Irish Ferries Add Capacity to Dublin Holyhead Route

seanmacc · 07-11-2013 3:23pm #1

http://www.irishferries.com/ie-en/news/news131107/

Probably one of the worst kept secrets in Irish Shipping, but it has finally been officially announced.

Cartour Epsilon will take up the Dublin Holyhead Route in addition to the Ulysess and Jonathan Swift before the end of the year. The time slots I'd imagine will be something similar to that of the Stena Nordica.

Over the years announcements like this have meant 100+ extra jobs, but not in this instance or with this company. All jobs on board will be filled by ICG owned crewing agency Matrix based in Cyprus.

Will this move strike a major blow to Stena, P&O and Seatruck?

V_Moth · 07-11-2013 3:48pm

Interesting. I wonder if it will take foot passengers?

seanmacc · 07-11-2013 3:52pm

V_Moth wrote: »

Interesting. I wonder if it will take foot passengers?

I believe it won't unless the Jonathan Swift is cancelled. It is running with a PC of 500 plus crew which is less that the J Swift.

munchkin_utd · 08-11-2013 10:24am

seanmacc wrote: »

<snip>
Over the years announcements like this have meant 100+ extra jobs, but not in this instance or with this company. All jobs on board will be filled by ICG owned crewing agency Matrix based in Cyprus.<snip>

if Ryanair can hire all staff centrally via Ireland then no reason why Irish Ferries cant hire/ "base" all their staff in Cyprus .

munchkin_utd · 08-11-2013 10:35am

Relating to the actual ship, It'll be interesting to see how many protests there are about "step ramps" and open air car decks with this ship, seeing as its a sister ship to the current and past Celtic Link ships that so many folks didn't and still don't like.

I also presume that Stena will go all North European on it and make the place a little darker, add carpets (magnets for dirt and the remnants of sea sickness) than the original "Italian ice cream parlour" fittings that you see on celtic link that again just isnt plush enough for some folks taste.

Rabbitt · 08-11-2013 4:47pm

Hi.
Just a few questions I hope you may be able to help me with.
Does the extra ship now mean more competition and lower prices for passengers between Dublin and Holyhead?

Now a few random questions .
Will Irish Ferries or Stena ever sail direct between Dublin and Liverpool or Dublin and France?
Is the HSS in service and will old style ferries ever use Dun Laoghaire again?

seanmacc · 08-11-2013 11:41pm

Rabbitt wrote: »

Hi.
Just a few questions I hope you may be able to help me with.
Does the extra ship now mean more competition and lower prices for passengers between Dublin and Holyhead?

Now a few random questions .
Will Irish Ferries or Stena ever sail direct between Dublin and Liverpool or Dublin and France?
Is the HSS in service and will old style ferries ever use Dun Laoghaire again?

It will probably mean lower freight costs, I doubt passenger (foot or car) will drop as a result. This ship has been brought in as a challenge to Stena who has been picking off freight customers from Irish Ferries because they have more frequency in freight sailings, the Epsillon will be a predominantly freight service.

No operator wants to go to Liverpool right now. The fuel costs are killing Seatruck and P&O at the moment.

None of the conventional ferries will ever use Dun Laoghaire again as the roads round the town don't need the HGV traffic and the bay will have to be deepened.

Rabbitt · 08-11-2013 11:52pm

seanmacc wrote: »

It will probably mean lower freight costs, I doubt passenger (foot or car) will drop as a result. This ship has been brought in as a challenge to Stena who has been picking off freight customers from Irish Ferries because they have more frequency in freight sailings, the Epsillon will be a predominantly freight service.

No operator wants to go to Liverpool right now. The fuel costs are killing Seatruck and P&O at the moment.

None of the conventional ferries will ever use Dun Laoghaire again as the roads round the town don't need the HGV traffic and the bay will have to be deepened.

Cheers fir that.
That would be super sailing to France from Dublin but a pain getting dropped off in Rosslare coming home.
Is it really that more expensive to sail to Liverpool?

Shame about Dun Laoghaire

seanmacc · 09-11-2013 12:09am

Rabbitt wrote: »

Cheers fir that.
That would be super sailing to France from Dublin but a pain getting dropped off in Rosslare coming home.
Is it really that more expensive to sail to Liverpool?

Shame about Dun Laoghaire

Seacat and Irish Sea Express tried a 4 hour passenger fast craft run which was extremely popular from Dublin to Liverpool but both went belly up on the route.
Seacat in 2004 and Irish Sea Express in 2005 after taking over the route.

