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Tax saver rip-off

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Comments

  • #62
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    efb wrote: »
    I don't have the corresponding prices for each year, which I would require to make a true evaluation.



    Ask the poster concerned - he has been discussing this for some time.

    efb wrote: »
    Do you not think there is a considerable benefit there for the full time commuter??? In your edgewardstown example???

    You can't get much better saving that that without serverly impacting company revenue

    But the point is that those customers have seen the cost of their tickets rise by a higher percentage than anyone who is paying as they travel.


    The companies have increased their revenue by charging monthly/annual ticket holders more in percentage terms each year, and reducing the discount that they got.


    I just think that is not right.


    I'm not going to get into an endless discussion about this. You have a different view, which frankly I suspect that very few people would agree with.


  • #63
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Ask the poster concerned - he has been discussing this for some time.




    But the point is that those customers have seen the cost of their tickets rise by a higher percentage than anyone who is paying as they travel.


    The companies have increased their revenue by charging monthly/annual ticket holders more in percentage terms each year, and reducing the discount that they got.


    I just think that is not right.


    I'm not going to get into an endless discussion about this. You have a different view, which frankly I suspect that very few people would agree with.

    How do you get a saving for everyone that you would be happy with? Would it be feasible???


  • #64
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    efb wrote: »
    How do you get a saving for everyone that you would be happy with? Would it be feasible???



    Well to give you another example:

    A Dublin Bus passenger buying an annual ticket pays €1,320.

    Someone using LEAP weekly cap will pay €1,320 assuming 48 weeks travel.


    A short hop rail only passenger buying an annual ticket pays €1,420.

    Someone using LEAP weekly cap will pay €1,704 assuming 48 weeks travel.


    A LUAS passenger buying an annual ticket pays €910.

    Someone using LEAP weekly cap will pay €1,128 assuming 48 weeks travel.


    However, someone buying an annual Dublin Bus/rail/LUAS ticket pays €2,080.

    Someone using LEAP weekly cap will pay €1,920 assuming 48 weeks travel.


    Now, explain those inconsistencies to me.

    Why should someone doing more travelling than others (and multi-mode) end up paying more than someone who is paying per trip. Surely the annual ticket prices should be offering a discount at a level rate rather than being the same or charging more?


    It makes no sense.


  • #65
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    lxflyer wrote: »
    Well to give you another example:


    A bus passenger buying an annual ticket pays €1,320.


    Someone using LEAP weekly cap will pay €1,320 assuming 48 weeks travel.


    A short hop rail only passenger buying an annual ticket pays €1,420.


    Someone using LEAP weekly cap will pay €1,704 assuming 48 weeks travel.


    A LUAS passenger buying an annual ticket pays €910.


    Someone using LEAP weekly cap will pay €1,128 assuming 48 weeks travel.


    However, someone buying an annual bus/rail/LUAS ticket pays €2,080.


    Someone using LEAP weekly cap will pay €1,920 assuming 48 weeks travel.


    Now, explain those inconsistencies to me.


    Why should someone doing more travelling than others (and multi-mode) end up paying more than someone who is paying per trip. Surely the annual ticket prices should be offering a discount at a level rate rather than being the same or charging more?


    It makes no sense.

    From to where?


  • #66
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    efb wrote: »
    From to where?



    In Dublin. Bear in mind that it is unlimited travel. I'm assuming that the ticket holder goes away for their four weeks holidays.


    I'm comparing the cost of an annual ticket for bus, rail, LUAS with their respective weekly cap, and that for using all three.


    Dublin Bus offers zero discount, compared with 48 weeks travel, while Irish Rail and LUAS offer different discounts, and the multi-mode ticket costs more.


    Do you think that makes sense?


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  • #67
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    Surely as they provide differing services within the capital???


  • #68
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    My three zone point leap PAYG was below the weekly cap- I had no issue


  • #69
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    efb wrote: »
    Surely as they provide differing services within the capital???



    They all have their own weekly cap - so why would that make any difference?


