DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

21-12-2005 12:51am

Northern Correspondent wrote:

On another note, apparently Digital 1 commenced broadcasting from Blaenpwylf yesterday. Any possible reception reports in the South-East?

Hmmm
I must get a Dab.
I can get analog TV from Blaenplwf.
Afaik, it's about 60 miles due East of Arklow.The local rowing club and sailing club often do the crossing.
I've sometimes got Dtt from there.

I'm more interested in Arfon.It must be practically line of sight from here if you had uber bionic eyes.
I mean no obstacles and just a perfect sea path.
I say that because Arfon analog TV reception here is crystal.
I know if I was on croghan mountain now,I'd get Blaenplwf's Dab, no problems,I say-its 2000 ft ASL and overlooking the Irish sea.

Heh! maybe I'll order one on line now and go up there on the 27th or 28th and experience a blizzard while I'm at it-kill two birds with one stone

(yes it might snow after Xmas folks)

lawhec · 21-12-2005 1:11am

Earthman wrote:

I'm more interested in Arfon.It must be practically line of sight from here if you had uber bionic eyes.
I mean no obstacles and just a perfect sea path.
I say that because Arfon analog TV reception here is crystal.
I know if I was on croghan mountain now,I'd get Blaenplwf's Dab, no problems,I say-its 2000 ft ASL and overlooking the Irish sea.

Heh! maybe I'll order one on line now and go up there on the 27th or 28th and experience a blizzard while I'm at it-kill two birds with one stone

(yes it might snow after Xmas folks)

Arfon is one of the future Digital 1 transmission sites planned. No plans for its use from the BBC though.

watty · 21-12-2005 2:01pm

byte wrote:

Oooh, this is indeed most interesting. So I guess they've scrapped the idea of using DRM, and will use DAB instead. As it's BandIII, will this cause any conflicts with services already on BandIII already? RTE on Truskmore, for example, or the cable co's use Band III also.

I do have sources I can't reveal.

DRM is going to happen on RTE LW and MW. They are doing remote monitoring of Irish TX sites in UK (I maybe shouldn't have said that!).

The main market in UK for DAB seems to be mobile Car Radio as those not interested stick to VHF-FM in home and those wanting Quality are using the 70 Radio stations on "Sky".

Oddlly Homebase in Limerick has a huge display of DAB radio.

"No Signal Received"

If anyone lend me a DAB set I can see if it is receivable on the Arra Mountains next time I check the repeater up there. A handheld with rubber duck and 0.5W works Mt Lienster and Dundalk UHF and VHF repeaters from there. Perfect quality. On TX actually Dundalk and Dungarvin (Helvic Head) BOTH open (Same Frequency).

Also normally West Tyrone repeater works from there too. I think it is broken right now.

Arra Mountains are in Tipp. beside Ballina/Killaloe not far north of Limerick City.

I have OPTICAL line of site to there from Patrickswell. A private Microwave link and some DTT & DAB gear with a suitable aerial Arrays would be interesting.

lawhec · 21-12-2005 2:56pm

I got a message back from RTÉ reception about the trial.

* As expected, the two transmitter sites involved will be Three Rock and Clermont Carn.
* The trail will use DAB Channel 12C
* The transmissions from Clermont Carn will be directional away from Northern Ireland. They don't expect me to receive their service but if I do, they said they'd be happy to hear from me again. So I take it they'll be happy to accept reception reports from different places.

lawhec · 21-12-2005 3:02pm

The main market in UK for DAB seems to be mobile Car Radio as those not interested stick to VHF-FM in home and those wanting Quality are using the 70 Radio stations on "Sky".

It's far from it Watty. I read recently that only 1 in 200 new cars being sold in the UK have a DAB tuner as standard. The vast majority of DAB sets being sold are portable table top radios. For Hi-Fi systems, there are only a handful of DAB tuners out there though there are tuners you can get in Dixons to add on through an AUX socket for around £30. For proper setups, VHF-FM is still hugely popular, as is Sky but Freeview also has a small but significant following. Its no co-incidence that many Freeview boxes are cheaper than DAB sets in the UK either - hooked up to an existing TV aerial, there's over 25 stations available - take a stereo phono lead out to the hi-fi and you're set up.

watty · 21-12-2005 6:05pm

Sound fairly dismal for DAB the small number of cars. And that is the biggest "market segment" for some categories of people.

Are the qty of Dab Tabletops skewed by availability of decent sized Table top radios?

byrnefm · 21-12-2005 7:02pm

Northern Correspondent wrote:

I got a message back from RTÉ reception about the trial.

