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The case for NOT supporting local business

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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 396 ✭✭Open the Pubs


    salonfire wrote: »
    The OP's post is typical of someone in the public sector.

    When we are subjected to their propaganda campaigns for pay increases, all we hear the importance of setting a benchmark to 'avoid a race to the bottom' , to support local towns and villages, criticizing big business that refuse to recognize unions.

    However when it comes to their spending, they are first online to save a euro with Amazon or first to jump on a Ryanair flight. Never a 2nd thought given to local towns or workers if it saves them a euro.
    Agreed.


  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    Vieira82 wrote: »
    This example is pure and simple bull****. You cannot buy from the factory. You are buying from someone that bought from the factory their excess stock. Those shoes are 100% not made in Europe and had a cost of probably a couple of Euros. I know this because I work with shoe factories from around Europe.

    You are just blatantly lying ................................

    So if you're buying European or Irish (which I know you aren't) you are being ripped off.

    If you're buying from a "factory" in a third world country you're being even more ripped off.

    So yes you're just "waffling" about stuff you have no knowledge about :D


    You are talking through your hoop, Northampton shoe manufacturers have their own factoy shops. All of the shoes I am referring to are hand made in England.

    What you claim to know to be true is your own blinkered view and experience of retail......... I have bought several pair of hand made in England shoes from the manufacturers factory stores based in Northampton, England.

    Vieira82 wrote: »
    This example is pure and simple bull****

    It's fact
    Vieira82 wrote: »
    You cannot buy from the factory.

    Yes, yes I can
    Vieira82 wrote: »
    You are buying from someone that bought from the factory their excess stock.

    No, no I'm not
    Vieira82 wrote: »
    Those shoes are 100% not made in Europe

    Made in England........... Barker, Joseph Cheaney, Loake 1880
    Vieira82 wrote: »
    and had a cost of probably a couple of Euros. I know this because I work with shoe factories from around Europe.

    You don't seem to know anything about made in England shoes
    Vieira82 wrote: »
    You are just blatantly lying

    No, you are blateantly talking sh1t about things you know nothing about
    Vieira82 wrote: »
    So if you're buying European or Irish (which I know you aren't) you are being ripped off.

    If you're buying from a "factory" in a third world country you're being even more ripped off.

    I'm buying hand made in England shoes from the factory shops :)
    Vieira82 wrote: »
    So yes you're just "waffling" about stuff you have no knowledge about :D

    lol, you need a humongous slice of humble pie

    Vieira82 wrote: »
    A cost of an European made pair of shoes is around 39€ add to that a retail margin of x3 a comfortable margin and you get a pair of high quality brogues for 120€

    I don't buy such brogues............ you won't get goodyear welted stuff for that price unless it's made in India. the shoes you describe aren't high quality, they are disposable crap that are in sh1t after a season of wearing them.

    Anyway, I'll not wait for an apology for the claim that I was lying.

    these aren't made in Europe no?
    https://www.cheaney.co.uk/cheaney-berkeley-wholecut-oxford-in-black-calf-leather-p1
    cheaney-berkeley-wholecut-oxford-in-black-calf-leather-p1-1119_medium.jpg

    Cheaney don't have a factory shop ?

    WELCOME TO THE CHEANEY OUTLET
    Here you will find what remains of our end of season & discontinued stock. Limited size availability. To quickly search for what we have available use the "Department" filter from the left hand menu to get started

    https://www.cheaney.co.uk/outlet-c89

    Will I find the links for Barker, Lobb, Crocket & Jones, Loake 1880 range, Church etc for you?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    I dislike businesses relying on "shop local" to keep them in business, they need to do more than that.

    I do a mix of online, local and big chain shopping.

    Some items you really need to buy online. Pc components and accessories are way over-priced in the likes of Curry's for instance with a poor selection. Books are another thing - I do be shocked at the prices differences between the likes of Easons and independent retailers in comparison to the Book Depository, which is where I buy 90% of my books. Sometimes the difference can be around 50%.

    Some local/Irish retailers are great though. We like hot sauce in this house and a few months back I put in an order with Mic's Chilli, based in Wicklow. His prices are at the top end of what I would be willing to spend but the quality is fantastic. In my first order they threw in a free bottle of sweet chilli sauce. Recently they had a 30% off sale so I ordered a few more bottles. Last time I thought the freebie might be for my first order but second time around they gave me a free hot sauce. Granted these are probably items that are not shifting but fair play to them and if they don't increase their prices I'll continue to buy from them.

    The biggest and most expensive item I ever bought online was a ride-on lawnmower from Italy (GGP in Italy manufacture a lot of the big brands that are sold in Ireland). Delivery was €20 and I saved about €500 in comparison to buying in Ireland. Granted, some assembly was required (about 2 hours I would say taking things slowly) but it was worth it.

