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skronedale gundogs

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 12 Maxus


    Hi,
    I have been looking at this for long enough and feel I have to post to back up what other guys for what they have been saying. There are different types of dogs for different circumstances (horses for courses). The The type of dogs used in trialing today have been purpose bred to be small fast stylish and easy to train, they are used to ground with plenty game. These dogs would not last the day hunting where i am as it is very rough ground where game can be sparse for long parts of the day and cover is heavy where the game is. These are dogs that are proper capable of hunting woodcock all day long. I have two bitches with Monalue G parents these are proper dogs for Irish terrain and game. I hope to breed one of these this year but have spent alot of time trying to find a similar dog with Monalue lines im not pushed if it has FTCH before its name as long as it has good drive and is not afraid of cover. if you just want a dog for hunting get a dog that you know the parents are good hunting dogs and have a reasonable pedigree .
    If you are interested in trialing then breeding is vital to get a small stylish spaniel.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭fiestaman


    Well lads thanks for all the replys. i have bought a pup from Working stock with Monalue Lines:). I seen the parents and the owner showed me the Sire hunting HEAVY cover and he was like a bulldozer.Also took me to a pond and showed me him retreiving. he had excellent control of the dog. Nice stocky well built dogs the two of them. this is the kind of dog i need for my hunting as its like what Maxus said, heavy cover not much game but dog will have to hunt so hopefully from the breeding he will turn out good. Thanks all. spoke to Norman Blakney, a very nice man and gave me a least 20mins on the phone talking about dogs.

    Collecting on saturday, will post up a pic next week:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭kermitpwee


    Maxus wrote: »
    Hi,
    The The type of dogs used in trialing today have been purpose bred to be small fast stylish and easy to train, they are used to ground with plenty game. These dogs would not last the day hunting where i am as it is very rough ground if you just want a dog for hunting get a dog that you know the parents are good hunting dogs and have a reasonable pedigree .
    If you are interested in trialing then breeding is vital to get a small stylish spaniel.
    Agree totally, it is annoying that trialing has gone the way it has, there was a time when trialing was the showroom for hunting spaniels and pedigree spaniels actually meant something. Now trialing is a seperate sport from hunting, sad to see imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭kermitpwee


    lb1981 wrote: »
    I have a cocker from Openshaws Chyknell goldstar , unbelevable energy ,she will go go 2 days in a row non stop ,she cost me big as a pup but i am more than happy with her and il make that money back when i breed her but that is not important .She has 50 ftch in a 5 gen pedigree, now she took a lot of work to channel that energy but it has come up trumps for me.My springer pup (1 year) is coming on brilliant his sire is Blaencowny Archie of lake county and the bitch is a wood cock dog with good drive and that mix has threw a big strong dog pup for me, really obedient and clever and full of muscle so with that mix i didnt have to calm him down he just takes to training and hunting naturally.
    So there is an example of 2 dogs from two different back grounds that can work together with some owner effort put in.
    It is a pain in the hole when you look through donedeal and every set of pups sire is hattonswood broc or skronedale romulas, the interbreeding in a few years will be a joke in irish spaniels.
    Agree with most of what you say but the cocker example is not a good one as there lineage has not been destroyed in the pursuit of trials. Your pup has become big boned as the bitch was a big woodcock dog? she must be as most traits in dogs come from the bitch. In trialing there are more dog ftch than bitches as you can make a fortune of the stude money to every tom, dick and harry that has a bitch looking for a service. A Ftch bitch could help save the breed with selective breeding taken if she was of a good size but very little money can be made form her. There are exceptions to every rule but thats the main jist imo.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 965 ✭✭✭lb1981