Hiya,

who did you contact at RTÉ? Just wondering as I'd send them on reception reports also, if they're looking for them.

Cheers,
..Francis

DMC · 21-12-2005 7:54pm

Yes, I wonder are they looking for reception reports.... Any word on how much power they are using??

deaglan169 · 21-12-2005 8:00pm

hi i recently bought a "matsui dab audio adapter da-1" here is a list of the stations im receiving from the 1 foot long piece of antenna wire that comes standard with the adapter,
Score N.I MUX
classic
3c
citybeat
cool fm
downtown
kiss
q102.9
primetime
BBC Divis MUX
Radio 1
R2
R3
R4
1xtra
6 Music
5 Live
SportX
Asian
World
BBC 7
Ulster

i was just wondering if anyone else receiving the same MUX's as myself are getting more stations,or if anyone in the same area as myself are receiving other MUX's,I am hoping to modify the antenna and make and external jack,when i do a manual search i am receiving other stations but they aren't coming above the minimum signal required for reception.any help or info would be great

Dec

DMC · 21-12-2005 8:23pm

Hi and welcome. No, you wont recieve any more stations from the Score NI mux than you already have. Just on your list there, the BBC mux is a national one, and has no local stations on it. BBC Radio Ulster is actually on the Score NI mux. Some BBC English counties local radio depend on the local commercial mux owner to get on DAB.

Ofcom are going to address this....

Ofcom's releases today...

Ofcom today published its final statement on the further development of Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB) radio.

Ofcom will allocate three blocks of VHF Band III spectrum to fill the gaps in local multiplex coverage, so providing the opportunity to every part of the UK to receive local DAB Digital Radio services (including both commercial and BBC local and nations radio services), and one block to a further national commercial multiplex to provide additional choice for as many listeners as possible.

It has also published a consultation to seek views on the licensing process for this additional local and national DAB capacity.

The full documents can be found below.

Statement on Radio Licensing Policy for VHF Band III:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/vhf/statement/

Consultation - The Future Licensing of DAB Digital Radio:
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/dab/

From MediaGuardian

Digital radio coverage to rise

http://media.guardian.co.uk/radio/story/0,12636,1672061,00.html

Julia Day
Wednesday December 21, 2005

Ofcom has confirmed it will plug the gaps in the UK's digital radio coverage by making spectrum available for new local and national digital multiplexes.

The media regulator's decision means that every part of the country will eventually be able to receive digital radio broadcasts. At the moment 37 areas of the UK have no local digital stations including Dumfries, Caernarfon and Northampton.

The Ofcom chief executive, Stephen Carter, said: "Additional capacity allows more radio services to join television and telecoms in the transition to digital. For listeners, this new capacity will mean more choice, more new services and greater coverage."

However, the regulator's decision to release a new national digital multiplex - a group of radio licences - is likely to anger GCap Media, the majority shareholder of the only existing national digital multiplex apart from the BBC, Digital One.

Ralph Bernard, the GCap chief executive, warned in July that he would take Ofcom to a judicial review if it proceeded with releasing more UK-wide digital spectrum. He believes that Digital One's investment in building the UK's digital radio industry from scratch should be protected.

Ofcom said in October that the services on the new national multiplex should cater for tastes "distinct" from those on Digital One. But GCap said it was still considering taking legal action.

MediaGuardian.co.uk contacted GCap for a response to today's Ofcom decision but it had not returned calls by the time of publication.

Other radio companies are keen to get their hands on a new national licence.

Dee Ford, the managing director of Emap Radio, has said her company would bid for a national multiplex and is exploring the options of doing this as a joint venture.

"An extension of consumer choice is great, with the multiplex under the Broadcasting Act is superb. Big swaths of white space will be filled up and digital radio will finally be considered a viable option," Ms Ford said recently.

It is seeking views through a consultation on how the new multiplexes should be licensed and by what criteria the licences should be awarded.

This includes broadening the range of programmes on local multiplexes and the ability to promote digital take-up on the national multiplex to help to sustain and grow digital radio in the UK.

deaglan169 · 21-12-2005 8:28pm

thanks for your help hopefully ofcom will pass that and we will see more stations hopefully in the new year

Antenna · 21-12-2005 9:41pm

Northern Correspondent wrote:

Cable? It dependson the infastructure of the network. Hearing stories of the NTL network in Dublin, don't be surprised to hear of any tales of interference :rolleyes:

If subscribers are using poor quality cable (bad shielding), and poor quality splitters instead of proper metal ones there could well be problems.
Many coax plugs are badly made up by DIYers with outer having poor contact etc. This will let interference in.

