How will schools be able to go back in September?

Boggles · 20-07-2020 2:22pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

We're talking about government departments here. If no broadband is available at the school, then the NBP needs to prioritise schools where no broadband access is available. If the problem is that there are issues with the broadband currently at the school, an engineer from the provider needs to come out and fix it.
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No government department provides broadband.

This is exclusively done by private companies.

The current issues with broadband around the country including schools cannot be magically fixed by sending an engineer.

That's why there is plan. The NBP similarly can't magically give schools in once off locations fast broadband, they are building a network, that's why it is scheduled for 7 years and can't be done before the end of August.

mcsean2163 wrote: »

This guy...

I think everyone understood what the op was saying. As someone with a long history in telecommunications both in infrastructure and device development I would say yes, you get broadband when you are connected to a provider and schools could be prioritized. If necessary, they could get satellite broadband setup to tithe them over.

Solutions can be found. Let's have a can do attitude please.

They tried satellite broadband for years at best it's mid band in reality it doesn't work, as someone with a long history in telecommunications you should know that.

BonsaiKitten · 20-07-2020 2:38pm

mcsean2163 wrote: »

There is one poster in particular here who is very active and has a strong cannot do attitude.

Personally, I would like the teachers to know that there are many parents willing to support them and would appreciate guidance.

I would love to see the following:

1. A plan

If we saw the plan maybe parents could feature in it, for instance if teachers are not able to mix with children, perhaps parents could get vetted and take the kids to the playground for a hour once a day.

So far the school has not contacted parents at all

There's so many things that could be done now.

I think every teacher in the country wants the same as you - a plan. But without Departmental guidance the school can't give you that plan. We need to keep the pressure on the State for this.

As an aside I know some schools have already published a "full reopening" plan for September - some seem to be saying attending half the week, some saying all back - and I think that's incredibly irresponsible and pressuring other schools to do the same. No school should be publishing plans until we've the finalised guidance. If you've heard nothing from your school bar maybe a bit of reassurance, they're doing the right thing.

mirrorwall14 · 20-07-2020 2:46pm

antgal23 wrote: »

Teacher in ASD class in special school

Was approached a month ago to join Covid team. I'm not a middle manager but I agreed

Main aim was to interpret Covid guidance from Govt and make the school Covid compliant for September

I reckon between the ten of us we put in 150 hours , Covid guidance was so open that we spent the first 50 hours deciphering what it actually meant, the other 100 hours writing up policy and protocol

We give it 100% and we want to open in September

What will prevent us from opening is the eejits having house parties and fecking off to the Continent for two weeks

Hang on, what guidance were you given? What document were you working off?

mcsean2163 · 20-07-2020 2:47pm

Boggles wrote: »

No government department provides broadband.

This is exclusively done by private companies.

The current issues with broadband around the country including schools cannot be magically fixed by sending an engineer.

That's why there is plan. The NBP similarly can't magically give schools in once off locations fast broadband, they are building a network, that's why it is scheduled for 7 years and can't be done before the end of August.

They tried satellite broadband for years at best it's mid band in reality it doesn't work, as someone with a long history in telecommunications you should know that.

As someone with a long history of competence and project delivery, I am not always up to speed with the latest breakthroughs in stupidity.

1. Satellite broadband is more expensive but available all over Ireland. https://ruralwifi.ie/broadband/ruralwifi-satelite/

2. Put together a list of schools where broadband is insufficient and then calculate the speed required for online learning. For example, 5mbs should be more than sufficient for zoom. Assign slots to teachers to use the broadband.

3. If the schools broadband cannot support video allow teachers to use voice only to reduce the upload requirement.

4. Ask some teachers to use their home broadband like the rest of the country.

There are countless solutions. I have listed 4, maybe try turning your negative energy into positive energy to find solutions.

Lillyfae · 20-07-2020 2:47pm

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

As an aside I know some schools have already published a "full reopening" plan for September - some seem to be saying attending half the week, some saying all back - and I think that's incredibly irresponsible and pressuring other schools to do the same. No school should be publishing plans until we've the finalised guidance. If you've heard nothing from your school bar maybe a bit of reassurance, they're doing the right thing.