    Maxus wrote: »
    Hi,
    I have been looking at this for long enough and feel I have to post to back up what other guys for what they have been saying. There are different types of dogs for different circumstances (horses for courses). The The type of dogs used in trialing today have been purpose bred to be small fast stylish and easy to train, they are used to ground with plenty game. These dogs would not last the day hunting where i am as it is very rough ground where game can be sparse for long parts of the day and cover is heavy where the game is. These are dogs that are proper capable of hunting woodcock all day long. I have two bitches with Monalue G parents these are proper dogs for Irish terrain and game. I hope to breed one of these this year but have spent alot of time trying to find a similar dog with Monalue lines im not pushed if it has FTCH before its name as long as it has good drive and is not afraid of cover. if you just want a dog for hunting get a dog that you know the parents are good hunting dogs and have a reasonable pedigree .
    If you are interested in trialing then breeding is vital to get a small stylish spaniel.
    Here is my fellas pedigree if you want a service down the line;)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 965 ✭✭✭lb1981


    kermitpwee wrote: »
    lb1981 wrote: »
    I have a cocker from Openshaws Chyknell goldstar , unbelevable energy ,she will go go 2 days in a row non stop ,she cost me big as a pup but i am more than happy with her and il make that money back when i breed her but that is not important .She has 50 ftch in a 5 gen pedigree, now she took a lot of work to channel that energy but it has come up trumps for me.My springer pup (1 year) is coming on brilliant his sire is Blaencowny Archie of lake county and the bitch is a wood cock dog with good drive and that mix has threw a big strong dog pup for me, really obedient and clever and full of muscle so with that mix i didnt have to calm him down he just takes to training and hunting naturally.
    So there is an example of 2 dogs from two different back grounds that can work together with some owner effort put in.
    It is a pain in the hole when you look through donedeal and every set of pups sire is hattonswood broc or skronedale romulas, the interbreeding in a few years will be a joke in irish spaniels.
    Agree with most of what you say but the cocker example is not a good one as there lineage has not been destroyed in the pursuit of trials. Your pup has become big boned as the bitch was a big woodcock dog? she must be as most traits in dogs come from the bitch. In trialing there are more dog ftch than bitches as you can make a fortune of the stude money to every tom, dick and harry that has a bitch looking for a service. A Ftch bitch could help save the breed with selective breeding taken if she was of a good size but very little money can be made form her. There are exceptions to every rule but thats the main jist imo.
    I was just using the cocker as she was breed for trailing,so it took time to get her in rough shooting mode,the springer both parents are big as the sire is from monalue lines,I was just saying by mixing the sire with the woodcock birch it threw a set of pups that could hunt heavy cover but have good trailing lines


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭TriggerPL


    lb1981 wrote: »
    I was just using the cocker as she was breed for trailing,so it took time to get her in rough shooting mode,the springer both parents are big as the sire is from monalue lines,I was just saying by mixing the sire with the woodcock birch it threw a set of pups that could hunt heavy cover but have good trailing lines

    Cockers lines have not being damaged as much because their already small and fast .
    when you see springers and there as small as cockers does that tell ya there something wrong.

    yes your right mixing trailing blood with strong working bitches isnt a bad thing , it when you line breed trailing dogs with trailing bitches , that is where the problem is . or joe soap mixing his family bitch that he bought for a hundred euro with a ftch and expecting pups worth 400 euro a pop advertised as good gun dogs pups.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭TriggerPL


    lb1981 wrote: »
    Here is my fellas pedigree if you want a service down the line;)


    Picture of the dog ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭TriggerPL


    nice solid looking dog stocky , im a big fan of heavy marks of liver over white.

    i set up a post a few pages back to try and get a spaniel data base going post him up on it so lads can see whats out there for a service .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 Tk.ie


    fiestaman wrote: »
    Well lads thanks for all the replys. i have bought a pup from Working stock with Monalue Lines:). I seen the parents and the owner showed me the Sire hunting HEAVY cover and he was like a bulldozer.Also took me to a pond and showed me him retreiving. he had excellent control of the dog. Nice stocky well built dogs the two of them. this is the kind of dog i need for my hunting as its like what Maxus said, heavy cover not much game but dog will have to hunt so hopefully from the breeding he will turn out good. Thanks all. spoke to Norman Blakney, a very nice man and gave me a least 20mins on the phone talking about dogs.

