Bus Eireann Refusing to Refund Taxi Fare

malene · 10-11-2017 4:34pm #1

Last month 4 x 109a's never showed up. 50 people stood in the freezing cold. Forced to get a taxi home. BE refusing to cover it. Offering a BS complimentary ticket, which is't even a quarter the value of the taxi fare.

can I take this any higher?

p.s enclosed is the BS response.

I refer to your most recent correspondence.

As stated in our Standard Terms and Conditions “while every effort is made by Bus Éireann to ensure the full operation of all bus services advertised by them at all times. Bus Éireann will not be liable for any delay or interruption in any of its services where such delay or interruption is caused by reason of matters beyond its control, including, without limitation, interference by labour or industrial dispute, machine break-down or interruption in supply by others of power, materials or finished goods”. In view of the above circumstances, I am unable to accede to your request for a refund of your taxi.

In view of the circumstances and as a valued customer of Bus Éireann, I would like to offer you a complimentary ticket valid for travel on our Commuter Network. Should you decide to accept, an email will be sufficient to make the necessary ticketing arrangements.

Once again, on behalf of Bus Éireann, please accept my apologies for any inconvenience caused to you.

Now, I don't remember there being a strike and 4 buses can't break down on the same route!

cherryghost · 10-11-2017 4:49pm

4?! Contact the NTA

goingnowhere · 10-11-2017 4:59pm

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/public-transport-services/coach-and-bus-passenger-rights/

coylemj · 10-11-2017 5:01pm

malene wrote: »

can I take this any higher?

I don't believe so. If you could, people could get taxis during rail and bus strikes and claim the fare back from IR or DB. As they have illustrated to you, they have multiple legal excuses exit clauses in the event that someone claims that they have a legal obligation to provide the service so you really have no basis for a claim.

srsly78 · 10-11-2017 5:05pm

I was also left standing for 1 hour+ waiting for 109a several times over last few months. This is supposed to be a 24/7 airport bus service ffs!?

When it does actually arrive it's usually free - this is the funniest part. The private buses don't have a leapcard reader so they waive payment - no wonder the whole thing is losing money.

malene · 11-11-2017 1:32pm

coylemj wrote: »

I don't believe so. If you could, people could get taxis during rail and bus strikes and claim the fare back from IR or DB. As they have illustrated to you, they have multiple legal excuses exit clauses in the event that someone claims that they have a legal obligation to provide the service so you really have no basis for a claim.

Yeah but leaving 50 people outside in the freezing cold when there's no industrial action and either they couldn't get the drivers or they never showed up, is not great PR.

coylemj · 11-11-2017 1:35pm

malene wrote: »

Yeah but leaving 50 people outside in the freezing cold when there's no industrial action and either they couldn't get the drivers or they never showed up, is not great PR.

When you have no competition, you don't give a fook about PR.

magicbastarder · 11-11-2017 2:23pm

malene wrote: »

can I take this any higher?

i'm no lawyer, but unless you'd already paid specifically for a journey on one of those missing buses, i guess you've no legal standing to claim any more than what they've offered.

it'd be a little like saying to lidl that they had to compensate you because you were forced to shop somewhere more expensive, if they were unable to open their store.

GM228 · 11-11-2017 2:59pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm no lawyer, but unless you'd already paid specifically for a journey on one of those missing buses, i guess you've no legal standing to claim any more than what they've offered.

Even if you purchase for a specific service it makes no odds in relation to your rights, it basically boils down to contract law, you purchase your ticket thus entering a contract with BE, however the number one rule in contract law is that a contract is subject to the terms and conditions.

Anything above what is required under the T&Cs and any additional passenger rights is nothing more than a gesture of goodwill than legal recourse and neither the T&Cs or EU Regulation require BE to pay for a taxi.

andrewfaulk · 11-11-2017 3:06pm

GM228 wrote: »

Even if you purchase for a specific service it makes no odds in relation to your rights, it basically boils down to contract law, you purchase your ticket thus entering a contract with BE, however the number one rule in contract law is that a contract is subject to the terms and conditions.

