The glorious 12th

dudara · 16-07-2019 9:00pm

@stop moaning ffs - one day ban for dick*sh comment

@lawred2 - yellow card for same

dudara

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 9:02pm

janfebmar wrote: »

Once you tell me how many signs there are on roads,streets, areas, outside and inside public buildings, hospitals, on vehicles, how many government publications there are, websites etc etc.

You came up with the final figure and now you are going to make what is required fit that bill?

Imreoir2 · 16-07-2019 9:07pm

downcow wrote: »

I made no false claims. I personal listened to their spokesperson say he would expect Irish signs in the shankill whether people wanted them or not. It shouldn’t be difficult to find the quote.

What you have included above is totally reasonable if that is their new position. I would have no complaints about.
It’s just the old problem that you will be able to identify the makeup of the area and hence who feels welcome by the signage

It's not a new position, it was in the discussion document Conradh na Gaeilge published on an Irish Language Act back in 2017.

citytillidie · 16-07-2019 9:17pm

RobMc59 wrote: »

I`m backing common sense Odhinn.Would people in Unionist areas be likely to speak Irish?

Yes they do

https://www.ebm.org.uk/turas/

“Turas” meaning journey or pilgrimage in both Irish Gaelige and Scots Gàidhlig is an Irish language project which aims to connect people from Protestant communities to their own history with the Irish language. Turas is based on the belief that the language belongs to everyone and that it can be a mechanism of reconciliation.

Imreoir2 · 16-07-2019 9:18pm

downcow wrote: »

Irish language group not only confirming the demand for all road signs in Irish even where they are not wanted, but also agreeing 100% with my marking territory concern. She even compares on putting Irish signs where they are wanted as the same as “painting kerbstones”.
These are the false claims I am being accused of. Looks like more stuff needs retracted.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156188117398383&id=91379563382&refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.co.uk%2F&_rdr

That is one persons opinion. Conradh na Gaeilge are not proposing that bilingual street signage should be imposed on anyone. Road signage and signage for public bodies is another issue, they propose that road signage in shared spaces should be bilingual and that signage used by public bodies should be bilingual. There is a difference between street signage on the one hand and road signage or signage from public bodies which are used by everyone. Shared spaces should reflect the whole community, not just Unionism.

I don't know if there are any public bodies based on the Shankill Road, if there are then the proposed act would mean that the body in question would have bilingual signage. But the Shankill Road or the streets in that area would not have bilingual street signs unless the local residents wanted them.

firemansam4 · 16-07-2019 9:18pm

Let's just bring this back on topic here a bit....

OK I'm directing this post at Downcow.

It seems you are trying to make the point that us southerners don't get your culture surrounding the 12th and have got it all wrong.

When we make the point that it is disgusting seeing multiple bonfires burning our national flag on this day, you just say that it is just something that goes on both sides of the community.
You have posted random isolated examples of where this has happened in the past.

But the problem with your argument and something you still have not answered is that on the 12th this burning of our flag happens on a massive scale in NI orchestrated by members of the OO and loyalists.
There is nothing that comes close to comparing to it.

Can you give me one example of where this kind of thing happens in the ROI on the same scale?

It is going to be very hard for anyone down this side of the border to have any respect for your culture while this kind of thing happens every year, I just don't see how you could think any different? Try and put yourself in our shoes and imagine how you would feel about it?

citytillidie · 16-07-2019 9:21pm

firemansam4 wrote: »

Let's just bring this back on topic here a bit....

OK I'm directing this post at Downcow.

It seems you are trying to make the point that us southerners don't get your culture surrounding the 12th and have got it all wrong.

When we make the point that it is disgusting seeing multiple bonfires burning our national flag on this day, you just say that it is just something that goes on both sides of the community.
You have posted random isolated examples of where this has happened in the past.

But the problem with your argument and something you still have not answered is that on the 12th this burning of our flag happens on a massive scale in NI orchestrated by members of the OO and loyalists.
There is nothing that comes close to comparing to it.

