Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

smashey · 26-05-2008 9:16pm

sinnerboy wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=louXPUW7tHU

:D:D:D

Schooby · 26-05-2008 10:12pm

quality

secman · 26-05-2008 10:15pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

if the previous buyer got 'permission consequent' on the original outline permission, then that permission is still valid on the site, and your brother can apply for permission to 'change house design'....once all conditions of 'permission consequent' are ok to comply with.
What was the date of the grant of 'permission consequent'??... the permission if valid for 5 years from that date

As previously stated my brother bought a site on which a previous potential buyer applied for and got FPP for a bungalow. This was granted in Dec 2005. However since then a new 7 year development plan has been implimented. His Arch Tech has advised him that he has to re apply for FPP in his own name but that the regs are much tighter now and he only has a 45% chance of getting FPP. Mainly due to the percolation area and type of soil. Any ideas as to his best approach. He has sold his home in UK and fully intends to relocate to Wexford to live. Only other option suggested,was to try and sell the site ! Not really an option , as he does wish to build there. At this stage he is content to keep the house design as is in the orig FPP granted. Only change really is to get his name on it. Sounds simple ?

An update: Brother contacted the CC and they are sending out forms to arrange a Pre planning meeting. Fingers crossed ! Seems the best way to go ?

All advice deeply appreciated.
Yours
Secman

RKQ · 29-05-2008 6:51pm

Wexford will insist on new EPA soil suitability test if it was not done in 2005.
Changing the name on the permission will require a new full application. It may not be successful!

Returning from abroad would help, if he intends to settle in his local area. Returning emigrants are catered for, if they return to their childhood area.

Pre-planning meetings can't be relied on.

No mortgage required? If no stage payments are required you could build the house as per planning permission, its abit messy legally but not impossible. The permission is valid and legal.
Discuss "pros" & "cons" with your Solicitor!

Having to change the name in the first place is crazy. You'd think if a site had planning permission it would easy get the same house, on the same site under a different persons name, but it may not be!

Its a bias or a sort of "Name-ism", which must be unconstitutional. Interesting one to Appeal if refused!

PM if you want

smashey · 29-05-2008 10:51pm

RKQ wrote: »

Its a bias or a sort of "Name-ism", which must be unconstitutional. Interesting one to Appeal if refused!

PM if you want

Unconstitutional?

Please expand.

RKQ · 29-05-2008 11:19pm

Unconstitutional because the Council granted permission on this site. Therefore they have no objection to a house on this site.
The Council was happy with the design and layout of this dwelling, its sewerage facilities and sight-lines etc. The Council are happy for the original applicant to build this house but may object to a different applicant building the exact same house in the exact same position on the exact same site. If permission was refused, which could happen, it would be discrimination.

One person in the State would "somehow" have more of a right that another person, to live on that site. That type of discrimination or name-ism would be unconstitutional!

smashey · 29-05-2008 11:27pm

RKQ wrote: »

Unconstitutional because the Council granted permission on this site. Therefore they have no objection to a house on this site.
The Council was happy with the design and layout of this dwelling, its sewerage facilities and sight-lines etc. The Council are happy for the original applicant to build this house but may object to a different applicant building the exact same house in the exact same position on the exact same site. If permission was refused, which could happen, it would be discrimination.

One person in the State would "somehow" have more of a right that another person, to live on that site. That type of discrimination or name-ism would be unconstitutional!

Well, until such times as it is challenged and a ruling made, I think unconstitutional is a pretty strong term. For now, this issue seems to be well enough covered in the various county development plans. I could easily get permission for a house in my area but somebody from 20 miles away wouldn't. Them's the breaks.

Mellor · 29-05-2008 11:33pm

Is it discrimination, yes

Is it unconstitutional, i'm not sure.

RKQ · 29-05-2008 11:41pm

I agree Smashy, them's the breaks but that doesn't make it right. Thats why our legal system is totally independent. The law is not based on your location, name, colour or cread. It may seem a bit strong but its still true! Many have wished to challange such unfair decisions in Court but alas they just don't have the money. Still its only a matter of time....

smashey · 29-05-2008 11:48pm

I actually look forward to the day it is challenged.

muffler · 30-05-2008 2:16am

secman wrote: »

As previously stated my brother bought a site on which a previous potential buyer applied for and got FPP for a bungalow. This was granted in Dec 2005. However since then a new 7 year development plan has been implimented. His Arch Tech has advised him that he has to re apply for FPP in his own name but that the regs are much tighter now and he only has a 45% chance of getting FPP. Mainly due to the percolation area and type of soil. Any ideas as to his best approach. He has sold his home in UK and fully intends to relocate to Wexford to live. Only other option suggested,was to try and sell the site ! Not really an option , as he does wish to build there. At this stage he is content to keep the house design as is in the orig FPP granted. Only change really is to get his name on it. Sounds simple ?

An update: Brother contacted the CC and they are sending out forms to arrange a Pre planning meeting. Fingers crossed ! Seems the best way to go ?