    Collecting on saturday, will post up a pic next week:)
    Hi
    Best of luck with the new pup - I've been looking for a ESS for a few weeks and done deal is full of crap at the mo. Could you tell me where you got your pup from as want to get a heavy cover dog for the golden vale in south Leitrim


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭fiestaman


    Tk.ie wrote: »
    fiestaman wrote: »
    Well lads thanks for all the replys. i have bought a pup from Working stock with Monalue Lines:). I seen the parents and the owner showed me the Sire hunting HEAVY cover and he was like a bulldozer.Also took me to a pond and showed me him retreiving. he had excellent control of the dog. Nice stocky well built dogs the two of them. this is the kind of dog i need for my hunting as its like what Maxus said, heavy cover not much game but dog will have to hunt so hopefully from the breeding he will turn out good. Thanks all. spoke to Norman Blakney, a very nice man and gave me a least 20mins on the phone talking about dogs.

    Collecting on saturday, will post up a pic next week:)
    Hi
    Best of luck with the new pup - I've been looking for a ESS for a few weeks and done deal is full of crap at the mo. Could you tell me where you got your pup from as want to get a heavy cover dog for the golden vale in south Leitrim

    Pm sent.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭TriggerPL


    hey is it this saturday your collecting the pup .?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭fiestaman


    TriggerPL wrote: »
    hey is it this saturday your collecting the pup .?

    No last saturday, have him at home since. He sleeps in the shed at night and during the day, 9-4. Girlfriend lets him out at 1 when shes on lunch. I let him in around d house then in evening,i think im doing wrong by doing this as hes getting to like the house. Id hate to put him back in shed after been out for an hour as hes in there most of the day. Run should b finished sunday,then can put him in there. Still screeching abit in morning when he wakes. Hope he takes to the run ok coz have neighbors.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭TriggerPL


    fiestaman wrote: »
    No last saturday, have him at home since. He sleeps in the shed at night and during the day, 9-4. Girlfriend lets him out at 1 when shes on lunch. I let him in around d house then in evening,i think im doing wrong by doing this as hes getting to like the house. Id hate to put him back in shed after been out for an hour as hes in there most of the day. Run should b finished sunday,then can put him in there. Still screeching abit in morning when he wakes. Hope he takes to the run ok coz have neighbors.

    nothing wrong with what ya are doing pup need loads of social interaction , and it will stand to you when your hunting him . the run will be different cause he in the fresh air and see all that going on , if the barking starts knock it on the head straight away . give him a shake and shout NO! he wont be long getting the message .

    but dont go letting him out when he's barking or he will soon realise that barking get him what he wants .

    Any pic yet ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭fiestaman


    TriggerPL wrote: »
    fiestaman wrote: »
    No last saturday, have him at home since. He sleeps in the shed at night and during the day, 9-4. Girlfriend lets him out at 1 when shes on lunch. I let him in around d house then in evening,i think im doing wrong by doing this as hes getting to like the house. Id hate to put him back in shed after been out for an hour as hes in there most of the day. Run should b finished sunday,then can put him in there. Still screeching abit in morning when he wakes. Hope he takes to the run ok coz have neighbors.

    nothing wrong with what ya are doing pup need loads of social interaction , and it will stand to you when your hunting him . the run will be different cause he in the fresh air and see all that going on , if the barking starts knock it on the head straight away . give him a shake and shout NO! he wont be long getting the message .

    but dont go letting him out when he's barking or he will soon realise that barking get him what he wants .

    Any pic yet ?

    Thanks,i thought that about run. Its funny,when i let him out he trots around and takes about 10mins before he goes toilet after he smells and picks up everything,then he runs to back door to go in so i pass on and call him up the garden for another 5mins then call him from there in. Quick to pick up the luxeries. Hopefully pic thiseven. Cant upload from phone,well i dont know how


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭fiestaman


    Pics posted in pic thread


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭snipe02


    smashing looking pup hope he turns out well for ya and wish ya many years happy hunting with em


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭TriggerPL


    good looking pup , gud head and lovely marking . ya got to luv spaniels with big brown heads . very best of luck.
    Is monalue cherry blossom in his background , the marking are very badgercourt , which is no bad thing


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭fiestaman


    TriggerPL wrote: »
    good looking pup , gud head and lovely marking . ya got to luv spaniels with big brown heads . very best of luck.
    Is monalue cherry blossom in his background , the marking are very badgercourt , which is no bad thing

