Homeopathy?

netman · 24-11-2003 12:08pm #1

I've been suffering from colds and sore throats for the last three years, I don't even remember when was the last time I felt full-well. It seems to drag on and on forever, with an outbreak of a cold and severe sympthoms, and then they gradually lessen, but never quite go away.

I've tried different GP's, I've tried all sorts of perscriptions, I've even been treated for allergies even though I was never allergic before in my life. Nothing's really helped.

So there I was, lying in bed yesterday unable to sleep because I can't breathe, and I thought of homeopathy. I don't know why I've never considered it before, I always thought of it as something similar to witch doctors.

I wanted to give it a go, and spent the last hour looking for more information, but I find it really hard to find out if there are any Homeopaths in Dublin. There's a zillion websites all over the world dedicated to Homeopathy, some are pretty good, and I'm all the more decided to give it a shot, but now my problem is finding a practicioner nearby.

Does anyone know of a Homeopath or a Clinic specialising in Homeopathy in Dublin? I live in Dublin 9, but don't mind spending time in traffic if that's going to get my health back. Any advice is much appreciated.

Havelock · 24-11-2003 12:17pm

There is a Miss Goodbody who lives in the City Centre who is good, I think she lives in the Apartments on the Northside of the millieum (sp) bridge, can't remember her number. Otherwise in Temple Bar, if you go down either Crow Street or Temple Lane, I can't remember which there is an alternative health centre, or on Wicklow Street there is one on the top floor of the Secret record and Book Store. Can't think of anywhere else at mo.

marrakesh · 24-11-2003 12:18pm

hi,

My girfriend does it she has helped me through a few of my little quirks.. She is doing final year of study in homeopathy and gives talks to lots of people on the subject. As part of her final year she requires some patients so if you want PM me if you like and ill send you on her number. She is based in city area (northside) not sure of postal address but she does calls to people from all over soutside - northside... It is very good for getting rid of ailments that have been occuring constantly...

Beruthiel · 24-11-2003 12:25pm

I have sent you a PM netman

also, for breathing difficulties, you could try a few drops of olibus oil in an oil burner, it's great for helping you breath
anna

davej · 24-11-2003 12:33pm

It's interesting that the subject is "Hopeopathy?", was this a typo ?

Anyway Homeopathy from a scientific point of view is a complete nonsense, it relies on the dubious idea that water somehow has a "memory" of substances that were placed in it.

However, ingesting the water (and that's all it is) is only one part of the treatment. Homeopaths tend to be much more ready to listen than most doctors and part of the treatment involves them listening intently to your problems and understanding where you're coming from etc.... This can be very reassuring to a person and can have positive effects (like reducing stress etc).

Anyway Nelson's just off Grafton St. is a good place to go apparently...

davej

Merovingian · 24-11-2003 1:29pm

Hopeopathy?

what is it???

netman · 24-11-2003 1:43pm

Originally posted by davej
It's interesting that the subject is "Hopeopathy?", was this a typo ?

Just realized it now, yes it's a typo... Must have been a bit of my subconsciousness influencing what I type!

Thanks to everyone who replied, I'm overwhelmed with the responses. I really didn't hold much hope but figured it's worth a shot posting here.

I made a few enquiries, got a list of Homeopaths in my area from Nelsons, so I'll start locally first. Call me lazy, but walking around town with a bad cold isn't my idea of fun

marrakesh - thanks for the offer, I'll drop you a PM in a minute. I'd like to start off with someone in my area, so I'll visit a local homeopath first. If your girlfriend needs a few guinea pigs I'd gladly volunteer once I get over this cold

Merovingian · 24-11-2003 2:13pm

no but seriously what is it? some sort of massage or something

netman · 24-11-2003 2:26pm

here's a good overview of what homeopathy is (for someone completely new to it like me), found it today: http://www2.vhihealthe.com/topic/topic100586947

hipchick · 26-11-2003 4:31pm

davej
Have you ever tried it? Doubt it!

