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09-11-2018, 00:00   #496
RandomName2
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Originally Posted by Fuaranach View Post
The real question is, can a worldview that brings us the concept of "the good imperialists worthy of commemoration" also bring us the concept of "the good fascists worthy of commemoration"?

If not, why not?
Oh but you would, presumably, be open to the idea of 'the good fascists worthy of commemoration'. The enemy of my enemy, after all?

Your analysis is so all over the place I don't know where to start. There wasn't any such thing as fascism in 1914. I suspect you are talking about a different period, and a different country, under a different government, with a different war, with different people involved, and you ask ironically: why don't we celebrate the fascists, if we are going to honor the dead of WW1. Never mind you conflate everybody who fought under fascism as fighting for fascism.

Not only a narrow field of view, not only a poor judge of distance, but seeing everything in monochrome too.
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09-11-2018, 00:00   #497
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I don't have a problem with people choosing to wear the poppy, but I really object to the pressure to wear one in the UK. The James McClean issue been case in point.
In is now at the stage where a German player in the premiership would probably be expected to wear a poppy.
That would actually be quite funny
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09-11-2018, 00:07   #498
FrancieBrady
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Originally Posted by Folkstonian View Post
What is so terrible about showing acknowledgement and gratitude for soldiers serving now or in recent conflicts?
It is simply deplorable that an Irish person would want to do that. The RBL has no discrimination against who it supports. It is an adjunct to the continuing British war machine.

We should be raging against this machine. Not pandering to it.
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09-11-2018, 00:16   #499
Folkstonian
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Why are 40,000 Irish dying for the British Empire more worthy of commemoration than 40,000 English dying for the British Empire? A thug is a thug no matter where they come from. I'd side with the English guys in the GPO than the Irish-born British soldiers in your army, so your very English recruiting sergeant attempt at rising my sympathy for "The poor Irish fighting for their country" is hilarious. I'm firmly, and steadfastly, with the Arthur McBrides of Irish history

If the Russians, etc were continuing to occupy part of my country, I'm sure I'd develop the requisite response to that. As they're not, and as this indeed is not a thread seeking sympathy for the footsoldiers of the Russian Empire,... (this shouldn't be rocket science, but it seems to be)
You come across as such a rather troubled person, with each of your beautifully constructive missives absolutely bristling with anger.

You now appear to have labelled each and every man who served in the British expeditionary forces in four devastating years of war as a ‘thug’.

So many millions of human stories of heroism, sacrifice, terrible loss, skill, endurance, humour, bravery, misery, boredom, excitement fear, ingenuity, etc, but you can do no more than to label all those men as ‘thugs’.

Now, I’m not sure if the red mist that clouds your vision is so thick that you truly believe that, or you are using such language in a callous, viscous fashion for the shock factor so as to draw out an angry response that you would surely see as a moral victory.

Either way, it’s far from subtle, and my personal opinion is you couldn’t be more wrong, or more ignorant, although honestly I think somebody as clearly obsessive as you are deserves only pity.

Enjoy bickering away in the thread for evermore, but I’ll be ignoring you. Others should do the same.
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09-11-2018, 01:32   #500
riffmongous
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What is so terrible about showing acknowledgement and gratitude for soldiers serving now or in recent conflicts? Do you support the work of the Irish defence forces in peacekeeping roles? Nobody tries to deny who the RBL poppy appeal supports btw, it’s on their website.
How many of the Bloody Sunday killers have been brought to justice, to start with the very lowest hanging fruit?

There are plenty here who will deny it unfortunately
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09-11-2018, 03:14   #501
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Why? Time for a blitz on every bóthairín, sráidbhaile and baile in Ireland to commemorate all the victims of the very same British Empire that Myers glorified ad nauseam (while, in true Jekyll and Hyde form, feigning moral superiority by condemning violence when it was carried out for political aims with which he disagreed, especially by the native Irish forces of resistance in the last remnant of the British Empire in Ireland). We could smother this island in commemorations to the native Irish victims of British imperialism if we started. Why, pray tell, do you think Irish-born people who fought for something as morally reprehensible as imperialism deserve commemoration? Just because it was the British Empire? Bingo.



Great, so you want Irish people in 2018 to commemorate British people in 1914 who joined the army of the empire occupying Ireland because they needed the money? Can you extend this generous attitude to every other person in history who joined something supremacist/ignoble because they needed money? Or is this a special "understanding" only reserved for people who used violence for the political aims of the British Empire?
No I think most people would like to recognise and remember the centenary of the 1918 Armistice, whether you want to wear a poppy or not, you should at least on the 11th hour of the 11th Day of the 11th Month spare a thought for the many who died in the new method of warfare "The Trench" many of them still in the fields of Europe never brought home to their families but remembered as a name and number on a roll of the dead and missing.

