How are landlords getting away with this??

Samuel T. Cogley · 03-11-2019 10:00pm

Jadiel Salty Bandana wrote: »

If I were to privately rent a home, I would not extort tenants; period.

I'm sure you'd just try and cover the mortgage and tax...

Dav010 · 03-11-2019 10:02pm

Sleeper12 wrote: »

That's definitely not true. We had been warned for a few years before 2007. People decided to ignore the warnings. GWD itself was up for sale in 2007. They tried to sell their estate agents before it popped. Lots of people sold investment property in the mid 0s and bought again in 2010/2012. Plenty of LLs with several properties stopped buying around 2000.

Investment property has always been a long term investment.

I see, why did so many people lose their homes/investments if they were “long term investments”? To say that increase in value is guaranteed and without risk is naive. Tenants do not buy properties for Landlords, the rent they pay is in return for service/accommodation provided. You do not know, nor indeed is it of any concern to you, what that rent is needed or used for by the LL.

At the rate at which property prices are rising and the way world economies, particularly in the Eurozone are performing, you could be the only person who is certain markets/prices will not fall at some stage. I admire your optimism.

bo0li5eumx12kp · 03-11-2019 10:03pm

Dav010 wrote: »

That is how markets work, they are not always fair. Rents were lower a few years ago when supply exceeded demand, now it is the reverse.

I’m conscious that I may be responding to a very young person here, but while you may have a strong social conscience, on this one it may be misplaced, it is not a criminal offence to charge more two years later for the same property as long as regs are followed.

Remember, society owes you nothing.

We're not selling underwear at your local street fair here.

This is keeping a roof over peoples heads.

It's one of the necessities of living.

If the powers that be advocate that mentality - then I refer back to my suggestion of shooting them out of a cannon.

Remember, society owes you nothing.

The f*** it doesn't.

That's why were called a civilization.

Theoretically - we're only as strong as our weakest link.

Housing is a right - at least when you'e not living in some despotic third world culdesac from hell.

pinksoir · 03-11-2019 10:07pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I really don’t think you do.

Yep, you're right - I don't understand the very simple concept of supply and demand affecting market rates. I'm clearly an idiot.

Of course it isn’t perfectly fine, the fact that there is high demand, low stock, rising rents yet significant reduction in Landlords staying in/entering the market means it is very far from fine.

Totally agree here. A systemic issue. And also an issue resulting from the lack of regulation of the free market in housing over the longer term with brain dead reactionary government policies trying to remedy it.

But that still does not mean that you and the op are right.

Not sure what you think I'm claiming other than my opinion that in no version of current reality should a place in Sligo cost more than a similar place in Berlin, and that it was one of the reasons I left Ireland. I'm wrong to think that? And I was wrong to leave based on that belief? I was wrong to maximise my income?

As I posted earlier, your higher net salary in Dublin may not necessarily equate to more money in your pocket to spend.

Definitely not, but what are the drains on your income, for the type of person who would rent that place, that would be higher in Dublin? Aside from rent. Which is the issue here. Pints?

And yes, having lived in London and New York in the nineties,

Sligo is comparable to London or New York, but not to Berlin.

I paid a lot more for a lot less than this particular apartment.

We should never strive for better. Everyone should suffer as I have.

If I needed a flat to rent and this was the best out there for my budget, damn right I’d rent it.

I'd leave the ****ing country.

Dav010 · 03-11-2019 10:07pm

Jadiel Salty Bandana wrote: »

We're not selling underwear at your local street fair here.

This is keeping a roof over peoples heads.

It's one of the necessities of living.

If the powers that be advocate that mentality - then I refer back to my suggestion of shooting them out of a cannon.

The f*** it doesn't.

That's why were called a civilization.

Theoretically - we're only as strong as our weakest link.

Housing is a right - at least when you'e not living some despotic third world culdesac from hell.

Housing is not a right, and the sooner you understand that society owes you nothing, the better your life will be. You must earn the rights you believe you are entitled to. Uncivilised or not, my taxes should not be spent on you if you will not help yourself by earning a living and paying for a nice place to live.

To me you come across as someone who expects society to give you what you feel is your right, without you having to do anything for it. If you want a nice apartment, earn it.

Dav010 · 03-11-2019 10:14pm

pinksoir wrote: »

Yep, you're right - I don't understand the very simple concept of supply and demand affecting market rates. I'm clearly an idiot.