Anything above what is required under the T&Cs and any additional passenger rights is nothing more than a gesture of goodwill than legal recourse and neither the T&Cs or EU Regulation require BE to pay for a taxi.

Also with transport you can take it as a given that the T&Cs of the transport provider does not cover any consequential loss from the failure to provide a service.. otherwise people would be trying to get money out of them left right and centre

malene · 11-11-2017 6:33pm

But guys, 4 buses never showed up. That's incredible. But I'll see what happens anyway and report back.

andrewfaulk · 11-11-2017 6:36pm

malene wrote: »

But guys, 4 buses never showed up. That's incredible. But I'll see what happens anyway and report back.

From what I've heard it seems to be not unusual on the 109 routes unfortunately.. best of luck but think you will have difficulty getting that taxi fare

jimmycrackcorm · 11-11-2017 7:03pm

malene wrote:

But guys, 4 buses never showed up. That's incredible. But I'll see what happens anyway and report back.

You should complain to the NBRU as this is happening since the resolution of the BE strike and the level of absenteeism has risen in the eastern region.

antoinolachtnai · 12-11-2017 10:09pm

A suggestion would be to start and promote a Facebook group for your bus route. If a significant number of customers were to work together on collecting data, doing FOIs and complaining I think it would make a difference.

A bus route serves and is supported by thousands of people. Politicians can’t afford to ignore coordinated activism.

It is shocking that this sort of industrial behavior goes on.

suicide_circus · 13-11-2017 10:48am

Why you thought they were ever going to pay your taxi fare I don't know. If they're such a shambles they can't even run their own bus services theyre hardly likely to reimburse your taxi.

cherryghost · 13-11-2017 1:57pm

Here's a good article relating to your problems, OP. BE blames absenteeism, drivers blame BE management, lack of buses and lack of training.

devnull · 13-11-2017 2:12pm

cherryghost wrote: »

Here's a good article relating to your problems, OP. BE blames absenteeism, drivers blame BE management, lack of buses and lack of training.

Christ, a lot of that stuff from the unions should be stuffed in the cabinet called myths and legends, I reckon, I honestly have no idea where to start but it just comes across as a complete rant that has been printed in full.

Had to laugh when the driver in the article claims that Broadstone is 100 buses short of where it needs to be, if it was as bad as that, then approx half of the services network wide which were ran from the depot would be disrupted rather than just a few routes.

ailbheg · 13-11-2017 2:28pm

devnull wrote: »

Had to laugh when the driver in the article claims that Broadstone is 100 buses short of where it needs to be, if it was as bad as that, then approx half of the services network wide which were ran from the depot would be disrupted rather than just a few routes.

While 100 seems like it may be exaggerated, the number of private hires being used is pretty high at times.

The type-training seems to be an issue at the moment too.

horseburger · 13-11-2017 2:33pm

coylemj wrote: »

When you have no competition, you don't give a fook about PR.

In the case of the 109A and 109 and NX routes, Bus Éireann does have competition, because Sillan Tours operate a daily Dublin service that covers Navan, Dunshaughlin and Dublin.

Sillan Tours does not operate any services to and from Dublin, throughout the night, which is the time that the 109A services, did not operate, in the case above, outlined by malene.

Has Sillan Tours, or any other company, shown an interest in operating throughout the night, to and from Dublin, in competition with the 109A throughout the night, or in a scenario where there was no 109A service throughout the night?

If the rule is, that any competing company cannot operate an identical service, to services currently in operation by any other company, then it seems to me, that there is nothing prohibiting Sillan Tours, or any other company, from operating a service throughout the night to and from Dublin, Navan and Dunshaughlin, considering that it would be a different route to the 109A, taking into account that the 109A also serves Kells, Ratoath, Ashbourne and the airport.

It seems to me, that another bus company could apply to the NTA, to run services in competition with the 109A, throughout the night - as long as the route is not identical to the 109A - but I'm not sure that any other company has shown an interest in doing that.