Can you give me one example of where this kind of thing happens in the ROI on the same scale?

It is going to be very hard for anyone down this side of the border to have any respect for your culture while this kind of thing happens every year, I just don't see how you could think any different? Try and put yourself in our shoes and imagine how you would feel about it?

Don't forget the Unionist ministers also don't condone the burning of the flags and even attend such bonfires where they are burned

Imreoir2 · 16-07-2019 9:24pm

janfebmar wrote: »

And who would pay the 7 billion pounds necessary to translate and print all signs / government publications, etc etc in to Irish as well? Its not as if many use Irish. There is an Irish language page here on boards.ie, last time I looked it was only getting a few posts a month. Maybe Irish speakers never use the internet.

Where in the name of god did you get that number from?

Irish speakers don't use Irish on Boards because Boards does not welcome the use of Irish. Irish speakers tend to congregate over on Facebook/Twitter and Instagram.

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 10:02pm

citytillidie wrote: »

Don't forget the Unionist ministers also don't condone the burning of the flags and even attend such bonfires where they are burned

The absolute affront and cheek of Arlene Foster stating to the Scots parade that Orangeism is about 'civil and religious liberties'.
She was followed by a speaker who called 'James Connolly a terrorist and shouted No Surrender'.

downcow · 16-07-2019 10:40pm

I think this case, ridiculous as it is, could have serious repercussions for the Irish language plans.
This civil servant, working for the queen, got offended because her photo was up in the workplace and he had to walk past it. He was paid £10,000 out of court and was consulted on what photo he would like in its place.
What does this mean for Irish language signs if they offend people? The law up here says that there should be nothing on display that offends people.
If I work in a bar that has fir on the door will I get £10,000 and will it be removed.
I think it has opened a can of worms
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/civil-servant-queen-portrait-northern-ireland-lee-hegarty-lord-maginnis-nio-a9002086.html%3famp

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 10:46pm

downcow wrote: »

I think this case, ridiculous as it is, could have serious repercussions for the Irish language plans.
This civil servant, working for the queen, got offended because her photo was up in the workplace and he had to walk past it. He was paid £10,000 out of court and was consulted on what photo he would like in its place.
What does this mean for Irish language signs if they offend people? The law up here says that there should be nothing on display that offends people.
If I work in a bar that has fir on the door will I get £10,000 and will it be removed.
I think it has opened a can of worms
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/civil-servant-queen-portrait-northern-ireland-lee-hegarty-lord-maginnis-nio-a9002086.html%3famp

Maybe the result will be that we get rid of everything that offends. Can we start with this, a statue to a man who was instrumental in bringing the gun back into Irish politics?

This is the kind of cul de sac that Unionism keeps disappearing into in their never ending Never Never Never give an inch hideboundness.
I would sacrifice Irish roadsigns if it resulted in a shoot themselves in the foot again stunt like in the linked article.

Imreoir2 · 16-07-2019 10:48pm

downcow wrote: »

I think this case, ridiculous as it is, could have serious repercussions for the Irish language plans.
This civil servant, working for the queen, got offended because her photo was up in the workplace and he had to walk past it. He was paid £10,000 out of court and was consulted on what photo he would like in its place.
What does this mean for Irish language signs if they offend people? The law up here says that there should be nothing on display that offends people.
If I work in a bar that has fir on the door will I get £10,000 and will it be removed.
I think it has opened a can of worms
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/civil-servant-queen-portrait-northern-ireland-lee-hegarty-lord-maginnis-nio-a9002086.html%3famp

On the face of t it seems absurd, I'm sure the person in question did not object too greatly to the face of the queen being on the money they got in their payout. It seems likely to me that there is some nuance that has not been made public than would cast greater light on this incident.

Do you think it would be reasonable for someone to be offended by a sign in Irish at their workplace?

downcow · 16-07-2019 10:49pm

firemansam4 wrote: »

Let's just bring this back on topic here a bit....

OK I'm directing this post at Downcow.

It seems you are trying to make the point that us southerners don't get your culture surrounding the 12th and have got it all wrong.