Totally agree here. A systemic issue. And also an issue resulting from the lack of regulation of the free market in housing over the longer term with brain dead reactionary government policies trying to remedy it.

Not sure what you think I'm claiming other than my opinion that in no version of current reality should a place in Sligo cost more than a similar place in Berlin, and that it was one of the reasons I left Ireland. I'm wrong to think that? And I was wrong to leave based on that belief? I was wrong to maximise my income?

Definitely not, but what are the drains on your income, for the type of person who would rent that place, that would be higher in Dublin? Aside from rent. Which is the issue here. Pints?

Sligo is comparable to London or New York, but not to Berlin.

We should never strive for better. Everyone should suffer as I have.

I'd leave the ****ing country.

You say you understand supply and demand, yet you don’t understand why an apartment in a large town here where there is no supply and high demand, costs the same as in a big city. That is an oxymoron.

I understood why it cost a lot more for a lot less in New York and London, supply and demand. And in case you think it was primarily because they were in such amazing locations, so can assure you where I lived was not Manhattan nor Notting Hill. I didn’t suffer, I thoroughly enjoyed both places, I certainly strived for better though, as I suspect whoever rents that apartment in Sligo will.

You left, your choice.

Sleeper12 · 03-11-2019 10:15pm

Dav010 wrote:

I see, why did so many people lose their homes/investments if they were â€œlong term investmentsâ€? To say that increase in value is guaranteed and without risk is naive. Tenants do not buy properties for Landlords, the rent they pay is in return for service/accommodation provided. You do not know, nor indeed is it of any concern to you, what that rent is needed or used for by the LL.

There are a lot of foolish people. A lot of people thought that everyone should be a landlord and took out mortgages that they couldn't afford. Now I'm not saying that anyone knew that a word banking crisis would hit & things would get so bad but many bought property that they couldn't afford even if there wasn't a crash

bo0li5eumx12kp · 03-11-2019 10:15pm

ABEasy wrote: »

I'm sure I'll regret the effort but, just to put things in perspective and show the op what the landlord is making charging that rip off rent, below is a reasonable estimation of costs assuming cost of apt is 70k, rent is actually paid and the tenants don't trash the place.

Rent 680x12=8160
Less
PRTB=90
LPT=90
Insurance=300
Agent fees 11%=898
Management fees=1000
Mortgage Interest (70k@4.5%)=3150
Life cover on mortgage=360
Annual maintenance=650
Accountant to file tax return=360
Phone and travel costs=250

Leaves a profit of 1012, eat of tax at higher rate, 606.

So the landlord is left with a net profit of 606, for taking a massive risk in providing a place for you to live!!

Just to put it into perspective

Aw Christ.

Go back to playing videogames pal.

Gumbo · 03-11-2019 10:16pm

Technocentral wrote: »

Plus Germans aren't a bunch of greedy bastards like the Irish.

Didn’t they steal a lot of gold from a particular race?

lalababa · 03-11-2019 10:21pm

680 for a box apartment in Sligo town is a bit on the high side. But sure that's the craic now.

bo0li5eumx12kp · 03-11-2019 10:29pm

Dav010 wrote: »

I really don’t think you do.

Of course it isn’t perfectly fine, the fact that there is high demand, low stock, rising rents yet significant reduction in Landlords staying in/entering the market means it is very far from fine. But that still does not mean that you and the op are right.

As I posted earlier, your higher net salary in Dublin may not necessarily equate to more money in your pocket to spend.

And yes, having lived in London and New York in the nineties, I paid a lot more for a lot less than this particular apartment. If I needed a flat to rent and this was the best out there for my budget, damn right I’d rent it.

Are you actually comparing bogus ass London/New York with back water town Sligo - west of Ireland?

lolwut?

ABEasy · 03-11-2019 10:33pm

Jadiel Salty Bandana wrote: »

Aw Christ.

Go back to playing videogames pal.

Really? I'm the one who spends his time playing videogames. My profession allows me to see the finances of various landlords in various locations (national and international). The figures I quoted are an accurate portrayal of a typical rental property. The problem with attitudes similar to yours is that you listen to all the BS you see on FB without digging into the facts. I'm just trying to educate you on the reality of being a landlord. Remember that are providing you with accommodation, without them where would you be sleeping?