I don't see what's irresponsible about putting some inevitable work in and informing people that they're ready. With all due respect, schools should absolutely be under pressure. It's less work for when the finalised guidance becomes available, and will identify barriers to reopening which need to be put back on the DoE to remove.

There are only 5 weeks left now, when do you want them to prepare? Do they need to wait, for example, until people have already gone on holidays to countries that they will need to self isolate when they get back from them for another two weeks?

Boggles · 20-07-2020 2:52pm

mcsean2163 wrote: »

As someone with a long history of competence and project delivery, I am not always up to speed with the latest breakthroughs in stupidity with which you seem well acquainted.

Nice.

mcsean2163 wrote: »

1. Satellite broadband is more expensive but available all over Ireland. https://ruralwifi.ie/broadband/ruralwifi-satelite/

Yeah, I never said it wasn't, go back and read what I actually said.

I'm starting to doubt this competence level TBH.

mcsean2163 wrote: »

4. Ask some teachers to use their home broadband like the rest of the country.

Do they bring half the class they are supposed teaching at the same time home as well?

BonsaiKitten · 20-07-2020 2:58pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

I don't see what's irresponsible about putting some inevitable work in and informing people that they're ready. With all due respect, schools should absolutely be under pressure. It's less work for when the finalised guidance becomes available, and will identify barriers to reopening which need to be put back on the DoE to remove.

There are only 5 weeks left now, when do you want them to prepare? Do they need to wait, for example, until people have already gone on holidays to countries that they will need to self isolate when they get back from them for another two weeks?

There’s a difference between putting in some planning work and informing the parents about your plans. We don’t know exactly what the final guidelines will be. No school should be publishing their ‘final’ plans before the final guidance gets released. It’s very possible that these schools will have to row back on their plans which just causes more disruption.

And no, the schools should not be under pressure to publish guidance - that’s the job of the department. Once the department has done that, schools should publish their plans as soon as they are able. As I said, in the meantime sending out a reassuring email is fine - in fact I think most schools should do that.

Lillyfae · 20-07-2020 3:07pm

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

There’s a difference between putting in some planning work and informing the parents about your plans. We don’t know exactly what the final guidelines will be. No school should be publishing their ‘final’ plans before the final guidance gets released. It’s very possible that these schools will have to row back on their plans which just causes more disruption.

And no, the schools should not be under pressure to publish guidance - that’s the job of the department. Once the department has done that, schools should publish their plans as soon as they are able. As I said, in the meantime sending out a reassuring email is fine - in fact I think most schools should do that.

I don't follow. If the schools are happy with their plan let them publish away. Schools know their parents best, and it's possible that this is the reassurance that they need. I really don't see how their pro-activeness can be seen as a bad thing here.

There is guidance available, and chances are it won't change that much if at all. Like I said, schools need to be under pressure because they need to interpret within the context of their own settings. Nobody said pandemic proofing was going to be relaxing!!

mcsean2163 · 20-07-2020 3:08pm

Boggles wrote: »

Nice.

Yeah, I never said it wasn't, go back and read what I actually said.

I'm starting to doubt this competence level TBH.

Do they bring half the class they are supposed teaching at the same time home as well?

I'm beginning to believe if I said teachers were required to tie their shoe laces, you would have ten reasons why they couldn't.

In answer to your question, if the class were on-site broadband wouldn't be required while the teacher was teaching on-site.

Boggles · 20-07-2020 3:10pm

mcsean2163 wrote: »

In answer to your question, if the class were on-site broadband wouldn't be required while the teacher was teaching on-site.

Again, like I said and this post again proves it, some people have absolutely no idea what blended learning means.

Lillyfae · 20-07-2020 3:18pm

Boggles wrote: »

Again, like I said and this post again proves it, some people have absolutely no idea what blended learning means.

If your responses are anything to go by, that is certainly the truth.

BonsaiKitten · 20-07-2020 3:18pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

I don't follow. If the schools are happy with their plan let them publish away. Schools know their parents best, and it's possible that this is the reassurance that they need. I really don't see how their pro-activeness can be seen as a bad thing here.