Nobody is asking that you should cry, or beat your chest or Ululate in remorse but just respect the fallen from all nations of the first truly WORLDWIDE conflict, it's so much more than just "Poppyday"
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09-11-2018, 07:02   #502
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Originally Posted by Folkstonian View Post
What is so terrible about showing acknowledgement and gratitude for soldiers serving now or in recent conflicts? Do you support the work of the Irish defence forces in peacekeeping roles? Nobody tries to deny who the RBL poppy appeal supports btw, it’s on their website.



.....because they were colonial wars, a great many of them.
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09-11-2018, 07:12   #503
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Mairead McGuinness wearing a poppy on QT but Jordan Peterson not wearing one. Says it all really.
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09-11-2018, 07:26   #504
Odhinn
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Originally Posted by Folkstonian View Post
You come across as such a rather troubled person, with each of your beautifully constructive missives absolutely bristling with anger.

You now appear to have labelled each and every man who served in the British expeditionary forces in four devastating years of war as a ‘thug’.

So many millions of human stories of heroism, sacrifice, terrible loss, skill, endurance, humour, bravery, misery, boredom, excitement fear, ingenuity, etc, but you can do no more than to label all those men as ‘thugs’.

....................

Yep, heroism and sacrifice allright. Not by the Brits though.

"In what has been described by the historian Caroline Elkins as Britain's own "Gulag", Africans resisting white settlers were roasted alive in addition to being hanged to death. Barack Obama's own grandfather had pins pushed into his fingers and his testicles squeezed between metal rods."

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...=ILCNETTXT3487


Fresh evidence of brutal treatment meted out by British forces to opponents of colonial rule in the 1950s has been revealed in secret files showing how they attacked and killed with impunity in Cyprus, where their victims included a blind man and a 17-year-old youth.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/...s-1950s-cyprus
"The "elimination of ranking terrorists" was a repeated theme in secret monthly reports on casualty figures circulated by the director of intelligence in British-controlled Malaya during the 1950s."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...yan-insurgency


That's just a small sample, but it gets the idea across I think.
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09-11-2018, 07:27   #505
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yerra ffs anyone who believes that is seriously fooling themselves.

WWII was ultimately settled by the USSR and the US. And the turning point of the war was Germany's folly into the USSR. Stalingrad alone cost the USSR 1.1m soldiers in deaths and casualties.

But it was the 27000 Irish people...

One only has to look at the number of USAF bases in the UK to understand who really 'won' the war.
Total ‘poppy-cock’ alright......never heard such a claim before......it’s a bit like the romantic idea that is pedaled about the Irish ‘building’ America and UK in the 50’s & 60’s.
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09-11-2018, 08:19   #506
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so as to draw out an angry response that you would surely see as a moral victory.
That's kinda what those with a predilection for war and an immoral arms industry do, is it not?
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09-11-2018, 08:38   #507
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There will be a Remembrance ceremony on Sunday 11/11 at the Irish National War Memorial Gardens, with two minutes' silence at 11:00 sharp. I expect to see a lot of people there, even members of the government. The silence will be observed.
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09-11-2018, 10:04   #508
The Rape of Lucretia
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Total ‘poppy-cock’ alright......never heard such a claim before......it’s a bit like the romantic idea that is pedaled about the Irish ‘building’ America and UK in the 50’s & 60’s.
Britain courageously stood alone against the threat of the Nazi jackboot when invasion looked certain and long before the US and USSR were entangled. It could have done a deal with Mr. Hitler, but stood up to be counted in the darkest hour, whilst other, Ireland included, cowardly looked the other way or said doing nothing was honourable.
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09-11-2018, 10:23   #509
citytillidie
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Remember Ireland was part of the United Kingdom at the time of the First World War. So Irish fighting under the British were fighting under the ruler at the time.
I hope you know the difference between the UK and Great Britain, Ireland can not and never have been part of Britain considering it is a completely different Island.
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09-11-2018, 10:27   #510
FrancieBrady
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Originally Posted by The Rape of Lucretia View Post
Britain courageously stood alone against the threat of the Nazi jackboot when invasion looked certain and long before the US and USSR were entangled. It could have done a deal with Mr. Hitler, but stood up to be counted in the darkest hour, whilst other, Ireland included, cowardly looked the other way or said doing nothing was honourable.
Anyone who looks at the actual history of the war through the 'heroic' glasses of British propaganda is suspect.

Without wanting to go off topic, the defence of Britain was a lot more complicated than a nation of shopkeepers and Sunday boaters standing tall against the mighty Germans.
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