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Irelands next city

24

Comments

  • #32
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭touts


    We don't need another city. Most of the current ones we have are towns with notions. Real cities around the world have populations greater than the whole population of this island. Looking for your local town or village to be granted city status is akin to a lad in a 3 bed semi sticking a blow up pool from lidl in his back garden and then boasting in work that how he owns a house with a swimming pool. Everyone knows the truth and is laughing at him.


  • #33
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    touts wrote: »
    We don't need another city. Most of the current ones we have are towns with notions. Real cities around the world have populations greater than the whole population of this island. Looking for your local town or village to be granted city status is akin to a lad in a 3 bed semi sticking a blow up pool from lidl in his back garden and then boasting in work that how he owns a house with a swimming pool. Everyone knows the truth and is laughing at him.


    In Japan, areas of 30'000 population or over can be accorded city status, in some states in the US it can be as low as 2'000 people.

    These are legally defined 'proper' cities. But what the hell would Americans and Japanese know about cities anyway?


  • #34
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users Posts: 4,421 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    touts wrote: »
    We don't need another city. Most of the current ones we have are towns with notions. Real cities around the world have populations greater than the whole population of this island. Looking for your local town or village to be granted city status is akin to a lad in a 3 bed semi sticking a blow up pool from lidl in his back garden and then boasting in work that how he owns a house with a swimming pool. Everyone knows the truth and is laughing at him.

    Interesting you picked a male protagonist here.

    I'd go with a city being.any place that consistently generates more that 50bn in economic activity annually.

    Any other criterias are nice but ultimately toothless.


  • #35
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,699 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Castlebar


  • #36
    Datuk Vaderthir
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7 ✭Datuk Vaderthir


    There's several benchmarks you can use.

    1. The old one was having a Cathedral with a Bishop in it. Oddly enough by that definition, tiny little Ferns, population barely 1,500, would be defined as a city. So too Saint David's (population 3,000) in Wales.

    2. Economic activity. Only one city fits your metric in Ireland - North and South - Dublin.

    But beyond that, lets have a look. Different countries have different population levels, so it varies drastically. What the Chinese and Indians call a city is something VAST, like Guangzhou, Shenzhen (Which are now so densely packed in that corridor of 140km that they may as well be just one VAST crazy conurbation. I mean thats something like 30 Million people, proving that a dialect (Cantonese) is a language without an Army and a Navy.

    Dublin would barely make city status by Chinese standards in the Eastern Industrial Provinces (States), but out in Xinjiang, Tibet, Heilongjiang where population levels are much more sparse, it a bloody big city.

    In America Dublin would be a city, but again thats 'State dependent'. On the East Coast and in California, its not large. In the Mid West - yes.
    ToddyDoody wrote: »
    Interesting you picked a male protagonist here.

    I'd go with a city being.any place that consistently generates more that 50bn in economic activity annually.

    Any other criterias are nice but ultimately toothless.


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  • #37
    RoyalCelt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,518 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    policarp wrote: »
    Is that not the marble city

    The city where drunken hens go to get a pair of hairy marbles alright.

    It makes sense to push Athlone, Drogheda and Sligo. Drogheda and Dundalk should be hubs where they look to get investment instead of Dublin which has enough as it is.

    Athlone as a central hub makes perfect sense and Sligo too. Sadly the government will probably focus on Dublin and not give a **** about the rest.


  • #38
    derossi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 231 ✭✭derossi


    Datuk Vaderthir wrote: »
    There's several benchmarks you can use.

    1. The old one was having a Cathedral with a Bishop in it. Oddly enough by that definition, tiny little Ferns, population barely 1,500, would be defined as a city. So too Saint David's (population 3,000) in Wales.

    2. Economic activity. Only one city fits your metric in Ireland - North and South - Dublin.

    But beyond that, lets have a look. Different countries have different population levels, so it varies drastically. What the Chinese and Indians call a city is something VAST, like Guangzhou, Shenzhen (Which are now so densely packed in that corridor of 140km that they may as well be just one VAST crazy conurbation. I mean thats something like 30 Million people, proving that a dialect (Cantonese) is a language without an Army and a Navy.