    Thanks. Yea strong monalue in the lines in both parents going back. I hope he is as good as his father and cousins. Il do my best for him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51 ✭✭highduck


    fiestaman wrote: »
    TriggerPL wrote: »
    good looking pup , gud head and lovely marking . ya got to luv spaniels with big brown heads . very best of luck.
    Is monalue cherry blossom in his background , the marking are very badgercourt , which is no bad thing

    Thanks. Yea strong monalue in the lines in both parents going back. I hope he is as good as his father and cousins. Il do my best for him.[/Quote
    fiestaman wrote: »
    TriggerPL wrote: »
    good looking pup , gud head and lovely marking . ya got to luv spaniels with big brown heads . very best of luck.
    Is monalue cherry blossom in his background , the marking are very badgercourt , which is no bad thing

    Thanks. Yea strong monalue in the lines in both parents going back. I hope he is as good as his father and cousins. Il do my best for him.


    Best of luck with your pup I hope he turns out to be a hunting machine and all you want in a spaniel.

    Just reading the total post I want to make a few comments.

    I dont buy this argument about trialing dogs not being able to hit cover or last a days hunting.Its a load of ****.some of the best hunting spaniels that i have seen were trial bred/extrial dogs.monalue this ,monalue that,yes i agree that they are good line but look at a monalue pedigree whats behind it.-top trial breeding.a lot of it uk beeding where dogs were and still hunted on estates where they fall over game.any trial man worth a ****e breeds for drive,speed style and stamina.drive is what causes a dog to belt cover.speed and style are what excentuate drive and those three arent worth a toss if a dog if the dog hasnt the stamina to maintain that pace for long periods.

    i have sold trial dogs that didnt have the speed to win trials that have gone to areas where within two weeks i have had calls from guys asking if i had any more for sale.

    I have trialed a dog on a saturday and shot 8-10 woodcock off them on a sunday.They were all trial bred by myself or other trial men.

    The reason that a lot of roughshooting men dont like trial breeding is because the dogs are soft in temperment and guys havnt the patience or experience to train them.probably the hardest hunting spaniels that i have seen have all had soft temperments.hattonswood broc,stedroc sker.misslechalke lad,carburgh art- sof temperments but all champions and machines to hunt.

    A **** bitch to a champion dog is **** breeding not trial breeding.a lot of shooting bitchs are notjudged realisticly by their owners before breeding them to champions.

    Equally most champions are over used and flood the gene pool which is not a good thing for.the breed.

    People should.judge their bitch realisticaly and not breed her unless she is exceptional as a hunting dog with no major faults (HARD MOUTH,NOISE ETC).

    If she is they should look at her pedigree and try and identify where her strengths come from and breed to a equally good dog(NOT NECESSARILY A CHAMPION) that has that strong line is his pedigree.line breeding is the only hope of reproducing quality consistantly ,outcrosses are necessary but are a lottery and rarely throw exceptional litters as a whole.

    Trial men do go through a lot of dogs but this is because each one is looking for next badgercourt druid,hales smut or kenine rob.average dosnt cut in trials.dogs have to be very good to exceptional to last the course.

    Advice to anyone wanting to buy a hunting machine go to a few trials and watch the dogs that cant be held in a tight hunting area by their handlers.these are the strong hunting dogs with plenty of drive and usually dont last in trials but make exceptional roughshooting or woodcock dogs.

    Apologies for the grammer and spelling mistakes trying to type on iphone with big mick fingers.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭Spunk84


    someone with a bit of sense:cool:one mans rubbish is another mans fortune


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭TriggerPL


    highduck wrote: »
    fiestaman wrote: »
    TriggerPL wrote: »
    good looking pup , gud head and lovely marking . ya got to luv spaniels with big brown heads . very best of luck.
    Is monalue cherry blossom in his background , the marking are very badgercourt , which is no bad thing

    Thanks. Yea strong monalue in the lines in both parents going back. I hope he is as good as his father and cousins. Il do my best for him.[/Quote
    fiestaman wrote: »
    TriggerPL wrote: »
    good looking pup , gud head and lovely marking . ya got to luv spaniels with big brown heads . very best of luck.
    Is monalue cherry blossom in his background , the marking are very badgercourt , which is no bad thing

    Thanks. Yea strong monalue in the lines in both parents going back. I hope he is as good as his father and cousins. Il do my best for him.


