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View Poll Results: Should we stop bullying the UK?
Yes, they are our neighbor 88 17.46%
Give them 800 years (then stop bullying them) 416 82.54%
Voters: 504. You may not vote on this poll

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21-02-2018, 02:05   #61
Peregrinus
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Originally Posted by Capt'n Midnight View Post
If the UK goes "full retard" with a Hard Brexit to WTO terms it will impact our economy by 7%, so we should make it very clear to the UK that if they are stupid enough to expect us to roll over for them we'll use our veto the first chance we get to cause maximum damage.
This would be stupidity countering stupidity. If we were to use our veto to veto a Brexit deal we didn't like, the result would be a no-deal Brexit, and the hardest of hard borders - the very result that we say would injure and offend us.

The only deal we would even consider vetoing is a Brexit deal which included an agreed hard border. We would never agree to that. But neither will the EU, so we won't have to deploy our veto to avoid it; no such deal will ever be put to us. Plus, the UK government is also committed to avoiding a hard border; they have said this consistently. So saying that we would veto a deal that provided for a hard border is not offensive, threatening or bullying to the UK; all we are saying is that we would veto a deal which the UK itself does not want.

It might be offensive to ultra-Brexiters, who actively want a no-deal Brexit and a hard border and believe that the UK government should be targetting it. But they are a small minority and, despite their Mussolini-like delusions, do not embody or represent the United Kingdom. If they take offence at our defence of our own interests, well, I can live with that. But I will deride anyone who says that, by offending them, we are "bullying the United Kingdom".
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21-02-2018, 12:00   #62
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It reminds me of some of the arguments made by ultra conservatives generally.
"Stop bullying me flaunting your (insert characteristic of group they don't like) all over the place!!"

I mean it was awful they way Ireland bullied them during the famine. We really did make such a fuss about starving to death. Have you any idea how uncomfortable that made some members of the establishment?!
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21-02-2018, 12:05   #63
DEFTLEFTHAND
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Bullying them? My opinion of Britain has sky rocketed since Brexit. Who would have ever thought it eh? Britain the rebels, I'm so proud of them and what they've set in motion.

See we come at from a completely different perspective as a net drain and insignificant EU member.
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21-02-2018, 12:07   #64
lawred2
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Originally Posted by DEFTLEFTHAND View Post
Bullying them? My opinion of Britain has sky rocketed since Brexit. Who would have ever thought it eh? Britain the rebels, I'm so proud of them and what they've set in motion.

See we come at from a completely different perspective as a net drain and insignificant EU member.


righto chap
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21-02-2018, 12:13   #65
ohnonotgmail
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Originally Posted by DEFTLEFTHAND View Post
Bullying them? My opinion of Britain has sky rocketed since Brexit. Who would have ever thought it eh? Britain the rebels, I'm so proud of them and what they've set in motion.

See we come at from a completely different perspective as a net drain and insignificant EU member.
we are now net contributors to the EU.
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21-02-2018, 12:25   #66
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The irony is that many countries spent decades and centuries trying to get independence from the UK having been taken by force during the colonial period and now the Tories have pillaged that narrative and used it against a voluntary, cooperative organisation they applied to be a member of.

It's a bizzare distortion if a colonial victim's narrative being applied to a grown up arrangement between states on an entirely voluntary basis.

The UK voted to leave the EU and the EU said: OK! Bye. Here's your share of the bills.

The UK then said : listen up (insert list of derogatory terms for EU nationalities) : OMG that's soooooooooo unfair. Also we demand to be able to use all of your facilities for perpetuity at no cost and screw your rules! If you don't grant us this, you're bullying us!! Omg it sooooo totally unfair! You're fascists!! Aghhh!!

It then spent months shouting at itself and in deep negotiations with tabloid newspapers for some reason. Meanwhile the EU keeps asking what the UK wants and the UK keeps making meaningless statements about a big and beautiful Brexit.

Last edited by Skedaddle; 21-02-2018 at 12:32.
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21-02-2018, 12:31   #67
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The irony is that many countries spent decades and centuries trying to get independence from the UK having been taken by force during the colonial period and now the Tories have pillaged that narrative and used it against a voluntary, cooperative organisation they applied to be a member of.
Wait until Scotland's next independence campaign. All this talk of national sovereignty from the likes of Rees-Mogg will dry up pretty quickly.
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21-02-2018, 12:41   #68
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Originally Posted by jooksavage View Post
Wait until Scotland's next independence campaign. All this talk of national sovereignty from the likes of Rees-Mogg will dry up pretty quickly.
That's dangerous use of logic which may be outlawed under the Control of Heretics and Thought Crimes Against Brexit Act.
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21-02-2018, 12:46   #69
RoboRat
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They're literally occupying over a fifth of the country, so the "bullying" claim is completely laughable.