    Dublin would barely make city status by Chinese standards in the Eastern Industrial Provinces (States), but out in Xinjiang, Tibet, Heilongjiang where population levels are much more sparse, it a bloody big city.

    In America Dublin would be a city, but again that's 'State dependent'. On the East Coast and in California, its not large. In the Mid West - yes.


    I don't think comparing to the likes of China or the U.S. is appropriate, Ireland probably fits in to most U.S. states a few times over. City status is an economic center for investment and it is proper that this small country looks to have more cities.



    Basing most activity towards Dublin is understandable and makes some sense but it has or will lead to an overload of population requirements and services that exist or are planned. Build other places up outside of Dublin, start with infrastructure and housing and businesses will come and they will become cities but they key is investment in the basics, housing, infrastructure, services, etc. If they are comparable to Dublin then the rest will come.


  • #39
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,121 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    md23040 wrote: »
    I don’t think a monorail, white elephant airports like Knock, fully connected dual carriageway access, nor city status would make any difference to the economy of either Sligo or Letterkenny even though any sort of incentives would be gladly welcomed.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/bishop-greets-proposal-for-new-city-in-the-west-1.286043
    There have been proposals for a new city in the West based on Knock. One from an American was to be called our lady's city.

    I think picking a winner and trying to develop it is probably not the best way to go. Spend some time and money developing the villages, towns and cities we already have and see how they develop. Maybe give them a bit of leeway about how funds are spent. I don't see why the various town councils were shut (other than the cost of paying the councillors - if cost is a problem don't pay them). A town like Tuam is well capable of some local administration and priority setting.


  • #40
    Hangdogroad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,870 ✭✭✭Hangdogroad


    road_high wrote: »
    Dont see why one location should be chosen over others and have state money lavished on it. Portlaoise is already well ahead of Athlone on population as is Kilkenny and Carlow yet somehow Athlone (which is a kip btw) is seen as some kind of holy grail. Ditto Sligo which barely registers 20k people.

    If its a kip competition Portlaoise wins hands down over Athlone. A city has to have something of interest beyond being a glorified commuter suburb for Dublin.


  • #41
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    I can’t understand the reasoning behind pushing for city stays for Sligo. It’s a****hole with nothing going for it. Very poor shopping compared to many other towns. The two out of town retail parks are dead, parking is limited for the town centre shopping centres and it’s just not a nice place to have to go to.

    The only good thing about Sligo is the fact that you can drive through it without having to stop.


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  • #42
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,341 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Athlone has more chance of major growth given it's closer proximity to Dublin than Sligo and it's better transportation links. With house pricing moving in one direction the 90 minute commute between Athlone and Dublin will become a thing soon I suspect for many. Athlone has potential for grown on both it's east and west suburbs. Athlone IT on east and the former Elan on West saw big growth for town in the 90s/00s

    Sligo town is right in middle of Sligo so unlike Athlone it's not really close to other countries like Athlone is to Roscommon, Offaly, Longford, Galway. Sligo town is closest to rural north Leitrim. One thing that does piss me off though is Athlone town council need to stop redesignating parts of Connacht as Westmeath..the boundary between Connacht and Leinster is the Shannon so everything west of Shannon is Connacht and County Roscommon.


  • #43
    rafatoni
    Registered Users Posts: 469 ✭✭rafatoni


    Gatling wrote: »
    It's essentially gone from village to town and still growing with a population of 64,000 and still growing and expanding its safe to say it won't be a suburb forever makes sense to me ,and many others I know for who would be more qualified than me to talk about it ,
    thought it was closer to 100k.. you can be in one part of tallaght and its 8km to another part? How can that be all the one place. Massive area neess to be broken out.

    I was down in Ranelagh last night. 5 min walk one way in donnybrook 5 min anothrr way is rathmines and 5 min back was milltown.


  • #44
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Sure China was supposed to be building a city in the midlands, if anyone knows how to use this sites terrible search function you might be able to find the thread about it.

    Athlone whatever it's current merits is the obvious location - bang central, on the Shannon, adjacent to an east-west motorway, rail links. the only thing it lacks is an international airport of course :)


  • #45
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    rainybillwill wrote: »
    I think Bundoran is less then 30mins from Sligo.