There is guidance available, and chances are it won't change that much if at all. Like I said, schools need to be under pressure because they need to interpret within the context of their own settings. Nobody said pandemic proofing was going to be relaxing!!

Whatever plans the school publish have to be in line with the Department rules - you don't see the problem here? If the Department say that every child must be in school 5 days a week and the school have done a solo run declaring they'll have them in half the week, that's a problem.

As I said, schools should be assessing what may be possible for them based on the draft guidelines. That's common sense, I know that my principal has done some work on it already. They should not be publishing any of this to parents before the Department issue their full guidance. Most likely the advice won't change all that much but we can't guarantee that, so we should wait until we know for sure. Not sure where you got the notion that it was anything to do with being relaxed - this is definitely the most unrelaxed summer we've had.

Lillyfae · 20-07-2020 3:26pm

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Whatever plans the school publish have to be in line with the Department rules - you don't see the problem here? If the Department say that every child must be in school 5 days a week and the school have done a solo run declaring they'll have them in half the week, that's a problem.

The DoE won't say that, because that puts the liability on them to make it happen. The school can only work off the guidelines they have, and there are only 5 weeks left to go.

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

As I said, schools should be assessing what may be possible for them based on the draft guidelines. That's common sense, I know that my principal has done some work on it already. They should not be publishing any of this to parents before the Department issue their full guidance. Most likely the advice won't change all that much but we can't guarantee that, so we should wait until we know for sure.

If the school is happy to publish, let them publish. I'm sure the parents and children appreciate knowing what their next school term might look like. Your principal has done "some work" but do you know what? Are other staff members involved? Do you feel like the principal should at least let you know what they're doing?

mcsean2163 · 20-07-2020 3:34pm

Boggles wrote: »

Again, like I said and this post again proves it, some people have absolutely no idea what blended learning means.

I'm using the Wikipedia definition which is vague as blended encompasses a lot of learning modes.

[url]hTtps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blended_learning#:~:text=Blended learning is an approach,place, path, or pace[/url].

Perhaps you could explain your version as it appears only you understand what you are talking about, a sad outcome I expect for any teacher.

I could imagine your classroom, 'what you don't understand what I just said?'. 'If you don't understand what I mean by an undefined subjective term, then I am most certainly not going to explain it to you! Now, gangal goolie boodi, banjo 5. You should recall the definition of these words I invented last month and I expect the homework complete and on my table and self corrected in zeeble* minutes'

*Zeeble is 5 plus a beeble.

BonsaiKitten · 20-07-2020 3:37pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

The DoE won't say that, because that puts the liability on them to make it happen. The school can only work off the guidelines they have, and there are only 5 weeks left to go.

If the school is happy to publish, let them publish. I'm sure the parents and children appreciate knowing what their next school term might look like. Your principal has done "some work" but do you know what? Are other staff members involved? Do you feel like the principal should at least let you know what they're doing?

Yep, I know what the plan is. We got an email with key points based on the principals reading of the draft guidance and an anonymous survey to share our thoughts (I guess the principal thought people might speak more freely anonymously). Once the final plans are released, there is a small group set up to work on the final document (which I'm on) and then everyone will have a Zoom staff meeting to go through it together. We can iron out any problems then. The parents have seen none of this and nor will they until the final regulations are published.

We are working off the plans that we have now but until the Department rubber stamp their own plans, we won't be rubber stamping any plans of our own. I think that's a much more responsible take on it than releasing the plans now and potentially having to row back on them in future.

Boggles · 20-07-2020 3:41pm

mcsean2163 wrote: »

I'm using the Wikipedia definition which is vague as blended encompasses a lot of learning modes.

[url]hTtps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blended_learning#:~:text=Blended learning is an approach,place, path, or pace[/url].

Perhaps you could explain your version as it appears only you understand what you are talking about, a sad outcome I expect for any teacher.