I haven't been a big fan of Varadkar for various reasons, but to be quite honest I'm happy with how he has been handling Brexit. A no bullshhit approach.
Have to agree re Varadkar, past politicians would have been happy to sit on the fence and try as usual to appease everyone, except the inhabitants of this island. He is standing up for the country and laying a marker in the sand and whilst I was extremely skeptical when he took office, he has changed my opinion.
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21-02-2018, 12:48   #70
Billy86
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Originally Posted by Peregrinus View Post
Well, in fairness, they didn't vote to have May as Prime Minister. The Tories got 42% of the vote in the 2017 election, the only one they have fought with May as leader. 58% of the voters seem to want someone else. It's just the vagaries of the quaintly crapulous UK election system that has put her in office.

Still, I don't see how they can blame Irish bullying for that. Unless you consoder the DUP to be a manifestation of Irish bullying, of course. Which I suppose is at least arguable!
That doesn't hold weight though, since 1970 the only PM to get more than May's 42.4% were Blair in 1997 (43.4%) and Thatcher in 1979 (43.9%). The last time anyone got an outright majority in a UK election was Stanley Baldwin in 1931 by the looks of things - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...eral_elections

The Tories vastly under-performed last year in what was supposed to be a 'power grab' election for them, but they will wound up a percentage of voters that has only twice (and barely at that) been bested in almost half a century. I think almost all of us wish they weren't making the decisions they have been in the last few years, but since they have done so the benefits of democracy dictate they get to live with them.

Meanwhile we're probably one of the most pro-EU nations out there, so we'll stick with our wishes and they can have theirs.
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21-02-2018, 12:48   #71
Aegir
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Originally Posted by Skedaddle View Post
That's dangerous use of logic which may be outlawed under the Control of Heretics and Thought Crimes Against Brexit Act.
although it is kind of ironic that when the SNP used the same argument, it was considered a bonafide one.
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21-02-2018, 12:55   #72
Billy86
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Originally Posted by jooksavage View Post
Which politicians?

Unless they start repoulating places like St. Kildas and Scarba...
Got some laugh out of that considering St. Kilda in Melbourne is maybe the biggest area for Irish migrants in Australia.
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21-02-2018, 13:10   #73
Billy86
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Wait until Scotland's next independence campaign. All this talk of national sovereignty from the likes of Rees-Mogg will dry up pretty quickly.
As much as that would be the result, there will be no second referendum. Why? Because that would be the result.
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21-02-2018, 13:33   #74
10000maniacs
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They do not have an opinion either way and neither should we.

Uk or their great pals the US can do us a lot of economic damage if we get too uppity as a country and start making life difficult for them. The US could influence a sharp reduction in FDI and tourist spending and really screw us over.

The UK are responsible for 45% of our foreign trade and we cannot afford to lose that.

The reality is that a lot of people in the US and UK are not in favour of Brexit and only are doing it to get votes from the ordinary xenophobic, anti foreigner voter.

The real powers that be would prefer harmony and unity in Europe and the US would prefer to deal with a UK in the EU. The Conservatives and Labour are looking to maintain as much advantage by keeping as close as possible to full membership but they realise that to say so will cost votes and they would sell their mother for votes.
45% of our trade is both ways.
Easy to remedy if need be. We don't need the UK.
Bovril, Weetabix, Cocoa, Steak and Kidney pie. Just about everything in Marks and Sparks, Steel rail tracks, coal, pothole covers, Lyons Tea, Toys, etc.
Every one of those examples is available somewhere else in the world at a similar price.
And produce less farm products and comsume it ourselves.
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21-02-2018, 13:43   #75
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although it is kind of ironic that when the SNP used the same argument, it was considered a bonafide one.
By some. The Scots are a lot more pragmatic about nationalism than the Brexiteers. It's actually unlikely at present that Scotland would go for independence. It's also hard to know whether the Tories would grant it, or whether they'd turn on Scotland like Spain's conservative PP did on Catalonia. I'm not saying sending in the army, but just refusing to grant the results of a referendum.
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