    Another shout-out would be to our local village butcher. No more expensive than the big chains and the quality is great. When we switched from Lidl "premium" mince to his we couldn't get over the difference, very noticeable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,214 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I'm probably the person/demographic that the OP hates the most.
    Myself and the mrs both work in fintech for MNCs based here.
    We do most all our shopping online where possible. I have aspergers so I hate interacting with people. Therefore clicking "buy" on amazon is a lot easier than walking into mcilhenneys. Even if Amazon (or other online source) were slightly more expensive I'd pay for the privilege.

    I even bought my last car (tesla) online direct from the manufacturer. I could have had it delivered to my door but I opted to go and collect for the adventure/photo ops.


    This is the way the world is going. Online. The days are gone of being price gouged in the local village by the shopkeeper, hardware store owner, butcher etc who'd smile at you as you come in, shake your hand at mass, donate to the lads/ladies local gaa team, but rip you off by charging 50-75+% margin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 44,876 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    I try to buy in my local village. Mainly because I want to still exist in 15 years. I want to be able to go to the local cafe for a hot chocolate, or to the local garage for a fill up, or restaurant for a meal. I buy a few pieces for the house or presents for family in a local shop as well - as I want the area it is in ( a nice little shop/cafe/garden ) to be vibrent for years to come.

    If there are items I can buy local, and easily, I generally will.

    On top of that I buy a lot of stuff online - pet foods, electrical and entertainment items etc.

    I shop local, when I do, because I want to contribute to the society and community I have chosen to live in. I want places to go, I don't want a run down local village with boarded up shops etc. That would make where I live a worse place to live.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,029 ✭✭✭um7y1h83ge06nx


    Shop local depends on how local you define it to be. I live about 2km from a small village and a 12 minute drive from a large suburb of Limerick city. If I just focus on the businesses in the village

    New cafe - fantastic to have it here, used be a pub/restaurant (which we supported) before that went under. Pity with the Covid restrictions but will aim to try this out.

    Spar Shop/Petrol Station - only use this if I'm stuck for diesel or essentials like milk. Not a huge stock and typical small shop prices. Popped in there once as we were out of peppers and needed some for what we were about to cook, they didn't have any. We prefer doing big shops in the Lidl 12 minutes away.

    Butcher - Fantastic! As I mentioned earlier, no more expensive than the big chains and the quality is much, much better. Love their smokey homemade burgers and they always have good offers. Buy the majority of our meat here.

    Post Office - very handy to have and would use this as my main post office. The post office is part of the post mistresses house and parcels that cannot be delivered are kept in her garage until they are collected. :)

    Chipper - Only used it once and really was not impressed. Poor quality and standard enough prices.

    Small hardware shop - only used it once or twice, not much stock. Would use the co-op shop in the next town or the big builder providers in the city.

    Pharmacy - Used it a few times but when I was working in the office it was easier to buy close to there instead. Working from home now I will use this instead if I need something.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,981 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Augeo wrote: »
    It's only your only choice if you have no interest whatsoever in bettering yourself, learning new skills or earning more money. To resign yourself to working 40+ years in an entry level retail job requires a satisfaction with entry level pay and benefits for 40+ years ......... that's a decision, pure and simple.

    This misses the point. Even if the individual does upskill and upgrade, the minimum-wage job is still there, for the people who clean our toilets and our offices, mind our children and our parents and more.

    These are the people who will never have a hope of owning a property in Ireland and will live precarious lives.
    ELM327 wrote: »
    I'm probably the person/demographic that the OP hates the most.
    Myself and the mrs both work in fintech for MNCs based here.
    We do most all our shopping online where possible. I have aspergers so I hate interacting with people. Therefore clicking "buy" on amazon is a lot easier than walking into mcilhenneys. Even if Amazon (or other online source) were slightly more expensive I'd pay for the privilege.
    There are other places to buy online other than Amazon. Do you really want to make Bezos richer with every purchase, while he denies basic rights to workers in US and UK?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,214 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    This misses the point. Even if the individual does upskill and upgrade, the minimum-wage job is still there, for the people who clean our toilets and our offices, mind our children and our parents and more.

    These are the people who will never have a hope of owning a property in Ireland and will live precarious lives.


    There are other places to buy online other than Amazon. Do you really want to make Bezos richer with every purchase, while he denies basic rights to workers in US and UK?


    To be honest I dont use amazon that much. I dont even have prime, so I use herself's account if I want to buy anything. I was using amazon as a proxy for online shopping in general.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    I buy groceries local in so far as I shop in local Tesco and nearby supervalu with quick trip to Aldi once a week for couple of small items.
    We buy our meat in butchers, have done so for a couple of decades.
    Coal from the local Co op store and that's about it. Virtually everything else is online simply because I'm fed up going from shop to shop for items they never seem to have, virus or no virus.