Merchant Ferries, Norfolk Line and DFDS ran freight sailings with small a passenger capacity to Liverpool and couldn't make it profitable. DFDS, the last ones to try bailed out in 2011.

Currently P&O and Seatruck operate into Liverpool from Dublin, P&O being the only one taking motorists (no foot passengers) and both are losing money hand over fist on the route. The general consensus in shipping at the moment is one is waiting for the other to collapse in the hope of picking up the scraps. You have two of the biggest shipping companies in the world (Seatruck is owned by Clipper) can't make a go of it so I can't see how anyone else can?

munchkin_utd · 10-11-2013 11:53pm

There's a report that the epsilon will be in service from the 24th November but there's an extra two services on the Dublin holyhead route ran instead by the Oscar Wilde according to the booking engine.

http://afloat.ie/port-news/ferry-news/item/23783-irish-ferries-new-‘epsilon’-set-for-november-debut-in-run-up-to-seasonal-competition

Either way, the epsilon appears on the bookings from8th December so the very stena-esque intermediate sailing times are indeed confirmed.

loyatemu · 11-11-2013 12:48am

how much extra sailing time would it add to sail from Dublin to Cherbourg as opposed to from Rosslare? Its less than 2 hours drive to Rosslare and its only going to get quicker as there will be motorway all the way to Enniscorthy within the next 5 years... can't see it being a winner myself.

munchkin_utd · 11-11-2013 10:06am

loyatemu wrote: »

how much extra sailing time would it add to sail from Dublin to Cherbourg as opposed to from Rosslare? Its less than 2 hours drive to Rosslare and its only going to get quicker as there will be motorway all the way to Enniscorthy within the next 5 years... can't see it being a winner myself.

was thinking that myself initially but theres a certain beauty about it, especially when its a Friday afternoon departure and for Dublin based folk that means being able to work the day or a good part of it and then have a very small journey to the port.
And for anyone north or west of Dublin it means a good road to Dublin port (and off peak port tunnel) rather than the trek across the country to get to Rosslare.
For truckers you are saving the 150 odd km to get to Rosslare, and with consumption @32L/100km you are saving about 70 Euro in cash and get to park up and have a pint on the ferry earlier on Friday!

and just work out what effect having the loading in Rosslare would have to when you land in France

From the looks of it, it would take say 4hours to get to Rosslare.
Departing Dublin at 2.30pm, you'd be arriving at 6.30 and then departing at 7 or 7.30 after the docking and loading in Rosslare.
Going from Rosslare, you'd be in France 17hours after that 7.30pm departure, and going at the same rate as her celtic link sister ship would leave you in Cherbourg at 1.30pm local time.

If you depart from Dublin and go straight to France you could do it in 4+17=21 hours if you just took it as being "via" Rosslare. Going straight to France though would be maybe 20km less, so a half hour saved so 20.5hours. So you'd be in France at midday local time.

On the way back the passenger benefits from being dropped in Rosslare as you can complete the journey by road, but on the outbound it only delays their arrival in France

seanmacc · 11-11-2013 11:03am

munchkin_utd wrote: »

There's a report that the epsilon will be in service from the 24th November but there's an extra two services on the Dublin holyhead route ran instead by the Oscar Wilde according to the booking engine.

http://afloat.ie/port-news/ferry-news/item/23783-irish-ferries-new-‘epsilon’-set-for-november-debut-in-run-up-to-seasonal-competition

Either way, the epsilon appears on the bookings from8th December so the very stena-esque intermediate sailing times are indeed confirmed.

The new slots are 14:15 leaving Dublin and arriving 17:45 and 01:55 leaving Dublin arriving 05:25.

Around the 24th of November the entire Irish Ferries fleet with the exception of the Inishmore will be in Dublin. Over the Christmas period the Inishmore will still be coming to Dublin (as it stands) to provide extra sailings on the Dublin Holyhead route in addition to the Ulysess and Swift. The deployment of Epsilon over the Christmas is not yet confirmed but rumour has it that it will be on the French service with the Oscar Wilde on the Roslare Pembroke route or vice versa.

Tabnabs · 11-11-2013 11:05am

Fuel, specifically for the ship makes that route uneconomical. P&O did it for a summer season a number of years ago and it was well supported by cars and passengers. But the costs just didn't stack up and so they called it a day pretty quickly.

munchkin_utd · 11-11-2013 11:45am

seanmacc wrote: »

<snip>The deployment of Epsilon over the Christmas is not yet confirmed but rumour has it that it will be on the French service with the Oscar Wilde on the Roslare Pembroke route or vice versa.