    You do realise though that you have to drive for another 2 to 2.5hrs to get to north Donegal!


  • #46
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,384 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Hangdogroad wrote: »
    If its a kip competition Portlaoise wins hands down over Athlone. A city has to have something of interest beyond being a glorified commuter suburb for Dublin.

    Comparing which is rougher is like asking which limb you’d like amputated. I never got the fascination with Athlone and why it should be pushed over above a dozen already larger towns


  • #47
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,341 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    road_high wrote: »
    Comparing which is rougher is like asking which limb you’d like amputated. I never got the fascination with Athlone and why it should be pushed over above a dozen already larger towns

    There isn't really a dozen bigger towns though

    Dundalk, Drogheda, Bray, Navan, Kilkenny, Ennis, Carlow, Tralee, Portlaoise, Newbridge and Naas are the only ones bigger and the population of Naas/Portlaoise and Athlone is extremely close ie circa 22,000 at last count.


  • #48
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Athlone is the natural hub of Ireland and should get many more opportunities. Slap up an IKEA to start with, and any new data centres.
    Once the city takes off it'll pull people from all regions.


  • #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »
    Kilkenny, I'd say, they've been trying for a while now.
    branie2 wrote: »
    How about Birr or Tullamore?
    Oh no, please leave Birr and Kilkenny alone.

    They're my favourite urban areas in the land, I always divert to one or the other when driving down home. Hide them, don't spoil them!

    Take Tullamore, take Athlone (gladly). I'll pay you to take Nenagh. They're the least-loved of my babies.


  • #50
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,557 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    Datuk Vaderthir wrote: »
    There's several benchmarks you can use.

    1. The old one was having a Cathedral with a Bishop in it. Oddly enough by that definition, tiny little Ferns, population barely 1,500, would be defined as a city. So too Saint David's (population 3,000) in Wales.

    2. Economic activity. Only one city fits your metric in Ireland - North and South - Dublin.

    But beyond that, lets have a look. Different countries have different population levels, so it varies drastically. What the Chinese and Indians call a city is something VAST, like Guangzhou, Shenzhen (Which are now so densely packed in that corridor of 140km that they may as well be just one VAST crazy conurbation. I mean thats something like 30 Million people, proving that a dialect (Cantonese) is a language without an Army and a Navy.

    Dublin would barely make city status by Chinese standards in the Eastern Industrial Provinces (States), but out in Xinjiang, Tibet, Heilongjiang where population levels are much more sparse, it a bloody big city.

    In America Dublin would be a city, but again thats 'State dependent'. On the East Coast and in California, its not large. In the Mid West - yes.

    Cantonese isn't really spoken that much in Shenzhen, its a migrant city and Mandarin is the lingua franca. The vast majority of the population of shenzhen are not from Guangdong Province originally.


  • #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    letterkenny is set up and would be a striking statement for balancing the region.

    sligo is a town without much potential for growth and difficult to put much more infrastructure in, between hills and coast.

    athlone is a one street kip tbh. do well to turn it into a town that works before getting notions about throwing more at it. and its too close to dublin to make a difference.

    anything south or east of athlone and you're just boosting a suburb of dublin

    money better spent on rail solutions tbh


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  • #52
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,384 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    There isn't really a dozen bigger towns though

    Dundalk, Drogheda, Bray, Navan, Kilkenny, Ennis, Carlow, Tralee, Portlaoise, Newbridge and Naas are the only ones bigger and the population of Naas/Portlaoise and Athlone is extremely close ie circa 22,000 at last count.

    So there’s already 11 urban centres bigger than Athlone! It doesn’t warrant anything over and above places that already have more people just because it happens to be located in the centre of Ireland. Lots of other centres Gabe strategic locations of their own too


  • #53
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,557 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    letterkenny is set up and would be a striking statement for balancing the region.

    sligo is a town without much potential for growth and difficult to put much more infrastructure in, between hills and coast.

    athlone is a one street kip tbh. do well to turn it into a town that works before getting notions about throwing more at it. and its too close to dublin to make a difference.

    anything south or east of athlone and you're just boosting a suburb of dublin

    money better spent on rail solutions tbh

    Letterkenny needs the border to be completely eradicated and to essentially merge with Derry as one urban area with unified strategies on transport, employment and local government.