  • #70
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I'm not referring to the actual prices between bus only, rail only and LUAS only, I'm referring to the fact that Dublin Bus offers zero discount when you compare the cost of an annual ticket with 48 weeks capped travel, Irish Rail and LUAS both offer discounts (at different levels), and the multi-mode ticket costs more.

    What you pay is irrelevant - that's your particular journey.

    I'm comparing the cost of the product which offers unlimited travel compared with the cost of the appropriate cap.

    They're inconsistent with the multi-mode ticket actually costing more than using the cap.


  • #71
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    I'd use the leap card in that instance then!


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  • #72
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,542 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    I give up - at this stage frankly you're trolling:


  • #73
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    lxflyer wrote: »
    I give up - at this stage frankly you're trolling:

    Quite


  • #74
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,469 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    lxflyer wrote: »
    I'll put it another way - do you not think that someone who pays up front for a full year's travel, thereby giving the operating company the benefit of the use of that cash, should not be getting a discount over someone who pays on a weekly basis?

    what's the cost or benefit of that cash these days though, with interest rates effective at zero there's not a huge benefit of getting the cash upfront unless the majority of the annual tickets are bough at the start at the same time.


  • #75
    Jem72
    Registered Users Posts: 167 ✭✭Jem72


    If you go to the local Spar to buy a chocolate bar, you'll pay about 1.20 if you're in Dublin. If you pick the right offer, you can generally get a packet of 3 or 4 bars for around 2 euro. The principle being if you buy in bulk, you can get more.

    The same principle should apply to your train pass and it does to some extend for some journeys. Monthly and annual passes are sold at a lower multiple of the day return on Hueston services because Day return tickets on the Sligo line and others are sold at a discount due to the classification of the line. For some reason the line classification has no bearing on commuter pass prices.

    Monthly and annual passes are not just valuable to transport companies because they have the use of the money in advance. It is also helpful to them in service planning as they essentially have a customer base that has paid for a service in advance so they know that the service will bring in a certain amount of revenue before they sell a single walk-up ticket.

    Finally long-distance commuter services are a bit of a special case as relatively few people do 2 hour each way commutes five days a week so you really are comparing the price against 4 days a week.


  • #76
    cython
    Registered Users Posts: 4,757 ✭✭✭cython


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    what's the cost or benefit of that cash these days though, with interest rates effective at zero there's not a huge benefit of getting the cash upfront unless the majority of the annual tickets are bough at the start at the same time.

    Simple, cash flow. Realistically very few companies would put money like that into interest bearing accounts anyway, so the point of interest rates was never a factor beyond those who wanted to moan about companies getting interest on money instead of them. However getting the cost of a monthly/annual ticket up front is guaranteed operating revenue for the period of the ticket, rather than maybe getting money if someone elects to take the train. Annual tickets offer increased stability of revenue over monthly, hence a further discount. Basically a bird in the hand is worth two (or at least 1 and a bit, since we're not doubling fares :)) in the bush.

    Leap does not offer any one operator this benefit though, so there is no logical reason for an operator to offer better discounts on leap than so-called seasonal tickets, though leap is less hassle/incurs less overhead than cash, so it should be incentivised over that.


  • #77
    ballyargus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,001 ✭✭✭ballyargus


    as a taxsaver user your PRSI, PAYE and USC contributions go down. Yes you pay the full cost of the ticket but your net cost is a fraction of that cost.

    I had a bus and rail ticket last year with taxsaver. Month on month I was deducted 150 euros for it. The combined reduction in my contributions meant that the net cost was around 80 euros per month for unlimited bus and rail travel, including nitelinks as well as reductions on national rail travel of 20-30% per booking.

    It is a bargain and a no brainer for anyone who commutes.


  • #78
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,266 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    efb wrote: »
    Annual and monthly tax saver tickets are tax deductible so a saving of up to 49% on cost of ticket

    that's not really the point at all

    And is in fact only valid if you pay tax at that marginal rate. Otherwise it might only be worth 20% to you.


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