Do you mean that the sailings to France before Christmas as per the current schedule may be with the Epsilon now instead of Oscar Wilde? Or are they thinking of using the Epsilon (or wilde) to provide a service over christmas which was previously not planned.

I've a place on the (currently) last planned sailing out of France on the 19th December which as of now is still to be the Oscar Wilde.
Not too fussed if its switched to the Epsilon as I was happy enough with the Celtic Link vessel which is very similar to the Epsilon. There wasn't a massive crowd on the equivalent service from france last christmas so the Epsilon could more than cope with it, i.e. multiple restaurants and bars on the Oscar Wilde was a little overkill and a single bar/ restaurant like on the Epsilon would be more than sufficient.

Thanks for the info on the Oscar Wilde covering the Dublin slot. That looked very strange, possibly even a mistake on the system, but it now all makes sense.

seanmacc · 11-11-2013 12:19pm

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Do you mean that the sailings to France before Christmas as per the current schedule may be with the Epsilon now instead of Oscar Wilde? Or are they thinking of using the Epsilon (or wilde) to provide a service over christmas which was previously not planned.

I've a place on the (currently) last planned sailing out of France on the 19th December which as of now is still to be the Oscar Wilde.
Not too fussed if its switched to the Epsilon as I was happy enough with the Celtic Link vessel which is very similar to the Epsilon. There wasn't a massive crowd on the equivalent service from france last christmas so the Epsilon could more than cope with it, i.e. multiple restaurants and bars on the Oscar Wilde was a little overkill and a single bar/ restaurant like on the Epsilon would be more than sufficient.

Thanks for the info on the Oscar Wilde covering the Dublin slot. That looked very strange, possibly even a mistake on the system, but it now all makes sense.

No decisions have been made yet (or at least announced). The Oscar Wilde was going to be covering the Inishmore when it comes to Dublin for Christmas and when the Ulysess goes into drydock. I do believe the Epsilon will be doing a stint in Roslare at some point, its just not been decided yet. The Inishmore will be in Dublin for Christmas, that part has been confirmed.

munchkin_utd · 11-11-2013 4:50pm

Tabnabs wrote: »

Fuel, specifically for the ship makes that route uneconomical. P&O did it for a summer season a number of years ago and it was well supported by cars and passengers. But the costs just didn't stack up and so they called it a day pretty quickly.

never knew that, but after looking into it, you are right that they did and it was once a week at the weekend like is planned with Irish ferries.

And the ultimate irony is that the vessel which did the trip for P+O is the vessel which is now called the Stena Nordica, which is running from Dublin to Holyhead at almost identical times to what the new Irish Ferries ship Epsilon will be running, and its success seems to have been a factor in the acquiring of the Epsilon!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_European_Ambassador

It seems like P+O ran the service all year round whereas Irish ferries wouldn't be doing that as they have a regular service to France from Rosslare anyhow during the winter.

The one thing that Irish ferries has going for a possible seasonal Dublin-Cherbourg route is that they are tapping into an existing customer base of holiday traffic so theres no massive need for an awareness campaign as their existing customers will stumble onto the service when looking to book from Rosslare. A little like how Ryanair or Aer Lingus gets repeat/existing customers booking any new or extra flights they put on that a new comer to Dublin airport wouldnt have the benefit of.
Also if they are just running the extra service at the peak of summer when loadings and prices are high, then it will pay for itsself.
You might pay 4times more for a trip to France in Summer than in Winter so theres a massive difference in profitability/ sustainability when comparing peak and off peak.

zagmund · 12-11-2013 10:38pm

We took the P&O Cherbourg-Dublin route at one point. It was a little surreal - rolling off in Dublin after a long trip like that. I associate long journeys with Rosslare.

We only did it one way though - we bought a campervan in Munich and drove it home. The good old tiger days - booked a one way flight there, did a weeks skiing and picked up the campervan on the way home.

z

munchkin_utd · 15-11-2013 2:54pm

ok, website is now updated and the Epsilon is doing runs to Cherbourg from Rosslare from the 28th December till 11th January, bridging some of the the gap when the Oscar Wilde is away on Irish sea duties.
After that there's no Irish Ferries services till the very end of February when the Oscar Wilde is back in service.
On the positive side, Celtic link starts up again a few days later meaning a link to France one way or another seamlessly over the christmas and new year break.
(Pity this hadnt been announced earlier seeing as I already have a Stena Landbridge ticket booked for after christmas! )

And before christmas, Oscar Wilde is still on the system running the Cherbourg to Rosslare route till 19th December as previously planned.