    Tesco isn't local.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,214 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    McGaggs wrote: »
    Tesco isn't local.
    Do the people that work there commute from mars or something?


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  • Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    This misses the point. Even if the individual does upskill and upgrade, the minimum-wage job is still there, for the people who clean our toilets and our offices, mind our children and our parents and more.

    These are the people who will never have a hope of owning a property in Ireland and will live precarious lives..........

    Yes, the entry level job is still there for someone to get entry level experience before they move on.

    We all did entry level jobs, well most of us did anyway.

    We are all living precarious lives.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 164 ✭✭Jimson


    Wherever I get the best deal I shop.

    I'm not going to pay 250 euro for an item in DID when I can get the same item on Amazon for 180.

    Same with clothes, way cheaper online and a much larger selection than whats in the stores. The return policy on clothes is excellent now wherever you buy them online.

    The only thing I really shop local is independent butchers for meat and not the supermarkets. Support the local pub as well of course.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,214 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Augeo wrote: »
    Yes, the entry level job is still there for someone to get entry level experience before they move on.

    We all did entry level jobs, well most of us did anyway.

    We are all living precarious lives.
    +1 I worked in mcdonalds years ago. We all start out in those types of jobs but it's not meant to be a career.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,377 ✭✭✭NSAman


    If you don’t shop local, please DO NOT go looking for sponsorship/prizes for your raffle/sports club/drama group/ local initiative. Go to where you purchase..I.e. ask amazon / Etsy/etc....


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,357 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    ELM327 wrote: »
    +1 I worked in mcdonalds years ago. We all start out in those types of jobs but it's not meant to be a career.

    This is not true for everyone....lots of people working 'entry level jobs' all their lives and/or late in live for many reasons.
    Not everyone can progress through the jobs/pay scales and sometimes it's a personal choice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,214 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Later in life I can accept. I may do similar for a few hours if I'm bored living off passive income at that point.

    But there's no reason anyone should be tied to working in min wage jobs as a career in a country where education is free to those who need it and even subsidized


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    Darc19 wrote: »
    It's not as simple as that.

    Tesco is a classic example.

    They buy over €300m of irish products for their UK stores every year. Having an operation here can pinpoint some items that will sell well in the uk.

    Then you look at the beneficial owners

    Tesco = pension funds = hundreds of thousands of people

    Dunnes = one ultra rich family.

    Good point. I have pension funds in Tesco. I believe Dunnes are an unlimited company and don't even file accounts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,390 ✭✭✭Bowlardo


    yes lets spend all out money on amazon who don't pay a red rex in tax in the great scheme of things.
    Where possible you should shop local. end of story. more tax in the economy and a directly around the community.
    Where do you thinks your kids are going to work for their summer jobs?
    local SMEs that's where
    Who do you think is going to paying the dole for the people in these shops if the closed down.

    OP did paint a good picture of shops that are stuck in a time warp and if they are making no effort to move with the time then they probably do deserve to die a death


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,628 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    ELM327 wrote: »
    Do the people that work there commute from mars or something?

    I'm arguing against Tesco being chosen over Aldi and Lidl because they're "local". They both use Irish suppliers, but the profits leave the country.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    NSAman wrote: »
    If you don’t shop local, please DO NOT go looking for sponsorship/prizes for your raffle/sports club/drama group/ local initiative. Go to where you purchase..I.e. ask amazon / Etsy/etc....

    Amazon will actually donate to the charity of your choice if you use smile.amazon.com. I have mine going to the Movember org.

    I do check Irish retailers online to see if they have a similar price before buying from Amazon, usually they don't.

    I'd happily pay a premium to shop online. Saves me time and effort going searching through shops.

    Many Irish business have lost my custom due to not answering emails or not having a functioning website.

    And delivery charges, don't know why an Irish retailer needs to charge €10 to post a game when others do it for free.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Augeo wrote:
    It's only your only choice if you have no interest whatsoever in bettering yourself, learning new skills or earning more money. To resign yourself to working 40+ years in an entry level retail job requires a satisfaction with entry level pay and benefits for 40+ years ......... that's a decision, pure and simple.

    What a crook of sh1t, we don't live in a world of equal opportunities, we don’t live in a world of equal abilities. our educational and training systems have failed many, and continue to do so, you will find many of these individuals stuck in low paid jobs, long term unemployment, within our prison systems, in our graveyards and some bodies have never been seen again. How dare you, blame these individuals for the outcome of their lives. you ll actually find in many cases, opportunities in life come from chosing the correct date of birth and parents, so chose wisely!