I could imagine your classroom, 'what you don't understand what I just said?'. 'If you don't understand what I mean by an undefined subjective term, then I am most certainly not going to explain it to you! Now, gangal goolie boodi, banjo 5. You should recall the definition of these words I invented last month and I expect the homework complete and on my table and self corrected in zeeble* minutes'

*Zeeble is 5 plus a beeble.

I don't have a classroom.

Very little of that makes sense, have you an actual question?

Are you okay?

Lillyfae · 20-07-2020 3:42pm

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Yep, I know what the plan is. We got an email with key points based on the principals reading of the draft guidance and an anonymous survey to share our thoughts (I guess the principal thought people might speak more freely anonymously). Once the final plans are released, there is a small group set up to work on the final document (which I'm on) and then everyone will have a Zoom staff meeting to go through it together. We can iron out any problems then. The parents have seen none of this and nor will they until the final regulations are published.

We are working off the plans that we have now but until the Department rubber stamp their own plans, we won't be rubber stamping any plans of our own. I think that's a much more responsible take on it than releasing the plans now and potentially having to row back on them in future.

That's also great. I just think that each school needs to do what they need to do to move forwards. The DoE needs to step up here, I just don't think knocking an individual school down over their approach is constructive either.

mcsean2163 · 20-07-2020 3:47pm

Boggles wrote: »

I don't have a classroom.

Very little of that makes sense, have you an actual question?

Are you okay?

My question: how do you define blended learning?

wirelessdude01 · 20-07-2020 3:53pm

mcsean2163 wrote: »

There is one poster in particular here who is very active and has a strong cannot do attitude.

Personally, I would like the teachers to know that there are many parents willing to support them and would appreciate guidance.

I would love to see the following:

1. A plan

If we saw the plan maybe parents could feature in it, for instance if teachers are not able to mix with children, perhaps parents could get vetted and take the kids to the playground for a hour once a day.

So far the school has not contacted parents at all

There's so many things that could be done now.

So far my school hasn't contacted me since the summer holidays began so not quite sure what you want them to be contacting you for and with what information? We don't know anything. There isn't a secret file that is being kept from parents or indeed anyone. Trust me teachers require the plan even more than parents otherwise the start of the school year is going to be an absolute mess.

wirelessdude01 · 20-07-2020 3:56pm

mcsean2163 wrote: »

I know in the UK parents go in and assist the teachers doing tasks for them on a voluntary basis (before covid19). It seems to work really well and no reason it can't work here. If the law needs to change on insurance it should change.

All vetted and above board. I worked in the UK previously and each class had a list of parents who had volunteered and the time slots they had volunteered for. There is a history of that over there.

In comparison I train a team in my school. Last September I asked the parents of those children if some of them wouldn't mind getting vetted so that they could provide lifts to matches, not one volunteered.

Lillyfae · 20-07-2020 3:58pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So far my school hasn't contacted me since the summer holidays began so not quite sure what you want them to be contacting you for and with what information? We don't know anything. There isn't a secret file that is being kept from parents or indeed anyone. Trust me teachers require the plan even more than parents otherwise the start of the school year is going to be an absolute mess.

Just in the last hour 2 teachers here have said that there's planning happening in their schools and they've been kept informed. If your principal isn't doing the same that's on them and the BoM. Individual schools will have to implement some measures themselves, based on guidelines/interim guidelines, led by management of course.

Boggles · 20-07-2020 4:01pm

mcsean2163 wrote: »

My question: how do you define blended learning?

In terms of this global pandemic and what other schools are doing in the world?

The class room will be run as normal but also "broadcast online", the kids who can't come in will be taught virtually and the ones that can will attend for 2-3 days at a time.

The teachers will be able to interact with the kids virtually as if they were sitting in the classroom.

It's the model New York are following.

It won't happen here though for obvious reasons.

Lillyfae · 20-07-2020 4:03pm

Boggles wrote: »

In terms of this global pandemic and what other schools are doing in the world?

The class room will be run as normal but also "broadcast online", the kids who can't come in will be taught virtually and the ones that can will attend for 2-3 days at a time.

The teachers will be able to interact with the kids virtually as if they were sitting in the classroom.

It's the model New York are following.