All advice deeply appreciated.
Yours
Secman

I cant see a problem here from what you have stated.

If he was entitled to apply for and get permission to build in his own right in 2005 then he is entitled to take up the benefit of the existing permission.

I saying that he should still discuss this with his solicitor as we dont know what conditions have been imposed and in any event we dont allow legal discussion here.

secman · 30-05-2008 9:32am

Thanks guys for all the replies and input. At end of day its the Brothers call, not too sure myself what I would do if in his shoes !

I do see some problems in piggy backing on existing FPP.

1. Names on Commencement notice
2. Section 47 Agreement to be draw up.... orig applicants name ?

I did suggest to him in jest to change his name by deed poll, but he's not too keen on the name "Tara" !

Secman

Schooby · 02-06-2008 11:37pm

Mellor wrote: »

Is it discrimination, yes

Is it unconstitutional, i'm not sure.

It is positive discrimination towards people from an area not discrimination against non-locals.

BRICKTOP · 03-06-2008 6:41pm

Hi,

First time poster. Just got an option to buy an acre (no pp) with good road frontage in Meath from Wife's Uncle, she is from the area, I'm from Dublin. We currently live in Dublin (in house purchased in 2001), but really want to build and move to Meath (better place for our kids, be near her Parents etc). We are now meeting Architects etc. What is required to prove local needs? Any tips help would be appreciated.

Supertech · 03-06-2008 6:50pm

Check County Development Plan under 'Rural Housing' - all requirements should be listed in there.

muffler · 03-06-2008 6:54pm

Supertech wrote: »

Check County Development Plan under 'Rural Housing' - all requirements should be listed in there.

Trying to do me out of a job

Agreed.

Supertech · 03-06-2008 7:15pm

Sorry Muffler .....

muffler · 03-06-2008 10:58pm

Supertech wrote: »

Sorry Muffler .....

Just kidding you know

Tomboy · 11-06-2008 9:26pm

I have a question. The decision date for my planning application was 10-June-2008. Now I received no letter from the council on this date in addition to no phonecall from the council. I did find out through my local TD. I though I would have had the letter with the decision on it today the 11-June-2008 but yet again no letter. I did contact the council this evening and they have told me that it has been posted today and I will have it tomorrow 12-June-2008 2 days after the decision date. I thought the council had to let you know in writing by the decision date of the decision. Does this not contravene any acts or something. Could I get planning by default if this is the case.

The decision was to grant subject to conditions but I do not know what is in the condiditons so although I want to build a dormer dwelling they may tell me that I can have planning permission for a bungalow. If this is the case can I tell them well you were late with your decision therefore I have planning by default. The reason I ask is that someone mentioned this to me a while back but didn't know if it was true or not.

muffler · 11-06-2008 9:39pm

Simple answer is that so long as they posted the notification of the decision no later than the due date then they are covered. All decisions are sent by registered post and you are entitled to ask for and be shown the date it was posted.

Its not their problem after that if An Post happen to have a crap service.

Edit: This post and the one above have been moved to the "planning Issues" thread

cuculainn · 14-06-2008 2:16pm

I wish to apply for planning permission on family land. I live in the area at present. our engineer has told us that the there should be no problem with the concil granting permission as we comply as a local need. However he has warned us that it is likely that the NRA will appeal as we are on a National secondary rd where the national speed limit applies.
Has anyone have any experience of this and Can anyone advise what is the best course of action if the NRA do appeal? Also is there any information we can submit that will help our cause?
This is the only site we have and is part of the family farm..

Thanks for your help

sydthebeat · 16-06-2008 12:14pm

cuculainn wrote: »

I wish to apply for planning permission on family land. I live in the area at present. our engineer has told us that the there should be no problem with the concil granting permission as we comply as a local need. However he has warned us that it is likely that the NRA will appeal as we are on a National secondary rd where the national speed limit applies.
Has anyone have any experience of this and Can anyone advise what is the best course of action if the NRA do appeal? Also is there any information we can submit that will help our cause?
This is the only site we have and is part of the family farm..

Thanks for your help

You would be well advised to have a preplanning meeting with the planner on this.

The NRA have restrictions on new entrances onto secondary roads, however if it can be shown that:
1. the is no increased danger to existing traffic on the road ie cars can safely pull into and out of your new entrance.
2. you have the requisite sight distances for a secondary road
3. there is no other available land on the land holding to apply on
4. this is the only land holding under the ownership of the landowner
5. you conform to local housing requirements

Its possible that the NRA will be contacted by the council as part of the application... they may recommend a refusal, it doesnt have to be an objection/submission.

asprilla7 · 16-06-2008 10:21pm

my first time posting so apologies if im in wrong area.
want to look for planning permission to rennovate an old two storey stone wall house which has not been lived in for maybe 40 years(no doors, some windows blocked up, no second floor, more or less an empty shell) the house is listed as protected structure.would like to extend the house also.
would like to know what my first move should be. should i ask council what changes can be made to house or should i get architect to do up plans first to send in. also heard there is grants available to do up protected structures, is this true
all help would be greatly appreciated thanks
dom

muffler · 16-06-2008 10:27pm

asprilla7 wrote: »

my first time posting so apologies if im in wrong area.
want to look for planning permission to rennovate an old two storey stone wall house which has not been lived in for maybe 40 years(no doors, some windows blocked up, no second floor, more or less an empty shell) the house is listed as protected structure.would like to extend the house also.
would like to know what my first move should be. should i ask council what changes can be made to house or should i get architect to do up plans first to send in. also heard there is grants available to do up protected structures, is this true
all help would be greatly appreciated thanks
dom

If its on the list of protected structures I would definitely advise talking to the planners first as you are going to very restricted in what you can do. After that you can decide what way to brief your architect.

