wouldn't consider it a f**k up


    Can you explain why you don't think Abbeylara was a f**k up?


  • Registered Users Posts: 260 ✭✭pale rider


    Gardai should have tazers, there are enough guns in the force already, life is tough at the coal face, somewhat easier to slag off behind our keyboards.

    Reality is that they are the thin blue line, we need them properly resourced and motivated with a supportive judiciciary and sentences that get served.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,230 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    I believe all police should be armed, the gun culture and problems that go with it are not solved by it but not caused by it either.

    I remember a comparison a few years back which referenced a US police shooting incident where more shots were fired than by every police officer in Germany in an entire year. In civilised countries they are there to protect the officers and public, and nothing more, and in the EU generally are used as an absolute last resort.

    That said, a root and branch reform of An Garda Síochána is needed with much more urgency. The force is demoralised, dishevelled, ill equipped, understaffed, under-resourced and the average cop underpaid, and top management have been proven to be absolutely corrupt. The cop on the street isn't to blame but probably under performs because they are managed by morons and have morale to match.
    Fixing all this is a lot easier than buying 10,000 handguns and should be a prerequisite to arming under-trained and jaded guards.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭Tomas81


    sdanseo wrote: »
    I believe all police should be armed, the gun culture and problems that go with it are not solved by it but not caused by it either.

    I remember a comparison a few years back which referenced a US police shooting incident where more shots were fired than by every police officer in Germany in an entire year. In civilised countries they are there to protect the officers and public, and nothing more, and in the EU generally are used as an absolute last resort.

    That said, a root and branch reform of An Garda Síochána is needed with much more urgency. The force is demoralised, dishevelled, ill equipped, understaffed, under-resourced and the average cop underpaid, and top management have been proven to be absolutely corrupt. The cop on the street isn't to blame but probably under performs because they are managed by morons and have morale to match.
    Fixing all this is a lot easier than buying 10,000 handguns and should be a prerequisite to arming under-trained and jaded guards.

    Issue is arming the likes of Seamus from Leitrim who was bullied as a child who doesn't go through any psychiatric checks when joining the AGS then next you have trigger happy headcases with a license to kill.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,230 ✭✭✭sdanseo


    Tomas81 wrote: »
    Issue is arming the likes of Seamus from Leitrim who was bullied as a child who doesn't go through any psychiatric checks when joining the AGS then next you have trigger happy headcases with a license to kill.

    Exactly.
    sdanseo wrote: »
    Fixing all this is a lot easier than buying 10,000 handguns and should be a prerequisite to arming under-trained and jaded guards.


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Tomas81 wrote: »
    So portobello bridge when the garda took a man from his car after a cinema date with his partner accused him of an armed robbery then shot him? Was that not a balls up hahaha.

    John Morris unarmed burgling a building shot dead, that ok also.

    The Garda in Longford shot a man and a dog while under no threat hahaha 3 Garda sacked in those incidents but your saying it was fine. Hahaha

    And I'm from Northern Ireland originally well versed in the RUC and PSNI. AGS are worse.

    No Gardai were sacked in those incidents. First one is under investigation, pretty sure the shooting will be found to be lawful.
    John Morris was an active inla man on duty.
    You don't know what threat the guard in longford was under.
    You clearly know nothing about other police forces if you think AGS are one of the worst!

    OP, no I don't believe all Gardai should be armed, there are in fact a huge amount of gardai authorised to carry firearms, they may need deploying differently however.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,299 ✭✭✭✭BloodBath


    No, the majority of guards are idiots who couldn't handle the responsibility of a deadly weapon.

    Keep it to the special units for the rare occasions that it is needed.


  • Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Tomas81 wrote: »
    Issue is arming the likes of Seamus from Leitrim who was bullied as a child who doesn't go through any psychiatric checks when joining the AGS then next you have trigger happy headcases with a license to kill.

    Like the IRA?


  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭Tomas81


    bubblypop wrote: »
    No Gardai were sacked in those incidents. First one is under investigation, pretty sure the shooting will be found to be lawful.
    John Morris was an active inla man on duty.
    You don't know what threat the guard in longford was under.
    You clearly know nothing about other police forces if you think AGS are one of the worst!

    OP, no I don't believe all Gardai should be armed, there are in fact a huge amount of gardai authorised to carry firearms, they may need deploying differently however.

    3 Garda were sacked. Armed Garda for John Morris was sacked fact, I sat in the court when the Commisioner stated it. Read my posts you will see why.

    Garda has been suspended without pay in the Portobello issue and won't be ruled lawful guy had just left swan cinema and was shot, Shane Thomas was the injured man's name.


  • Registered Users Posts: 407 ✭✭Tomas81


    bubblypop wrote: »
    Like the IRA?

    We knew how to use them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Tomas81 wrote: »
    3 Garda were sacked. Armed Garda for John Morris was sacked fact, I sat in the court when the Commisioner stated it. Read my posts you will see why.

    Garda has been suspended without pay in the Portobello issue and won't be ruled lawful guy had just left swan cinema and was shot, Shane Thomas was the injured man's name.

    Didn't hear of Portobello one, what's the story behind that one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭NaFirinne


    Why not be like America and have everyone that wants to be armed - be armed.

    Then we won't need guards we can just protect ourselves.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    Why not be like America and have everyone that wants to be armed - be armed.

    Then we won't need guards we can just protect ourselves.

    Could you imagine....


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