I remember reading cable interference did indeed happen to many people when DAB was being tested in the Netherlands, cable subscribers had to replace poor quality cable with "CT100" type, replace unshielded splitters etc to solve the problems.

L1011 · 21-12-2005 10:30pm

DMC wrote:

I think the Roberts radios are made in the UK, I dont see a "Made in China" on my DAB radio or box, but then again, it doesn't say "Made in Britain" either. :rolleyes:
.

I think they're made in Louth

Roberts left UK ownership about 11 years ago IIRC. Now owned by the formerly Northern Irish now Irish Glen Dimplex and I -think- they're made here. Neither of mine have any "Made In" statement on the radio that I can find, though.

lawhec · 22-12-2005 2:12am

OK, time to pick some posts...

Sound fairly dismal for DAB the small number of cars. And that is the biggest "market segment" for some categories of people.

Are the qty of Dab Tabletops skewed by availability of decent sized Table top radios?

I don't entirely understand what you mean Watty. The DAB radio I have myself is a "table-top", an Acousitc Solutions Portal 2 DAB / FM receiver that I got a year ago. Best thing about it is that its whip aerial can be disconnected and be connected to an external aerial through an F-Socket. When the BBC Mux was still only coming from Divis up until the Spring, I had a set of rabbit ears hooked up in the attic connected to the Portal 2 which pulled it in very well - with the whip aerial, not a sniff. Through reading reviews it seems that these receivers and the Evoke Pure range are among the most sensitive.

http://www.acousticsolutions.net/product.asp?ID=176

Hiya,

who did you contact at RTÉ? Just wondering as I'd send them on reception reports also, if they're looking for them.

Yes, I wonder are they looking for reception reports.... Any word on how much power they are using??

Well an email I got back from them said that if I was to pickup their tests, they'd like to hear from me again so I'm sure they would like some feedback, it wouldn't really harm much I guess especially if you gave some details (receiver used, aerial etc.)

i was just wondering if anyone else receiving the same MUX's as myself are getting more stations,or if anyone in the same area as myself are receiving other MUX's,I am hoping to modify the antenna and make and external jack,when i do a manual search i am receiving other stations but they aren't coming above the minimum signal required for reception.any help or info would be great

If you're getting labels for other stations youmust be living somewhere hugely high up and picking up stations from across the water :eek:. Alas there are currently no more DAB stations in N.I. broadcasting at the moment, and there is unlikely to be more until VHF television starts to shut down in the Republic.

On the Ofcom report today, it looks like they're going to offer blocks 10B-11A for DAB broadcasting in the near future as long as they can get international clearence for them next year (there's a big ITU conference due next year to finalise frequencies for DTT, and various digital radio services including DAB and DRM). On paper it won't be possible to extend these frequencies across Northern Ireland - the block 11 frequencies are already null because of Truskmore (RTÉ1), the block 10 frequencies will be troublesome as they lie on the same frequencies as TV channels from Kippure and Maghera.

Once again in the report Digital 1 mention that they'd like to expand into N.Ireland but Ofcom have so far refused to allow them. I've already said on D*****l S*y that they could probably get away with using block 11D to serve Greater Belfast without casuing too much trouble to viewers of Truskmore, including within NI itself.

If subscribers are using poor quality cable (bad shielding), and poor quality splitters instead of proper metal ones there could well be problems.
Many coax plugs are badly made up by DIYers with outer having poor contact etc. This will let interference in.

I remember reading cable interference did indeed happen to many people when DAB was being tested in the Netherlands, cable subscribers had to replace poor quality cable with "CT100" type, replace unshielded splitters etc to solve the problems.

I read about these problems in the Netherlands myself, I think these DAB transmissions were delayed because of it. And with the stories of the cable network in Dublin being strung from house to house and it being as leaky as f**k, I won't be surprised to hear problems arising. Didn't an RTÉ DTT test on VHF Band III Channel D from Three Rock Mountain had to be brought to a premature end because it interfered with a channel on the cable network?

Looking forward to the New Year now, I'm looking forward to this challenge.

Now as a little addition, some photos of the DAB lift from about a month ago - not bad getting block 11 DAB signals with Truskmore in full swing! The Digital 1 reception on 11D was thought to come from NW England, either Caldbeck or Winter Hill.

lawhec · 22-12-2005 2:28am

And four more...

DMC · 22-12-2005 10:29am

Wow. Lancashire local muxes :eek:

DMC · 28-12-2005 11:37am

UTV interested in Ofcom's DAB expansion??

UTV and Channel 4 weigh up bids for digital radio network

By Amanda Andrews
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,9071-1953021,00.html

BROADCASTERS including UTV and Channel 4 are considering bids for a new national digital network of radio licences to be sold by Ofcom, the industry regulator.