Dav010 · 03-11-2019 10:36pm

Jadiel Salty Bandana wrote: »

Are you actually comparing bogus ass London/New York with back water town Sligo - west of Ireland?

lolwut?

No, market forces like supply and demand are at work in all three.

Perhaps it would be educational for you to see how much a one bed apartment costs in bogus ass London/New York.

bo0li5eumx12kp · 03-11-2019 10:38pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Housing is not a right, and the sooner you understand that society owes you nothing, the better your life will be. You must earn the rights you believe you are entitled to. Uncivilised or not, my taxes should not be spent on you if you will not help yourself by earning a living and paying for a nice place to live.

To me you come across as someone who expects society to give you what you feel is your right, without you having to do anything for it. If you want a nice apartment, earn it.

Let me tell you, if your attitude is a reflection of the grand mal one currently in place in Ireland (which it clearly is) - then the housing/rental crises is generated via a cultural issue, much more than an economic one.

pinksoir · 03-11-2019 10:41pm

Dav010 wrote: »

You say you understand supply and demand, yet you don’t understand why an apartment in a large town here where there is no supply and high demand, costs the same as in a big city. That is an oxymoron.

The problem is that you are conflating my personal opinion and values about the costs of a property in a provincial Irish town, i.e., how I feel imperatively about it, with my understanding of market forces. You do realise that one can feel a certain way about current reality whilst also recognising the causes of that reality?

And one can also try to understand that there are other approaches to resource management that do not rely entirely upon the free market.

I understood why it cost a lot more for a lot less in New York and London, supply and demand. And in case you think it was primarily because they were in such amazing locations, so can assure you where I lived was not Manhattan nor Notting Hill.

As above, the free market can be regulated. Everywhere doesn't necessarily have to be like London or New York. Some places can be like... Berlin.

I didn’t suffer, I thoroughly enjoyed both places, I certainly strived for better though, as I suspect whoever rents that apartment in Sligo will.

Not you individually. Better for us as a society. Better for everyone. “A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit”.

'Planting trees? Sure what's in that for me?'

You left, your choice.

I love Ireland and miss my friends and family. The choice was to be broke paying insane rents or to flourish.

[Deleted User] · 03-11-2019 10:42pm

ABEasy wrote: »

Really? I'm the one who spends his time playing videogames. My profession allows me to see the finances of various landlords in various locations (national and international). The figures I quoted are an accurate portrayal of a typical rental property. The problem with attitudes similar to yours is that you listen to all the BS you see on FB without digging into the facts. I'm just trying to educate you on the reality of being a landlord. Remember that are providing you with accommodation, without them where would you be sleeping?

investment in property to rent is not measured solely based on net annual income

its based on the increased value of the property between purchase and disposal

never understood why owners always try to sneak that by in any conversation

Graham · 03-11-2019 10:42pm

Mod Note

LaptopGremlin, raise the standard of your posts or stop posting.

bo0li5eumx12kp · 03-11-2019 10:48pm

ABEasy wrote: »

Really? I'm the one who spends his time playing videogames. My profession allows me to see the finances of various landlords in various locations (national and international). The figures I quoted are an accurate portrayal of a typical rental property. The problem with attitudes similar to yours is that you listen to all the BS you see on FB without digging into the facts. I'm just trying to educate you on the reality of being a landlord. Remember that are providing you with accommodation, without them where would you be sleeping?

Perhaps on a grander scale, Dublin etc - your figures are relevant.
I don't honestly know - although regardless they do seem inflated - though I'm not one to dicker.

<SNIP>

Higher end apartments going at the same rate?

I'm not happy about it - but that's not the issue at hand.

THIS issue, is a shoe box with low LL costs involved, is grotesquely overpriced.

That's why I made this thread.

<SNIP>

There's a subculture of "get when the getting is good", aka - greed - amongst landlords.
The powers that be see fit to let that run rampant on this fair Isle.

Their incompetency doesn't justify these inflated rental prices.

ABEasy · 03-11-2019 10:50pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

investment in property to rent is not measured solely based on net annual income

its based on the increased value of the property between purchase and disposal

never understood why owners always try to sneak that by in any conversation

But it's not, that was the fundamental issue with the property crash in 2007, investors ignored return and gambled on capital appreciation. If you are in the business properly you will never sell your assets/investments (may sell and re-buy), so capital appreciation or depreciation doesn't come into the equation.

bo0li5eumx12kp · 03-11-2019 10:50pm

Dav010 wrote: »

No, market forces like supply and demand are at work in all three.