No sign of the Dublin summer relief service to Cherbourg

munchkin_utd · 25-11-2013 3:20pm

according to Irish Ferries on Facebook the Ferry is nearly ready to head to Dublin, i.e. theres now a shamrock on the funnel!

Interesting to see too that theres the infamous open air car deck on that ship, same as the 2 similar ships ran currently and previously by Celtic Link.

zagmund · 26-11-2013 12:24am

I'm pretty sure the Oscar Wilde went by the window (in Dublin) yesterday.

z

[edit] - yep, it's listed here - http://www.dublinport.ie/information-centre/next-100-departures/
26/11/2013 01:55 OSCAR WILDE

Tabnabs · 26-11-2013 10:15am

And how small she looked when compared to her Dublin - UK rivals.

munchkin_utd · 04-12-2013 2:25pm

just for info, its now on its way just south of Sardinia en route to Gibraltar... and beyond.

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/details/ships/247297100

Rabbitt · 08-12-2013 10:20am

munchkin_utd wrote: »

just for info, its now on its way just south of Sardinia en route to Gibraltar... and beyond.

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/details/ships/247297100

Sounds like the new ship will be no frills.
Would IF not be better of getting a much better ship in ? If people's experience of the new ship are poor it could damage the brand and potential business

munchkin_utd · 11-12-2013 9:23am

after a visit to Rosslare and Cherbourg on route, it seem that the Epsilon is now in place in Dublin ready to commence regular service tomorrow allowing the Oscar Wilde to go back on Rosslare-France duty (and get me home to Ireland for christmas!) after its final Dublin-Holyhead return run this evening.

BenEadir · 11-12-2013 2:26pm

Hi all,

Is this an appropriate thread to ask opinions on when the best time to book a Celtic Link ferry Rosslare to Cherbourg return with a car and 4 passengers going out July 26 and returning Aug 15th is in order to get the best price? Currently showing €991 (including a 4 berth cabin) which is €150 more than I paid last year and only €100 less than Irish Ferries.

Is there a discount code I can use or do I just ring them up and ask for a better price and if that doesn't work just wait for their sale/promotion after Xmas if they have one??

Ben

ScouseMouse · 11-12-2013 2:30pm

BenThere wrote: »

Hi all,

Is this an appropriate thread to ask opinions on when the best time to book a Celtic Link ferry Rosslare to Cherbourg return with a car and 4 passengers going out July 26 and returning Aug 15th is in order to get the best price? Currently showing €991 (including a 4 berth cabin) which is €150 more than I paid last year and only €100 less than Irish Ferries.

Is there a discount code I can use or do I just ring them up and ask for a better price and if that doesn't work just wait for their sale/promotion after Xmas if they have one??

Ben

Join the queue buddy

Check out the other thread on here about the new ferry to france from rosslare. I have the same questions and issues as you. Hopefully something will come up soon. I recall they Celtic link were doing discounts at the holiday world how in the RDS, I believe the next one is January.

cormie · 11-12-2013 3:14pm

BenThere wrote: »

Hi all,

Is this an appropriate thread to ask opinions on when the best time to book a Celtic Link ferry Rosslare to Cherbourg return with a car and 4 passengers going out July 26 and returning Aug 15th is in order to get the best price? Currently showing €991 (including a 4 berth cabin) which is €150 more than I paid last year and only €100 less than Irish Ferries.

Is there a discount code I can use or do I just ring them up and ask for a better price and if that doesn't work just wait for their sale/promotion after Xmas if they have one??

Ben

Where are you getting €991 from? It's 349 outward and 269 return + cabins and is working out around €824 I think from a booking I just tested? Also, if you book by Dec 18th with code FranceC14 you get 10% off, check this I just tested

BenEadir · 11-12-2013 3:26pm

cormie wrote: »

Where are you getting €991 from? It's 349 outward and 269 return + cabins and is working out around €824 I think from a booking I just tested? Also, if you book by Dec 18th with code FranceC14 you get 10% off, check this I just tested

Top man, I'll give that a lash!!

Ben

cormie · 11-12-2013 3:43pm

Good luck

Bring me back a present

BenEadir · 11-12-2013 4:42pm

Done, booked for €811 on Oscar Wilde which is €180 less than on the Celtic Link :eek:

The €53 extra I paid is for a cabin with a window which the missus and kids like.

Cheers again Cormie, I owe you a bottle of Vin de Rouge

Ben

Irish Ferries Add Capacity to Dublin Holyhead Route

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