It is thought that BT, Absolute Radio, the radio investor and consultancy group, Emap and Chrysalis, the radio groups, and Macquarie, the Australian private equity investor, are considering bids.

The regulator announced the sale of the licences yesterday. Its decision means that every part of the country eventually will be able to receive digital radio broadcasts. At present, 37 areas have no local digital stations, including Dumfries, Caernarfon and Northampton. Ofcom is not expected simply to award the licences to the highest bidder. Bidders will have to show a detailed business proposal and prove that they have the resources to invest in such a network.

UTV, which bought The Wireless Group, owner of TALKsport, from Kelvin MacKenzie in May, is keen to have a greater presence in UK radio and has confirmed that it is considering making an offer.

Media groups are most likely to make joint bids for the spectrum. Channel 4 already has held informal talks with Emap, owner of the Kiss and Magic stations, about making a joint offer for the network. It has not yet decided if it will team up with Emap and will be speaking to other media groups. Channel 4 already has a 51 per cent stake in OneWord, a radio station on the Digital One national network.

BT said that it is considering bidding for the new digital radio spectrum. The company wants extra digital capacity for new services such as its Livetime joint venture pilot project with Vodafone, which broadcasts live television and radio on mobile phones.

A BT spokesman said: “BT Livetime is evaluating a number of options which could enable it to expand its range of mobile broadcast services in the future. These options include bidding for future digital spectrum.”

Ofcom is keen to avoid a possible legal dispute with GCap Media, the country’s largest commercial radio group and majority shareholder in the Digital One national network. GCap has threatened to sue Ofcom if it goes ahead with the new national digital network in competition with Digital One.

A GCap spokesman said: “This decision is disappointing, but by no means a surprise. It is unhelpful that this announcement has been made just two days before Christmas. As there is no appeals process in the regulatory framework, our only option may still be a judicial review.”

A national digital network could prove attractive to international media players, such as Emmis Communications, the American radio group, and RTL, the German media giant.

MAKING WAVES

# Ofcom says that it will plug the gaps in digital radio coverage by making spectrum available for new local and national groups of radio licences

# Every part of the country will be able to receive digital radio broadcasts, although at present 37 areas have no local digital stations

# The release of new spectrum will lead to the creation of new digital radio stations

# The present national digital network, Digital One, is a joint venture backed by GCap and NTL

Propellerhead · 28-12-2005 7:20pm

My sources indicate that the broadcasting hours for the first three days of January will be 0600 to 0800.

From the fourth onwards I understand that the hours will then extend to (I think) 2000.

I have no information as to what stations will broadcast yet.

deaglan169 · 28-12-2005 8:46pm

hi has anyone noticed that the score mux is off the air today the 28th dec,i havent moved my dab radio or antenna the bbc mux is working but high error rate 50 are so,has anyone else noticed are is it a problem my end

lawhec · 28-12-2005 9:32pm

deaglan169 wrote:

hi has anyone noticed that the score mux is off the air today the 28th dec,i havent moved my dab radio or antenna the bbc mux is working but high error rate 50 are so,has anyone else noticed are is it a problem my end

I'm still able to get both but each of them are at a lower signal level than normal in my case.

deaglan169 · 28-12-2005 10:37pm

my signals were 2 bars above the minimum required but tonight the bbc mux is coming in but it is only on the limit must be on reduced power does the score mux come from divis aswell?

DMC · 28-12-2005 11:03pm

Score is on Black Mountain, iirc.

No reports of tx work on the BBC Reception site.

Solair · 29-12-2005 10:16am

Without the BBC behind it, DAB here will be a flop.

RTE simply don't have enough content and are not large enough to produce enough content to produce a DAB service that is anything other than a poor quality digital mirror of FM services.

Today FM could provide some news music stations perhaps?

Newstalk or some other outfit might want to go with a national news service.

The independent local stations will have very little commercial interest in DAB as they are quite happy with the status quo. In fact, the smaller stations (i.e. non-Dublin/Cork) in particular, will have a vested interest in making sure that DAB doesn't allow FM104, 98FM, RedFM, 96FM (UTV & Co) etc to go nationwide eating into local revenues.

Richard · 29-12-2005 2:50pm

If UTV get interested in the ROI DAB market (which seems likely) then I would have thought that talkSport being available is also very likely.

DMC · 29-12-2005 3:35pm

Solair wrote:

Without the BBC behind it, DAB here will be a flop.