When we make the point that it is disgusting seeing multiple bonfires burning our national flag on this day, you just say that it is just something that goes on both sides of the community.
You have posted random isolated examples of where this has happened in the past.

But the problem with your argument and something you still have not answered is that on the 12th this burning of our flag happens on a massive scale in NI orchestrated by members of the OO and loyalists.
There is nothing that comes close to comparing to it.

Can you give me one example of where this kind of thing happens in the ROI on the same scale?

It is going to be very hard for anyone down this side of the border to have any respect for your culture while this kind of thing happens every year, I just don't see how you could think any different? Try and put yourself in our shoes and imagine how you would feel about it?

Thank you. I genuinely want to engage and learn.
My problem with your post , and I quote “on the 12th this burning of our flag happens on a massive scale in NI orchestrated by members of the OO”.
Now can you give me one single example of this. I have been to the twelfth every year from age 1 to 54 and I have never seen this happen. Now if it is on a massive scale I guess you will easily educate me with a link or two.

_blaaz · 16-07-2019 10:52pm

downcow wrote: »

Thank you. I genuinely want to engage and learn.
My problem with your post , and I quote “on the 12th this burning of our flag happens on a massive scale in NI orchestrated by members of the OO”.
Now can you give me one single example of this. I have been to the twelfth every year from age 1 to 54 and I have never seen this happen. Now if it is on a massive scale I guess you will easily educate me with a link or two.

Yous trying to.claim.that no tricoulers are burnt on july 11th bonfires and want evidence of it occuring

Your fooling noone mate,even orange order members i knpw dont trt defend it....no mind try drag people down rabbithole of saying it deosnt happen

Your gas craic

downcow · 16-07-2019 10:52pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Maybe the result will be that we get rid of everything that offends. Can we start with this, a statue to a man who was instrumental in bringing the gun back into Irish politics?

This is the kind of cul de sac that Unionism keeps disappearing into in their never ending Never Never Never give an inch hideboundness.
I would sacrifice Irish roadsigns if it resulted in a shoot themselves in the foot again stunt like in the linked article.

If you are asking honestly. Yes I would certainly forgo that statue if it meant I wouldn’t have my local town reminding me on every corner that the nationalists are in charge

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 11:00pm

downcow wrote: »

If you are asking honestly. Yes I would certainly forgo that statue if it meant I wouldn’t have my local town reminding me on every corner that the nationalists are in charge

And finally we have drilled down to the petty suprematist nonsense that this objection revolves around. 'Themums might seem to be in charge'. i.e. the cul de sac Unionism cannot resist turning into.

You do know what an equal society involves?

Pedro K · 16-07-2019 11:01pm

downcow wrote: »

If you are asking honestly. Yes I would certainly forgo that statue if it meant I wouldn’t have my local town reminding me on every corner that the nationalists are in charge

What if the signs had both English and Irish on them?

janfebmar · 16-07-2019 11:02pm

downcow wrote: »

I think this case, ridiculous as it is, could have serious repercussions for the Irish language plans.
This civil servant, working for the queen, got offended because her photo was up in the workplace and he had to walk past it. He was paid £10,000 out of court and was consulted on what photo he would like in its place.
What does this mean for Irish language signs if they offend people? The law up here says that there should be nothing on display that offends people.
If I work in a bar that has fir on the door will I get £10,000 and will it be removed.
I think it has opened a can of worms
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/civil-servant-queen-portrait-northern-ireland-lee-hegarty-lord-maginnis-nio-a9002086.html%3famp

I wonder if someone here in the 26 counties complained of some religous thing in a public building would the complainant get the euro equivalent of £10,000.

downcow · 16-07-2019 11:03pm

_blaaz wrote: »

Yous trying to.claim.that no tricoulers are burnt on july 11th bonfires and want evidence of it occuring

Your fooling noone mate,even orange order members i knpw dont trt defend it....no mind try drag people down rabbithole of saying it deosnt happen