I don't think that it can be stated that Bus Éireann has no competition between Navan, Dunshaughlin and Dublin. It seems to me that there is nothing prohibiting any other company from operating throughout the night, to and from places like Navan and Dublin, as long as it is a service that is not identical to services operated by Bus Éireann or other companies.

An example is, where recently, Dublin Coach started operating a daily service, to and from Dublin and Belfast, which doesn't serve Dublin Airport. Before this service commenced, there were already two services operating between Dublin and Belfast which are not identical. These are; the Aircoach service between Dublin, Dublin Airport and Belfast, and the Bus Éireann Translink Ulster Bus service between Dublin, Dublin Airport and Belfast, which also serves Newry, Banbridge and Sprucefield.

Taking that as an example, I don't see what prohibits any other company from operating a service throughout the night, to and from Navan, Dunshaughlin and Dublin, if they showed an interest in it. Such a service would not be identical to the 109A, considering the 109A also serves Dublin Airport Ashbourne, Ratoath and Kells. (DCU is not served on the 109A services throughout the night).

devnull · 13-11-2017 2:38pm

I reckon there is no maybe about it, 100 has to be exaggerated because it would mean that Broadstone has little more than half the road passenger fleet that it would need to run a full service across the many dozens of routes it runs and yes there has been an increase of hire ins, but nowhere near 50 a day let alone 100 and the vehicle requirement for these routes being a further 78 vehicles is also laughable and that's before we even look at the claim that a third of the Broadstone fleet is being parked up every day as unsuitable for service.

I just don't think you can take the rant from the union member seriously, bearing in mind they don't know what the NTA's name is and they also claim that the NX is an Expressway service, the spin they're trying to use with the absence figures and the quite frankly absurd claims that are being put forward. I'm not saying the whole thing is down to just driver absence, but the figures in that article look extremely wild and hyperbolic and justifying that absence levels are high because that is how the public sector is, for me as a taxpayer, doesn't wash well at all.

ailbheg · 13-11-2017 3:09pm

devnull wrote: »

I reckon there is no maybe about it, 100 has to be exaggerated because it would mean that Broadstone has little more than half the road passenger fleet that it would need to run a full service across the many dozens of routes it runs and yes there has been an increase of hire ins, but nowhere near 50 a day let alone 100 and the vehicle requirement for these routes being a further 78 vehicles is also laughable and that's before we even look at the claim that a third of the Broadstone fleet is being parked up every day as unsuitable for service.

I just don't think you can take the rant from the union member seriously, bearing in mind they don't know what the NTA's name is and they also claim that the NX is an Expressway service, the spin they're trying to use with the absence figures and the quite frankly absurd claims that are being put forward. I'm not saying the whole thing is down to just driver absence, but the figures in that article look extremely wild and hyperbolic and justifying that absence levels are high because that is how the public sector is, for me as a taxpayer, doesn't wash well at all.

Is the explanation of the NTA abbreviation just added by the Journal though? (not that that reduces the claims made)

Going back to the 100 short, I'm curious as to how it's defined. If a round trip is covered by a private operator, is that "2 buses"? If it is, 100 buses adds up quickly.

I'm in total agreement with you that justifying that absence levels are high because it's the public sector doesn't wash well, but also trying to see where they're coming from.

devnull · 13-11-2017 3:25pm

ailbheg wrote: »

IGoing back to the 100 short, I'm curious as to how it's defined. If a round trip is covered by a private operator, is that "2 buses"? If it is, 100 buses adds up quickly.

If they are saying they have 100 timetabled departures that they cannot run in-house, then that is more believable, but the idea that they need 100 more vehicles in the fleet to run their services which the article seems to suggest is ridiculous.

malene · 13-11-2017 4:12pm

If you are on the roster to work and you don't show up, are you not fired?

jimmycrackcorm · 13-11-2017 6:52pm

cherryghost wrote:

a good article relating to your problems, OP. BE blames absenteeism, drivers blame BE management, lack of buses and lack of training.

Expect to see on Crimewatch an appeal for information about the kidnapped drivers and stolen buses that used to be on the route prior to industrial action.

Bus Eireann Refusing to Refund Taxi Fare

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