I cant really see the BBC getting behind this, because its completely the opposite to television. With radio, there has been no real history over the past 30 years of BBC Radio being widely available via FM. Of course Radio 5 Live and 4 LW are clearly available, but I dont hear that many people wanting the other BBC radio stations like R1 and R2. I hardly listen to BBC Radio via conventional methods anymore, in fact, I didn't listen to BBC Radio on FM much at all.

What I mean is, in Ireland, there was always been a lot of people looking to get BBC tv, but not so much radio.

lawhec · 29-12-2005 8:55pm

Without the BBC behind it, DAB here will be a flop.

Well if that's the case then DAB is bound to be a flop. The chances of BBC stations being on DAB on a FTA basis in the Irish Republic are about as close to nil as you can get.

RTE simply don't have enough content and are not large enough to produce enough content to produce a DAB service that is anything other than a poor quality digital mirror of FM services.

Partly agree. There is no real scope for a permenant expansion of RTÉ Radio right now. However DAB would allow them to perhaps provide more regular "secondary" services such as sports commentary opt-outs from RTÉ Radio 1 (a la BBC 5 live sports extra) and possibly look at programming for immigrant communities like they had on 612 MW a few years back. Aside from that its difficult to think what else RTÉ could do, the only other option would be to say allow the likes of WRN to "share" their multiplex (or any other broadcaster that shares a public information interest, possibly the BBC World Service).

Today FM could provide some news music stations perhaps?

The only thing I could see Today FM do is perhaps run a dual-channel station, one with news and sport and another concentrating on music, with a mixture of the two "simulcast" on FM.

Newstalk or some other outfit might want to go with a national news service.

Bear in mind that at the moment, the Irish Republic only has two Band III allocations, one for RTÉ and another for commercial radio used nationwide. Therefore the "commercial" multiplex would be ideal for stations looking for a national audience. There's certainly no doubt that the likes of Newstalk would be very keen, but even then they'd probably prefer using an MW transmitter rather than DAB to begin with.

The independent local stations will have very little commercial interest in DAB as they are quite happy with the status quo. In fact, the smaller stations (i.e. non-Dublin/Cork) in particular, will have a vested interest in making sure that DAB doesn't allow FM104, 98FM, RedFM, 96FM (UTV & Co) etc to go nationwide eating into local revenues.

Agreed but if this trial proves to be successful then its almost certain that at some point in the near future the national commercial multiplex would be licenced out and these locals would be like King Canute trying to hold back the tide.

If UTV get interested in the ROI DAB market (which seems likely) then I would have thought that talkSport being available is also very likely.

Isn't talkSport blocked to RoI Sky subscribers?

I cant really see the BBC getting behind this, because its completely the opposite to television. With radio, there has been no real history over the past 30 years of BBC Radio being widely available via FM. Of course Radio 5 Live and 4 LW are clearly available, but I dont hear that many people wanting the other BBC radio stations like R1 and R2. I hardly listen to BBC Radio via conventional methods anymore, in fact, I didn't listen to BBC Radio on FM much at all.

What I mean is, in Ireland, there was always been a lot of people looking to get BBC tv, but not so much radio.

I always thought there was a small but loyal following for BBC Radios 1 & 2 in the Republic but that it was never anywhere near enough to rival the TV interest. But as I've already said, the chances of the domestic BBC radio stations being on DAB in the Republic are very very slim.

L1011 · 29-12-2005 10:48pm

RTE already do opt-outs for sporting evens on 567 and 252 as compared to FM, I'd expect both to be carried on DAB on a nationwide basis - they're both carried on satellite seperately, and the MW/LW version is whats on Hotbird

DMC · 29-12-2005 10:50pm

Going OT, Talksport is still unavailable to Irish Sky subscribers, but why that hasnt changed, or that UTV havent made it FTA, is probably down to the fact that they have a deal with Sky to honour.

The current opt-outs on Radio 1, such as Second Helpings in MW Saturday and Sunday afternoons, and extended sports coverage would be excellent on DAB.

marclt · 30-12-2005 1:14pm

DMC wrote:

Going OT, Talksport is still unavailable to Irish Sky subscribers, but why that hasnt changed, or that UTV havent made it FTA, is probably down to the fact that they have a deal with Sky to honour.

The current opt-outs on Radio 1, such as Second Helpings in MW Saturday and Sunday afternoons, and extended sports coverage would be excellent on DAB.

I hope the signal travels as far as us over here in Wales... on the top of the Preseli's you can always pick up the Dublin commercial stations... might be worth my while heading up there with the portable!!

DMC · 30-12-2005 1:17pm

There is a good chance, as the Dublin commercial stations are all sited on Three Rock, which is where the DAB trial will come from.

DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

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