Schooled by an E-bike

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 12:21pm

1bryan wrote: »

ah grand, so we'll let cars and motorbikes into the cycle lanes so

not sure what you are getting at exactly

are you saying someone at 30kph on a bike is some sort of speed demon or something? should we have a man with a flag walk in front of them?

magicbastarder · 24-05-2019 12:23pm

the reason bikes have been excluded from so much of the regulations surrounding other modes of transport is precisely because they have - until a few years ago - been unpowered. now people have e-bikes, and some people on e-bikes want to go faster. you can. get a licence, helmet, insurance, etc.
i worry that this argument for faster e-bikes will be used as a trojan horse by some lawmakers to force helmets on all cyclists, on the pretext that it's too much cognitive load on the authorities to have to distinguish between the various different modes available on e-bikes.

the biggest problems facing e-bike users on the roads are the same problems facing 'normal' cyclists.

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 12:28pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

the reason bikes have been excluded from so much of the regulations surrounding other modes of transport is precisely because they have - until a few years ago - been unpowered. now people have e-bikes, and some people on e-bikes want to go faster. you can. get a licence, helmet, insurance, etc.
i worry that this argument for faster e-bikes will be used as a trojan horse by some lawmakers to force helmets on all cyclists, on the pretext that it's too much cognitive load on the authorities to have to distinguish between the various different modes available on e-bikes.

the biggest problems facing e-bike users on the roads are the same problems facing 'normal' cyclists.

you can already go faster than 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 on a normal bike

so I wouldn't really be worrying yourself like that

they don't enforce the laws they already have

Alkers · 24-05-2019 12:38pm

1bryan wrote:

the average speed of a dublin commute by bike is around 19km/h. So a limit of 30km/h is a ridiculous suggestion

Explain please? You'd need to be hitting 30km/h at points to make up for when you're stopped at lights etc to have an average of 19?

5uspect · 24-05-2019 12:44pm

I’m decided I’m going to get an e-bike in a few months. Probably a Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0. Over the last year my commute has increased from 8 to 19 and now to 24 km each way.

The shorter commute was easy and I would cycle every day. I could manage the 19 km commute three or four days a week but the 24 km is too much for me to sustain at that frequency and not be utterly exhausted for work and family.

I mainly cycle because it’s faster than other modes of transport (it’s not a hobby) and I would average 20 km/h on my commute. With the e-bike I would be a lot more confident cycling along the N4 as I could maintain a steady 25 km/h and then cycle as normal through the city. I could even take a more scenic route through Strawberry Beds and not worry about the nasty hill at the Angler’s Rest.

From my test spins on e-bikes the assist is really just a multiplier of your input power up to 25 km/h. Thereafter all the power drops away and you feel all the weight of a heavy push bike. If someone is fitter than me and has a lighter bike than my trusty old hybrid then they have a power advantage. The e-bike just levels that. It doesn’t propel you by itself you have to put some effort in to get 2 or 3X power out.

I’ve I’ve no interest in speed hacking but I’ve seen a couple of idiots with clearly modified bikes. It’s pretty easy to spot so hopefully can be clamped down on for the sake of the rest of us.

magicbastarder · 24-05-2019 1:06pm

Simona1986 wrote: »

Explain please? You'd need to be hitting 30km/h at points to make up for when you're stopped at lights etc to have an average of 19?

look at it this way - if your cycle/commute is 10km, the theoretical maximum time saved between a maximum speed of 30km/h vs. 25kh/h is four minutes. in reality, it's going to be significantly less than that.

(FWIW, it's a 20 minute cycle at 30km/h, without stopping; and 24 minutes at 25km/h - and i suspect that low end acceleration is every bit as important as top end speed)

magicbastarder · 24-05-2019 1:08pm

1bryan wrote: »

the average speed of a dublin commute by bike is around 19km/h. So a limit of 30km/h is a ridiculous suggestion

Data from the 2006 Census reveals that, for journeys within the Dublin Canal Ring, cyclists reached an average speed of 12 km/h compared to just 15km/h for cars.

https://irishcycle.com/myths/myths-speed/

1bryan · 24-05-2019 1:22pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

https://irishcycle.com/myths/myths-speed/

apologies, I stand corrected. By my mistake strengthens my argument.

1bryan · 24-05-2019 1:23pm

Simona1986 wrote: »

Explain please? You'd need to be hitting 30km/h at points to make up for when you're stopped at lights etc to have an average of 19?

apologies, the average speed of a cycle commute in Dublin is 12km/h. I was mistaken when I said 19km/h

magicbastarder · 24-05-2019 1:32pm

that's journeys within the canals, not in dublin as a whole, it should be pointed out.

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 1:39pm

1bryan wrote: »

apologies, I stand corrected. By my mistake strengthens my argument.

that the limit on the assist should be 12kph?

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 1:42pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

that's journeys within the canals, not in dublin as a whole, it should be pointed out.

but what has this go to do against the 25kph limit being good and the 30kph limit being bad?

magicbastarder · 24-05-2019 1:48pm

i was responding to a post about the average speed of bikes in dublin in general.