    Best of luck with your pup I hope he turns out to be a hunting machine and all you want in a spaniel.

    Just reading the total post I want to make a few comments.

    I dont buy this argument about trialing dogs not being able to hit cover or last a days hunting.Its a load of ****.some of the best hunting spaniels that i have seen were trial bred/extrial dogs.monalue this ,monalue that,yes i agree that they are good line but look at a monalue pedigree whats behind it.-top trial breeding.a lot of it uk beeding where dogs were and still hunted on estates where they fall over game.any trial man worth a ****e breeds for drive,speed style and stamina.drive is what causes a dog to belt cover.speed and style are what excentuate drive and those three arent worth a toss if a dog if the dog hasnt the stamina to maintain that pace for long periods.

    i have sold trial dogs that didnt have the speed to win trials that have gone to areas where within two weeks i have had calls from guys asking if i had any more for sale.

    I have trialed a dog on a saturday and shot 8-10 woodcock off them on a sunday.They were all trial bred by myself or other trial men.

    The reason that a lot of roughshooting men dont like trial breeding is because the dogs are soft in temperment and guys havnt the patience or experience to train them.probably the hardest hunting spaniels that i have seen have all had soft temperments.hattonswood broc,stedroc sker.misslechalke lad,carburgh art- sof temperments but all champions and machines to hunt.

    A **** bitch to a champion dog is **** breeding not trial breeding.a lot of shooting bitchs are notjudged realisticly by their owners before breeding them to champions.

    Equally most champions are over used and flood the gene pool which is not a good thing for.the breed.

    People should.judge their bitch realisticaly and not breed her unless she is exceptional as a hunting dog with no major faults (HARD MOUTH,NOISE ETC).

    If she is they should look at her pedigree and try and identify where her strengths come from and breed to a equally good dog(NOT NECESSARILY A CHAMPION) that has that strong line is his pedigree.line breeding is the only hope of reproducing quality consistantly ,outcrosses are necessary but are a lottery and rarely throw exceptional litters as a whole.

    Trial men do go through a lot of dogs but this is because each one is looking for next badgercourt druid,hales smut or kenine rob.average dosnt cut in trials.dogs have to be very good to exceptional to last the course.

    Advice to anyone wanting to buy a hunting machine go to a few trials and watch the dogs that cant be held in a tight hunting area by their handlers.these are the strong hunting dogs with plenty of drive and usually dont last in trials but make exceptional roughshooting or woodcock dogs.

    Apologies for the grammer and spelling mistakes trying to type on iphone with big mick fingers.

    Hey Mick nice read , but I've said pretty much what you just said about champion dogs pups flooding the Market because some woman think there family pet is good enough to be covered by a ftch.

    And agree with u that bloodlines are the way to go , people say monalue lines but they all go back to rytex or badgercourt .

    What puzziling me is that you say go to trails and take notice of the dogs that are hard held in a tight area and don't last long in trailing are the dogs to get or breed from , so saying that your saying that buying a pup off ftch mammy and ftch daddy isn't the way to go .

    Fact is that as you said trailing men want the soft temperament dogs for trailing and the hard held heavy hitting burst 10 woodcock out of the hedge dogs don't last in trailing for that reason

    How can you say these dogs are michines to hunt when you don't see them doing a full day with very little scent or birds .

    Spunk , remove head from A hole then post .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭kermitpwee


    highduck wrote: »
    fiestaman wrote: »


    Advice to anyone wanting to buy a hunting machine go to a few trials and watch the dogs that cant be held in a tight hunting area by their handlers.these are the strong hunting dogs with plenty of drive and usually dont last in trials but make exceptional roughshooting or woodcock dogs.

    You have totally contradicted yourself here but I agree totally, the good shooting dogs are thrown to the side in trials as they have too much drive. Trialing is not the game it was in the 70's/80's where Trialing was a game that provided dogs to the shooting fraternity. Now trialing people see them themselves as some sort of distinct brigade from hunters, the trial is held on 'manicured' ground lush with game.
    I have nothing against trialing folk but dont piss on my back and tell me its raining when it comes to spaniels.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭snipe02


    thanks for that highduck


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