Your gas craic

I am pointing out that the twelfth is a very different animal than 11th night bonfires.
Don’t be disingenuous be linking all loyalist culture as one.
The twelfth is grannies kids youths all together in amazing harmony with ice cream bands flags and fun.
The 11th night Many fires are lit at midnight after the pubs empty. The crack is great but it is unquestionably boisterous. Flutes drums carryouts dancing singing big fire
The two things are like day and night
11th night is a big youth extravaganza and all the issues and positives that go with that.
On a minority of fires they burn all the stuff that they think represents those who want to exterminate their culture. Wrong but understandable.
If the OO was gone tomorrow the 12th would disappear but the 11th night would not be in the slightest effected. Indeed I think it would mushroom to fill the vacuum

downcow · 16-07-2019 11:08pm

Imreoir2 wrote: »

On the face of t it seems absurd, I'm sure the person in question did not object too greatly to the face of the queen being on the money they got in their payout. It seems likely to me that there is some nuance that has not been made public than would cast greater light on this incident.

Do you think it would be reasonable for someone to be offended by a sign in Irish at their workplace?

Fair play imreoir. You may be right.
That’s a difficult question. You may not like my answer but if I went in to McDonald’s and they had their toilet signs in Irish then I would probably just use kfc in the future.
Having said that, I would love to see a truly shared society where orange and Irish culture were equally welcome. Ie if McDonald’s put up some stuff to celebrate the 12th then I would completely support them to have Irish signs up.

janfebmar · 16-07-2019 11:08pm

downcow wrote: »

I am pointing out that the twelfth is a very different animal than 11th night bonfires.
Don’t be disingenuous be linking all loyalist culture as one.
The twelfth is grannies kids youths all together in amazing harmony with ice cream bands flags and fun.
The 11th night Many fires are lit at midnight after the pubs empty. The crack is great but it is unquestionably boisterous. Flutes drums carryouts dancing singing big fire
The two things are like day and night
11th night is a big youth extravaganza and all the issues and positives that go with that.
On a minority of fires they burn all the stuff that they think represents those who want to exterminate their culture. Wrong but understandable.

Talking of flag burning, I remember seeing pictures of union flags being burnt at anti-internment anniversary bonfires ( in Derry I think ) and do not forget one Charles Haughey ( who some decades later became our Taoiseach ) infamously burnt a Union Jack back in 1945 in Dublin.

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 11:08pm

downcow wrote: »

I am pointing out that the twelfth is a very different animal than 11th night bonfires.
Don’t be disingenuous be linking all loyalist culture as one.
The twelfth is grannies kids youths all together in amazing harmony with ice cream bands flags and fun.
The 11th night Many fires are lit at midnight after the pubs empty. The crack is great but it is unquestionably boisterous. Flutes drums carryouts dancing singing big fire
The two things are like day and night
11th night is a big youth extravaganza and all the issues and positives that go with that.
On a minority of fires they burn all the stuff that they think represents those who want to exterminate their culture. Wrong but understandable.
If the OO was one tomorrow the 12th would disappear but the 11th night would not be in the slightest effected. Indeed I think it would mushroom to fill the vacuum

11th night is as much a part of the OO season of events as the 12th is.

The tradition is believed to have started to commemorate the lighting of fires on hilltops in Antrim and Down that helped Williamite forces navigate through the Belfast Lough at night during the Williamite Wars in Ireland.

Junkyard Tom · 16-07-2019 11:09pm

downcow wrote: »

This civil servant, working for the queen,

Working for the the Queen? :pac:

got offended because her photo was up in the workplace and he had to walk past it.

Fair play to the guy.

There are very strict employment laws in the north that were designed to help dismantle the sectarianism ingrained in the environment unionists created for themselves.

The workplace must remain a neutral place free from tribal symbolism and rightly so. I'd imagine some 'patriot' decided to hang portraits of Mrs Windsor around the gaff to 'piss on the lampposts', as it were.

No more of that nonsense downcow. Those days are over.