It won't happen here though for obvious reasons.

Great, so we have a clear rule now on what your definition of what blended learning is and we can't stray from that in any way shape or form. Better phone up Michael D and tell him to give the Gardaí extra powers to make sure that no child is learning anything outside of your framework.

Boggles · 20-07-2020 4:05pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

Great, so we have a clear rule now on what your definition of what blended learning is and we can't stray from that in any way shape or form. Better phone up Michael D and tell him to give the Gardaí extra powers to make sure that no child is learning anything outside of your framework.

WTF?

Are you okay?

mcsean2163 · 20-07-2020 4:07pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So far my school hasn't contacted me since the summer holidays began so not quite sure what you want them to be contacting you for and with what information? We don't know anything. There isn't a secret file that is being kept from parents or indeed anyone. Trust me teachers require the plan even more than parents otherwise the start of the school year is going to be an absolute mess.

I want my children to have an education AND I want to go back to work. If it's the same as lockdown, I won't be able to go back to work.

Not only that but I believe it would be an idea to try and get a group of parents to work together to ensure that children get reasonable social interaction and possibly organise homework clubs if the schools will not be providing schooling again.

I think there is a bit of underestimation here by some of how important school is in our society and to our children.

Peace out.

wirelessdude01 · 20-07-2020 4:10pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

Just in the last hour 2 teachers here have said that there's planning happening in their schools and they've been kept informed. If your principal isn't doing the same that's on them and the BoM. Individual schools will have to implement some measures themselves, based on guidelines/interim guidelines, led by management of course.

And those people have said they are either on the Covid response team or have been asked for feedback. We have our feedback on certain things many times before we broke up for the summer. I wouldn't expect to hear anymore until the govt/dept release their guidelines and expectations and structure they want for the various scenarios. I agree with those posters who say that schools shouldn't be publishing anything just yet. They are literally guessing stuff and more than likely will have to change quite a lot of it which then looks unprofessional.
In my previous life before I retained I worked on project management and consulting and no way would a client be presented with something unless we were happy we complied with the relevant regulations. We don't have those yet.

wirelessdude01 · 20-07-2020 4:14pm

mcsean2163 wrote: »

I want my children to have an education AND I want to go back to work. If it's the same as lockdown, I won't be able to go back to work.

Not only that but I believe it would be an idea to try and get a group of parents to work together to ensure that children get reasonable social interaction and possibly organise homework clubs if the schools will not be providing schooling again.

I think there is a bit of underestimation here by some of how important school is in our society and to our children.

Peace out.

The point being that we don't know what it will be like until the department release their guidelines.

Social interaction as already said is up to you to provide. Sounds like you have some strange neighbours if they are looking for your children to have taken Covid tests.

Lillyfae · 20-07-2020 4:14pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

In my previous life before I retained I worked on project management and consulting and no way would a client be presented with something unless we were happy we complied with the relevant regulations. We don't have those yet.

It's a dynamic situation, and the school has responded dynamically. This isn't project management, and you don't know whether or not the school has the resources to make a concrete plan. I really wouldn't be too worried about looking unprofessional 5 weeks before the children are due to go back to school.

Treppen · 20-07-2020 4:17pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

Just in the last hour 2 teachers here have said that there's planning happening in their schools and they've been kept informed. If your principal isn't doing the same that's on them and the BoM. Individual schools will have to implement some measures themselves, based on guidelines/interim guidelines, led by management of course.

I suspect management will take their lead from JMB and government.

Sammy2012 · 20-07-2020 5:56pm

Lillyfae wrote: »

Just in the last hour 2 teachers here have said that there's planning happening in their schools and they've been kept informed. If your principal isn't doing the same that's on them and the BoM. Individual schools will have to implement some measures themselves, based on guidelines/interim guidelines, led by management of course.

I havent spoken to my principal since the day we got our holidays either. They left word with the deputy that it was up to them and the staff to have the school ready for reopening at the end of August. They were having nothing to do with it. I am appalled by the attitude and it's not good enough but what can the staff do only get on with planning as they want to have a safe environment for themselves and the children in their care.

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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