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Refused job seekers allowance.

2»

Comments

  • #32
    cee_jay
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,920 Mod ✭✭✭✭cee_jay


    StoveFan from your posts, you were not refused because you were not habitually resident. You were refused as you failed to show your means do not exceed the limit. This is most likely because you did not demonstrate how you were living and supporting yourself. You state you have €100 in a bank account, you are not receiving supplementary welfare allowance, and your grandparents are in receipt of a small pension from the UK that barely covers their means. The question around your claim is how you have been living with no visible means of income. If you could not show that to the Social Welfare Inspector your claim can be disallowed for this. You have lost your appeal - you can make another claim in the morning if you like. That doesn't mean you will get paid, just that you can make a claim. This disallowance is nothing to do with you being from the UK.


  • #33
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    cee_jay wrote: »
    StoveFan from your posts, you were not refused because you were not habitually resident. You were refused as you failed to show your means do not exceed the limit. This is most likely because you did not demonstrate how you were living and supporting yourself. You state you have €100 in a bank account, you are not receiving supplementary welfare allowance, and your grandparents are in receipt of a small pension from the UK that barely covers their means. The question around your claim is how you have been living with no visible means of income. If you could not show that to the Social Welfare Inspector your claim can be disallowed for this. You have lost your appeal - you can make another claim in the morning if you like. That doesn't mean you will get paid, just that you can make a claim. This disallowance is nothing to do with you being from the UK.

    Hi:)
    Habitual residency hasn't been an issue for my appeal but was the reason along with many others when I initially tried to claim JSA, hence the reason of the appeal.
    When I sent the appeal my Grandparents said they had been supporting me and have done so from the age of 10 when they brought us up. My natural parents were useless and my new stepfather was abusive, (strangling us etc). I have being living with my Grandparents from the age of 10 and still do. My Grandparents get the fuel allowance and telephone and electric discount and there income is enough to support us but they don't have enough income to pay for private healthcare for me.
    They pay for everything for me. They are my immediate family. My father has since died of cancer and I haven't seen or spoken to my mother since I left at the age of 10.
    The full family history was all written in a signed letter by them and me including the reasons why me and my sister lived with my new guardian grandparents.
    I from the age of 16 to now 33 have been renovating our family home, but not making huge profits. I did this work for free as a thank you for there excellent upbringing and when I sent my appeal, I sent mine and my Grandparents bank statements and their income and bank accounts. UK and Ireland.
    What are the limits. How else can I prove means other than to show bank account statements? I think they think I have a big stash of money in offshore accounts which I dont! Only wish I did. I have declared everything truthfully and always believe in being honest.

    If they just said I can't claim anything because I haven't worked here or under section xxx of, then I could accept that but when they state I never showed how I had been supporting myself when I had written the full history what more can you do.

    I'm giving up. Easier to head back than to try to fight for months.






    I think the worst things that need adressing in Ireland is.

    The length of time it takes for them to make a decision.
    In my case nobody sat down with me and explained how the process worked or what I may be entitled to.
    I suggested JSA when asked.
    I was 10 weeks into my appeal and only when I asked can I claim anything in the meantime SWA was suggested, but it's at the discretion and I needed to fill out the forms again.
    They should be able to have a central database computer system and not many different departments that don't know about your case as thats another department.
    You should only need to fill out the forms once as all the departments are one or all have your details on computer.

    Don't charge for the phone call to find out about your claim to Dublin. How do people manage in a phone box or on a mobile. My own experience was generally in a que for 15 minutes. It would be nice if they said your no 8 in line etc.
    I think the biggest thing of all though is the time taken for a decision, what do you live on while your waiting for SWA to be approved.
    I think they could double the staff to deal with claims/appeals. Give people employment.

    Have a charter and timeframe of their responsibilities to you. Ie 3 weeks max for a decision etc.

    I can't comment on the process in the UK as I have never claimed, but I'm sure you wouldn't have to wait 5 months for a final decision.



    Stove Fan:)


  • #34
    keredern
    Registered Users Posts: 654 ✭✭✭keredern


    OP It's extremely difficult for any of us here on Boards to know exactly the reason why your claim & appeal failed.

    None of us have access to all of the details of your case, which does seem quite complex.

    Cee_jay is absolutely correct regarding the issue of means...where an applicant's means are not fully disclosed, or in the opinion of the Deciding Officer & Appeals Officer not fully disclosed, then a disallowance on the basis of means will follow.