RKQ · 17-06-2008 9:35am

I agree, discuss your proposal with the planner first, preferably on site. Alternative take lots of photos to the meeting.

If you like the old building and only want to extent it in a traditional way, I don't see a problem. The Council will consider you saving this structure v's total decay and the eventual loss of the structure.
You will usually have to use traditional materials - wooden windows, natural slate, lime mortar etc. Pm for advice. You might even be required to install single glazing - depending on the historical value of the building.

I'm assuming the house is in a rural area. If so,ensure the site is large enough to accommodate adequate sewerage facilities, at least half acre.

Old Buildings can be expensive to refurbish but they can be fully modernised, insulated etc easily and in a sensitive way.

RKQ · 17-06-2008 10:11am

Discriminatory Planning Conditions - The case for reform

A report by the Law Society’s Reform Committee
A summary document
Introduction

Increasingly grants of planning permission for dwellings in rural areas both in villages and the open countryside, have attached conditions that specify a particular class or description of persons that may occupy a structure. Such conditions in effect identify those persons with roots or links in areas under pressure and confer to them the right to occupy a dwelling, in the interests of “sustainable rural communities”.

In the pursuit of augmenting the “quality, fairness and effectiveness” of selected areas of Irish legislation, the Law Society, Law Reform Committee have produced a probing and rich analysis of the legal issues surrounding the imposition of such conditions by County Councils and An Bord Pleanála. With specific reference to the implications of the report for the Board, it would appear that doubt has been cast as to whether all of the occupancy conditions currently utilised would have a substantive and firm basis against the backdrop of, Irish legislation, the Constitution, the European Convention on Human Rights and the European Convention on Human Rights Act 2003

asprilla7 · 17-06-2008 1:39pm

thanks for replys. much appreciated, great to be able to ask people in the know

JustinF · 17-06-2008 4:20pm

Hi all,

Myself and my partner are looking at buying a site in Co. Wicklow, its a 1acre site zoned as an area of natural beauty. So we are looking at this as an investment, possible more long term (5 to 10yrs). Couple of questions somebody may be able to help us with, 1. If planning gets more relaxed in the next 5 to 10 years can you then obtain planning in these type of area's? and 2. Is there any chance we can build a temporary residents on the site, Mobile home? log cabin maybe? (if called a summer home) or anything else we don't know about. As we can't afford to buy the site and pay a mortgage elsewhere. Would really appreciate any insight in the matter.

smashey · 17-06-2008 7:30pm

JustinF wrote: »

Hi all,

Myself and my partner are looking at buying a site in Co. Wicklow, its a 1acre site zoned as an area of natural beauty. So we are looking at this as an investment, possible more long term (5 to 10yrs). Couple of questions somebody may be able to help us with, 1. If planning gets more relaxed in the next 5 to 10 years can you then obtain planning in these type of area's? and 2. Is there any chance we can build a temporary residents on the site, Mobile home? log cabin maybe? (if called a summer home) or anything else we don't know about. As we can't afford to buy the site and pay a mortgage elsewhere. Would really appreciate any insight in the matter.

As it's in an area of natural beauty, you're going to have problems. All the temporary measures you mentioned will require planning permission.

In this case, you absolutely have to speak to the planners before spending your money.

sunnysoutheast · 17-06-2008 10:56pm

JustinF wrote: »

Hi all,

Myself and my partner are looking at buying a site in Co. Wicklow, its a 1acre site zoned as an area of natural beauty. So we are looking at this as an investment, possible more long term (5 to 10yrs). Couple of questions somebody may be able to help us with, 1. If planning gets more relaxed in the next 5 to 10 years can you then obtain planning in these type of area's? and 2. Is there any chance we can build a temporary residents on the site, Mobile home? log cabin maybe? (if called a summer home) or anything else we don't know about. As we can't afford to buy the site and pay a mortgage elsewhere. Would really appreciate any insight in the matter.

Are you proposing to build a "temporary" structure and then live in it permanently if you can't pay a mortgage on the site and another home? Sorry if I read your first post wrong but it wouldn't have much natural beauty any more if you plonk a caravan etc. in the middle of it would it? What about services, sewage, etc.?

You'd be well advised to buy "subject to planning permission being obtained" but frankly I don't think you'll get anywhere given the zoning.

SSE

Planning issues - post them here MOD WARNING post #1

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