Perhaps it would be educational for you to see how much a one bed apartment costs in bogus ass London/New York.

I'm very aware what they cost.

That amongst other reasons, is why I referred to them as "bogus".

Like you, I've lived in both.

Graham · 03-11-2019 11:17pm

Mod Note

Thread re-opened.

LaptopGremlin as you have met the landlord & identified the property, any further comments about the landlord will result in an immediate forum ban.

Do not reply to this post.

ABEasy · 03-11-2019 11:23pm

Jadiel Salty Bandana wrote: »

Perhaps on a grander scale, Dublin etc - your figures are relevant.
I don't honestly know - although regardless they do seem inflated - though I'm not one to dicker.

<SNIP>

Higher end apartments going at the same rate?

I'm not happy about it - but that's not the issue at hand.

THIS issue, is a shoe box with low LL costs involved, is grotesquely overpriced.

That's why I made this thread.

<SNIP>

There's a subculture of "get when the getting is good", aka - greed - amongst landlords.
The powers that be see fit to let that run rampant on this fair Isle.

Their incompetency doesn't justify these inflated rental prices.

But what figures I quoted do you believe are incorrect, because in a typical case they are correct.

In this case the landlord manages the property himself, would you have a problem if the landlord made a few extra quid working overtime in his 9-5? Because he is giving up his time managing the property himself, this is time he could be working and earning an increased wage or spending time with his family. By him doing this work he is saving the cost of an agent, and hence earning the equivalent of the agents costs. I wouldn't view this as increased rental profit but rather earned income as he has to actually work to earn the equivalent of the agents fees.

Genuine question, would you have a problem with this property if it was being let by a REIT or large corporate landlord?

STB. · 03-11-2019 11:31pm

Jadiel Salty Bandana wrote: »

We're not selling underwear at your local street fair here.

This is keeping a roof over peoples heads.

It's one of the necessities of living.

If the powers that be advocate that mentality - then I refer back to my suggestion of shooting them out of a cannon.

You seem to have confused a state run social housing system with services offered by private land owners.

Your expectations and sense of entitlement are baffling. I have never heard such nonsense.

redarmyblues · 04-11-2019 12:03am

It appears to me that the OP it's cross at having to live in shanty hick Sligo and not being able to afford the cheapest rental in said shanty hick town or maybe the LL decided they preferred a different tenant after living the high Life in NYC and London Town, poor thing. First we take Manhattan, then we take Cranmore.

mydingaling2 · 04-11-2019 12:18am

Compared to some of the kips i used to rent in Dublin to have my own place that place is a bloody paradise for 680. What does OP expect it to go for? 400?

If you can't afford it on your current wage then that's your fault, get a better job.

For a couple at 340 each its actually quite cheap. I'm not sure if OP realizes that getting your own place as a single person is quite pricey.

redarmyblues · 04-11-2019 12:31am

Sligo is actually pretty good value, you can get a 6 bed see front mansion in Rosses Point (the Dalkey of Sligo) for 3600pm which is less than a 2 bed apt in an alley off Lad Lane that I came across today.

https://touch.daft.ie/sligo/houses-for-rent/rosses-point/unique-luxury-seafront-rental-rosses-point-rosses-point-sligo-1880867

Ludikrus · 04-11-2019 12:36am

Good luck comrade!

Blaizes · 04-11-2019 12:41am

An apartment with only a microwave !

redarmyblues · 04-11-2019 12:45am

Blaizes wrote: »

An apartment with only a microwave !

It says new kitchen.

[Deleted User] · 04-11-2019 12:53am

pinksoir wrote: »

Not sure what you think I'm claiming other than my opinion that in no version of current reality should a place in Sligo cost more than a similar place in Berlin, and that it was one of the reasons I left Ireland. I'm wrong to think that? And I was wrong to leave based on that belief? I was wrong to maximise my income?
.

You are right a place in Sligo should not cost more than a place in Berlin, this is the case though because rents are being held artificially low in Berlin not that they are too high in Sligo.

It’s pointless using Germany in any of these debates are they are a total outlier in Europe if not the world due to WW2. The housing market in Germany is not the norm it’s the exception and is not something to be comparing to or trying to emulate.

How are landlords getting away with this??

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