  • #54
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    It hardly matters. None of them have any substantial infrastructural advantages over one another. Considering how little infrastructure these places have to begin with youre essentially comparing their importance based on how many extra few hundred sprawling suburban family homes one place has than the other.Of course that makes no difference to their actual importance or chances of growing in importance. They all just consist of one tiny manky little old main street, maybe a shopping centre and retail/business park, spawling suburbia, and some roads/motorways, that is the height of the infrastructural developments. At that stage it almost seems more rational to simply create a new town or city from scratch with none of the existing problems these places already experience and maybe aspire to make a really nice place to live rather than dealing with nimbys in bally go backwards to try and make some midlands kip liveable

    Ireland has no cities other than cork and dublin so it hardly matters which one is chosen to be the next city. No matter which one is chosen they all will need massive massive investments in order to transform them into any kind of city of substance and the arguments for choosing between two random tiny midlands towns arent going to make an iota of a difference to the amount of money needed or the outcome of the invesment


  • #55
    Flange/Flanders
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭Flange/Flanders


    Has to be Portlaoise to be the next city. Irelands fastest growing town, connected via motorway to 3 cities which no other town is. Easily commutable to Dublin. A large industrial area with a lot of potential for development. Close to other large urban areas like tullamore, carlow and kilkenny. Makes sense.


  • #56
    mvl
    Registered Users Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭mvl


    sligo, athlone seem to be doing pretty well on daytime working population, based on 2016 CSO stats
    - http://census.cso.ie/p6map43/
    anyhows, Midlands needs a city imo. be it a poly centric model with mullingar/tullamore/athlone, or a city - when I would favor athlone; its extremely well connected to everything by train/bus and motorway.
    (btw, does anyone know another town in ireland with 5 motorway exits but Athlone ?)
    - trying to figure out what's in it for ppl who seem to heavily dislike athlone


  • #57
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,228 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    touts wrote: »
    We don't need another city. Most of the current ones we have are towns with notions. Real cities around the world have populations greater than the whole population of this island. Looking for your local town or village to be granted city status is akin to a lad in a 3 bed semi sticking a blow up pool from lidl in his back garden and then boasting in work that how he owns a house with a swimming pool. Everyone knows the truth and is laughing at him.

    You sound like you moan a lot.


  • #58
    The Tetrarch
    Registered Users Posts: 2,092 ✭✭✭The Tetrarch


    Thread idea
    Which city should be demote to a town?
    (no marks for saying Maote)


  • #59
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Flange/Flanders wrote: »
    Has to be Portlaoise to be the next city. Irelands fastest growing town, connected via motorway to 3 cities which no other town is. Easily commutable to Dublin. A large industrial area with a lot of potential for development. Close to other large urban areas like tullamore, carlow and kilkenny. Makes sense.

    Fastest growing was Swords no? Or has that completely stopped?

    I'm not sure if portloaise will be much of a Midlands city, If we were to go by position, likely athlone. While all roads lead to dublin, athlone spurs out in all directions too.

    Next to that, I'd say we should ideally focus on developing locations with international connections. So much business is in dublin purely because of access to the airport and port.


  • #60
    ChikiChiki
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭ChikiChiki


    I'd like to see Athlone and Portlaoise grow. Both very centralised with good motorway and rail links. People will have more living options around the country.

    The Dublin infrastructure is inadequete for its growth rate. Its also sprawling too far outwards. Time to ship investment out of the capital which in reality will still be not far from Dublin. Sure the distance of Portlaoise and Athlone from Dublin would still be in the suburbs of some decent sized cities.


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  • #61
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Designation of city status should be = economic hub

    Athlone is obvious. (Midlands/Shannon)
    Sligo. (NW)

    Maybe Dundalk or Drogehda to directly take pressure off Dublin and service the NE/Border

    However, one of our cities Waterford is already grossly underfunded infrastructurally (it is Irelands closest deep water port to Europe) so I can't imagine wherever is chosen will be a success with the brutal planning in this country.


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