    It does seem that the issue of HRC arose also, but the main stumbling block appears to be around how you have supported yourself.

    If there is no obvious / visible means of support relating to a claimant's case, then questions arise & a refusal is likely.

    I understand you did your best to fully inform the DSP.

    In this regard perhaps you should once more gather up all the facts & documents relating to your situation & make a new claim.

    I would also visit your local Community Welfare Service for assistance, financial & advisory!

    Failing that you may ask the Ombudsman to look at your case.:)


  • #35
    boxtysugarbulb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭boxtysugarbulb


    Stove Fan, if you and your grandparents don't manage to move back quickly, then see if they can top up their UK pension to the Irish level with a non-contributory pension. It all depends on the exchange rate of the pound to euro, but it's worth a try.

    Best of Luck :)


  • #36
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    boxtysugarbulb wrote: »
    Stove Fan, if you and your grandparents don't manage to move back quickly, then see if they can top up their UK pension to the Irish level with a non-contributory pension. It all depends on the exchange rate of the pound to euro, but it's worth a try.

    Best of Luck :)

    Hi thanks:)

    My Grandparents did ask but it seemed that it was a no as they never contributed/worked here, as they paid/worked in the uk.

    Thanks anyway.

    Stove Fan:)


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  • #37
    boxtysugarbulb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭boxtysugarbulb


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    Hi thanks:)

    My Grandparents did ask but it seemed that it was a no as they never contributed/worked here, as they paid/worked in the uk.

    Thanks anyway.

    Stove Fan:)
    It doesn't matter that they didn't work here SF, that's why it's called a 'non-contributory' pension :)

    See here for basic details: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/older_and_retired_people/state_pension_non_contributory.html

    They won't be entitled to a full pension of course, but they can get the top-up difference between their UK pension and the Irish pension. As it's means tested, their UK pension will first be converted into euros to see if it's below the threshold for qualification for the non-contributory pension. That's why the pound/euro conversion rate is so crucial.

    I filled in the forms for someone in the same position as your grandparents a few years back, and they got the NC-pension to top up their UK pension. It wasn't a fortune, but it all helps - plus there's an extra €10 per week for those aged 80+, regardless of the size of the top-up itself.

    As the conversion rate is crucial to the means test calculation, you're more likely to qualify when the euro is stronger. Even if they don't qualify at today's conversion rate, keep it in mind for the future should they decide to stay in Ireland. They might qualify at a later date if the euro gets stronger, meaning they'd have less euros per pound, and therefore less to live on, making the means test more likely to be favourable.

    Don't take anyone's word for it over the phone or likewise; send off the forms and get a written response. You've nothing to lose.

    HTH :)


  • #38
    Stove Fan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,081 ✭✭✭Stove Fan


    boxtysugarbulb wrote: »
    It doesn't matter that they didn't work here SF, that's why it's called a 'non-contributory' pension :)

    See here for basic details: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/older_and_retired_people/state_pension_non_contributory.html

    They won't be entitled to a full pension of course, but they can get the top-up difference between their UK pension and the Irish pension. As it's means tested, their UK pension will first be converted into euros to see if it's below the threshold for qualification for the non-contributory pension. That's why the pound/euro conversion rate is so crucial.

    I filled in the forms for someone in the same position as your grandparents a few years back, and they got the NC-pension to top up their UK pension. It wasn't a fortune, but it all helps - plus there's an extra €10 per week for those aged 80+, regardless of the size of the top-up itself.

    As the conversion rate is crucial to the means test calculation, you're more likely to qualify when the euro is stronger. Even if they don't qualify at today's conversion rate, keep it in mind for the future should they decide to stay in Ireland. They might qualify at a later date if the euro gets stronger, meaning they'd have less euros per pound, and therefore less to live on, making the means test more likely to be favourable.

    Don't take anyone's word for it over the phone or likewise; send off the forms and get a written response. You've nothing to lose.

    HTH :)

    Hi many thanks for the link:) I have passed it on to them:D

    Thanks.

    Stove Fan:)


  • #39
    boxtysugarbulb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23 ✭boxtysugarbulb


    Stove Fan wrote: »
    Hi many thanks for the link:) I have passed it on to them:D

    Thanks.

    Stove Fan:)
    You're welcome. If I remember correctly, they can even claim for up to 6 months money backdated, if they would have been entitled to it had they applied earlier. :)


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