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    What a crook of sh1t, we don't live in a world of equal opportunities, we don’t live in a world of equal abilities. our educational and training systems have failed many, and continue to do so, you will find many of these individuals stuck in low paid jobs, long term unemployment, within our prison systems, in our graveyards and some bodies have never been seen again. How dare you, blame these individuals for the outcome of their lives. you ll actually find in many cases, opportunities in life come from chosing the correct date of birth and parents, so chose wisely!


    I don't believe anyone was denied an education by circumstance in this country. Anyone unemployed for 9+ months can go to 3rd level institutions and keep their dole and HAP. The only thing denying people of an education in this country is not putting in the effort or other personal choices.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,703 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    GarIT wrote:
    I don't believe anyone was denied an education by circumstance in this country. Anyone unemployed for 9+ months can go to 3rd level institutions and keep their dole and HAP. The only thing denying people of an education in this country is not putting in the effort or other personal choices.

    Again, what a crook of sh1t, our educational and training systems fail people, fails to address and even exasperates their underlining conditions and disorders of which are simply not compatible with the rote learning system, a glorified memory test!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭smellyoldboot


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    What a crook of sh1t, we don't live in a world of equal opportunities, we don’t live in a world of equal abilities. our educational and training systems have failed many, and continue to do so, you will find many of these individuals stuck in low paid jobs, long term unemployment, within our prison systems, in our graveyards and some bodies have never been seen again. How dare you, blame these individuals for the outcome of their lives. you ll actually find in many cases, opportunities in life come from chosing the correct date of birth and parents, so chose wisely!

    Self wallowing touchy feely ****e in fairness. By my own background, address and family background I was a prime candidate for a life of petty crime (or worse) drug abuse or eternal low income employment. But , albeit a little later in life than I should have, I got off my arse and fixed it. Bad choices are still choices that were made.

    Endlessly feeling sorry for yourself and blaming the system, society or luck is a choice. Staying put in a poorly paid role you know is going nowhere is a choice. There are precious few nations on this earth that offer the same opportunities to drag oneself out of a rut and change your situation as this one. For all our problems we do that well. But nobody will drop it in your lap. You have to go and do it yourself. If you don't want to, or invent reasons as to why you can't, guess what, that's a choice too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,377 ✭✭✭NSAman


    GarIT wrote: »
    Amazon will actually donate to the charity of your choice if you use smile.amazon.com. I have mine going to the Movember org.

    All good and fine, but will Amazon support the local GAA Club? The local Drama Club? Etc...etc..

    Most local businesses get hit up for requests MULTIPLE times a week for such things.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,378 ✭✭✭RocketRaccoon


    My daughter wants a phone for Christmas. A local shop is selling it for €265, amazon have it for €140.

    What sort of nut job is going to support local in a situation like this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    NSAman wrote: »
    All good and fine, but will Amazon support the local GAA Club? The local Drama Club? Etc...etc..

    Most local businesses get hit up for requests MULTIPLE times a week for such things.

    Yea they will no problem. You just have to register with them as a charity and then ask shoppers to select you as their chosen charity.

    And personally I'm sort of against businesses giving to charity. I'd rather they lower prices than fund the GAA club.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,671 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Jimson wrote: »
    I agree somewhat what your saying but not everyone is not cut out for college or a desk job. Some people just don't have the I.Q for it and will fail miserably whatever course they try. I got 420 studying two months before the leaving cert. Another person who studied three years non stop might never get that or even close to it.They would probably fail no matter how much they studied doing a higher level subject instead of a pass subject.

    Everyone has their different smarts. I think though it is a bit of laziness not at least pursuing an apprenticeship. I am not saying apprenticeships are easy whatsoever but a lot of people are better with their hands. I know id probably last six months in an apprenticeship myself and be fired. I work in IT and get 43K a tear while fully qualified people with a trade are getting way more.

    You need to find what your good at and stick to it.

    Yeah I wasn't necessarily saying everyone is capable of college, just refuting that people are denied college based on who their parents are.

    And agree with the other points, there are many non academic ways to move on from a minimum wage job.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,821 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    When did Irish people start calling shops "stores"?




    *Dunnes aside.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,823 ✭✭✭tea and coffee


    My daughter wants a phone for Christmas. A local shop is selling it for €265, amazon have it for €140.

    What sort of nut job is going to support local in a situation like this?

    I'm not sure many people are saying that. There obviously is some market there for someone to sell it at that price.
    But if the option is to buy on Amazon or buy Irish for a very similar price, then I think it is nice to buy from a (small/er) Irish business, and in many cases that seems to be possible.
    Particularly now when small businesses that have to be shut, They simply can't compete with giants like Amazon coming up to Christmas as they're flipping well having to shut. For that reason alone, I'd like to use them- while also being pragmatic on price obvs. To do both is actually possible!


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