1bryan · 24-05-2019 2:01pm

the.red.baron wrote: »

that the limit on the assist should be 12kph?

please tell me where I said it should be 12km/h

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 2:01pm

i'd love to know how they come up with this number other than compiling guesses

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 2:03pm

1bryan wrote: »

please tell me where I said it should be 12km/h

you were using it as reasoning for the limit on the assist being 25, as you thought it was 19, aren't you going to reduce this limit :pac:

1bryan · 24-05-2019 2:06pm

the.red.baron wrote: »

you were using it as reasoning for the limit on the assist being 25, as you thought it was 19, aren't you going to reduce this limit :pac:

not sure what you are getting at exactly

I think a 25km/h assist cutoff point seems reasonable. Anything higher does not seem reasonable. I cited the average speed of a Dublin cycle commute to highlight why.

any more questions?

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 2:09pm

1bryan wrote: »

not sure what you are getting at exactly

I think a 25km/h assist cutoff point seems reasonable. Anything higher does not seem reasonable. I cited the average speed of a Dublin cycle commute to highlight why.

any more questions?

but you haven't made any reason as to why

cars can get up to 30 and 50 and only average 18 (apparently)

so should they be limited to 25?

1bryan · 24-05-2019 2:10pm

the.red.baron wrote: »

but you haven't made any reason as to why

cars can get up to 30 and 50 and only average 18 (apparently)

so should they be limited to 25?

ok, last from me on this because you're borderline trolling now.

Cars don't share the cycle lanes with bikes, the average commute on which, in Dublin, is 12km/h.

Have a great weekend.

the.red.baron · 24-05-2019 2:15pm

zero trolling here have a good one

triggermortis · 24-05-2019 2:21pm

E bikes are a lot more popular in Europe and I used to regularly be passed by them on a few climbs when I lived in Zurich.

grogi · 24-05-2019 5:21pm

the.red.baron wrote: »

no it's not

you dont' have to go 30kph if you choose to not

You can go as fast as you want - provided you have license to do it and you won't harm anybody else. The 25 km/h assistance limit is there only for that reason - that a layman cyclist on an pedelec without any training would not harm someone else.

You don't have any qualification - limit to 25 km/h of assistance.
You have credentials, insurance sorted out etc - go as fast as you want.

Tenzor07 · 24-05-2019 6:50pm

grogi wrote: »

you have license to do it
training
qualification -
insurance

Maybe Road Tax also?

magicbastarder · 24-05-2019 7:45pm

the.red.baron wrote: »

easy enough to keep up 30kph on the flat really

then why argue that you need assistance to do so?
i would have thought that the argument would be 'it's hard to pedal at 30km/h, therefore the bike should provide assistance'?

magicbastarder · 24-05-2019 7:47pm

triggermortis wrote: »

E bikes are a lot more popular in Europe and I used to regularly be passed by them on a few climbs when I lived in Zurich.

just in case the swiss regulations were different from EU ones, i looked them up:

Rules for e-bikes/electric bikes

There are two types of electric bike: slow (assisted pedalling up to 25km/h) and fast (assisted pedalling up to 45km/h).

The minimum age for riding an electric bike is 14.
Cyclists aged 16 and above may ride a slow e-bike without any form of licence. They may also be ridden by young people aged 14 or 15 who hold a category M driving licence (for motorised bicycles).
A driving licence (at least category M) is required to ride a fast e-bike.
E-bikes must use cycle lanes.
Slow e-bikes (up to 25km/h) are allowed to use roads signposted “no motorised bicycles”. Fast e-bikes can only use these roads with their motor switched off.
Fast e-bikes still need a number plate and vignette. (Get these from your canton’s road traffic office if they are not supplied directly by the shop that sold you your bike).
A cycle helmet should be worn. It is compulsory to wear a helmet when riding a fast e-bike.

https://www.ch.ch/en/cycling-switzerland/
so the swiss seem to have created an extra category we don't have here - fast e-bikes. not too different from our regulations on motorbikes (licence, helmet and registration plate) but i don't think the 45km/h limit exists here to distinguish them from motorbikes.

grogi · 24-05-2019 8:39pm

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Maybe Road Tax also?

Yes, forgot about that.

T-Maxx · 24-05-2019 8:43pm

grogi wrote:

Yes, forgot about that.

Whooosh

Tombo2001 · 16-09-2019 11:00am

Was city cycling a lot in an overseas major city the past few days.

Absolutely heaps of e-bikes -

These things are motorbikes. They are whizzing about at 40k / 45k an hour.

They should not be in bike lanes at that speed. They are car paced traffic, and its no different to having a regular motorbike in a bike lane.

What is the deal here - nobody is saying a Tesla should have different driving rules to a Mondeo, even though its electric.

Whats different about e-bikes. They are motorbikes that are electric, they should not be equated to pedal bikes where city traffic is concerned.

In particular - absolutely no way should they be in segregated bike lanes. They go too fast.

magicbastarder · 16-09-2019 11:04am

legally, in ireland, the ones you saw are not allowed in cycle lanes. the regulations are there, but the enforcement may not be,.

Utter Consternation · 16-09-2019 11:09am

They can't go faster than 25kmh or be mechanically propelled.

https://www.rsa.ie/Documents/VS_Information_Notes/Two_Three_Wheeled_Vehicles/FAQs%20on%20E%20Bikes%20and%20Pedelecs%20and%20battery%20Scooters.pdf

Schooled by an E-bike

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