_blaaz · 16-07-2019 11:09pm

downcow wrote: »

I am pointing out that the twelfth is a very different animal than 11th night bonfires.
Don’t be disingenuous be linking all loyalist culture as one.

It literally is,and more i read of your posts the more im.near certain yous arent what.you claim to be....i know quite a wide section of unionist commuinty and none have the contempt of me to try and tell outright utter lies to me like the rest of this post

The twelfth is grannies kids youths all together in amazing harmony with ice cream bands flags and fun.
The 11th night Many fires are lit at midnight after the pubs empty. The crack is great but it is unquestionably boisterous. Flutes drums carryouts dancing singing big fire
The two things are like day and night
11th night is a big youth extravaganza and all the issues and positives that go with that.
On a minority of fires they burn all the stuff that they think represents those who want to exterminate their culture. Wrong but understandable.
If the OO was one tomorrow the 12th would disappear but the 11th night would not be in the slightest effected. Indeed I think it would mushroom to fill the vacuum

Bonfires are light well before 12 o clock....yous are a joke,cant even lie realisitically.......like i said i know a wide variety from ex soldiers to former paramilitaries and fair bit inbetween of unionists,from blackest of prods to complete athesits....one thing shines through is none would put up with bull/chancers representing them that yous are pedeling here

downcow · 16-07-2019 11:12pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

11th night is as much a part of the OO season of events as the 12th is.

It might be for you francie but most people who go to the twelfth will never attend a bonfire after the pas age 20

downcow · 16-07-2019 11:14pm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Working for the the Queen? :pac:

Fair play to the guy.

There are very strict employment laws in the north that were designed to help dismantle the sectarianism ingrained in the environment unionists created for themselves.

The workplace must remain a neutral place free from tribal symbolism and rightly so. I'd imagine some 'patriot' decided to hang portraits of Mrs Windsor around the gaff to 'piss on the lampposts', as it were.

No more of that nonsense downcow. Those days are over.

So do you think Irish should be kept out of the workplace also? Or is this another case of , if it offends my ones

Imreoir2 · 16-07-2019 11:15pm

downcow wrote: »

Fair play imreoir. You may be right.
That’s a difficult question. You may not like my answer but if I went in to McDonald’s and they had their toilet signs in Irish then I would probably just use kfc in the future.
Having said that, I would love to see a truly shared society where orange and Irish culture were equally welcome. Ie if McDonald’s put up some stuff to celebrate the 12th then I would completely support them to have Irish signs up.

I can fully support the idea of there been a difference between Civic Unionsm celebrating the 12th in a peaceful way and the hooliganism that burns flags. I have no problem with McDonalds having an orange milkshake for the 12th, for example, like they have a green milkshake down here for Paddy's day.

Hopefully you can see the difference between Irish speakers wanting their language to be part of a shared society and a scumbag shouting "Tiocfaidh ár lá".

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 11:15pm

downcow wrote: »

It might be for you francie but most people who go to the twelfth will never attend a bonfire after the pas age 20

So the OO and Unionist politicians can wash their hands off it? Rubbish.

firemansam4 · 16-07-2019 11:15pm

downcow wrote:

Thank you. I genuinely want to engage and learn. My problem with your post , and I quote â€œon the 12th this burning of our flag happens on a massive scale in NI orchestrated by members of the OOâ€. Now can you give me one single example of this. I have been to the twelfth every year from age 1 to 54 and I have never seen this happen. Now if it is on a massive scale I guess you will easily educate me with a link or two.

OK so you are splitting hairs on the point, maybe these fires are actually lit on the 11th but does that really matter? It is all still associated with the same celebrations of your culture.

Now can you please tell me why you think we should find this acceptable this side of the border? And tell me is there any equivalents of this showing of hate on a massive scale here in ROI?

FrancieBrady · 16-07-2019 11:17pm

downcow wrote: »

So do you think Irish should be kept out of the workplace also? Or is this another case of , if it offends my ones

The language of the island telling you themuns are in charge would not be a legitimate cause for complaint. You would need counselling help for that.

The glorious 12th

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