Homeopathy is about kick starting your own bodies natural healing ability, which traditional medicine just surpress's..

I've just started an introduction to it but have been using it at home for a few years now. The reason that homeopathists listen is they need to find the symptoms, sometime very hard to get as most people are used to going to their GP

"so you've got a cold" but not every cold is the same and it may have been brought on by something totally different. It can take a while to figure out what remedy to give, but 9 times out of 10 its worked from personal experience.

By the year 2015 our body's will have built up an immunity towards most antibiotics and the superbugs will be unbeatable....its time to take control of our own health and the Holistic approach is the way to go!

Calibos · 27-11-2003 1:36am

Homeopathy is about kick starting your own bodies natural healing ability

Kick starting it.........with a glass of water that has all the supposed active ingredients filtered out but holds a 'memory' of the active ingredient!

Does that glass of water I just drank have a 'memory' of the dinosaur poo its molecules were part of 60 million years ago? I think I feel ill!

Quack medicine if you ask me. All positive results down to placebo effect which, hey if placebo works for you cause you believe then great. Unfortunately I am a skeptic and so placebo can't help my mind fix my body. Sometimes I wish I wasn't a skeptic and so could take advantage of this scientifically validated placebo phenomonan (sp?) TBH more research needs to be done on placebo (ie mind over body) rather then the memory of water!!

:D

skipn_easy · 27-11-2003 1:44am

I don't know what you guys are talking about with the memory and water. Homeopathy is an alternative answer to the going to your local gp and I sincerely think it is a great way of answering some problems. It really helped me when I was getting constant headaches that painkillers were only able to make go away temporarily.

Calibos · 27-11-2003 2:17am

Wyvern,

From the VHI site

Hahnemann formulated these principles of homeopathy:

Law of Similars (like cures like)
Law of the Infinitesimal Dose (The more diluted a remedy is, the more potent it is.)
illness is specific to the individual
Hahnemann's Law of Similars was based on thinking that dated back to Hippocrates in the fourth century B.C. It is the same thinking that provided the basis for vaccinations created by Edward Jenner and Louis Pasteur. These vaccines provoke a reaction in the individual that protects against the actual disease. Allergy treatments work the same way. By exposing a person to minute quantities of the allergen, the person's tolerance levels are elevated.

The Law of the Infinitesimal Dose has always caused controversy among those outside the field of homeopathy. Hahnemann contended that as he diluted his remedies with water and alcohol and succussed, or shook, them, the remedies actually worked more effectively. In fact, diluted homeopathic remedies may have no chemical trace of the original substance. Practitioners believe that the electromagnetic energy of the original substance is retained in the dilution, but toxic side effects of the remedy are not. It is this electrochemical "message" that stimulates the body to heal itself.

Its all placebo I tells ya!

I reckon the original poster should also investigate the healing powers of Pyramids and crystals!

Calibos · 27-11-2003 2:28am

On a serious note though, while I believe positive results are down to placebo, like I said in my last post, if it works for you then good for you but I doubt it would work for me being the skeptical so and so that I am.

The other benefit as posted by Dave is that homeopaths are more thourough in their consultations. ie If the original poster goes into a doctor, the doctor will probably say "ah its probably a persistant cold bug, heres some antiviral or antibiotic" or "ah its probably an allergy, heres an antihistamine". Whereas by more thourough questioning and devoting more time and patience to a person a homeopath stands a better chance of finding the root cause and eliminating it thus 'curing' the ailment.

Silent Bob · 27-11-2003 12:49pm

Homeopathic "medicines" are so diluted that it would require a pill roughly the same mass as the planet Earth to guarantee that you ingest at least one molecule of the 'active' ingredient.

While it is all very nice to believe that there is some kid of super-alternative to medicines that are proven to work, homeopathy's claims of how it works are about as valid as the claim that ferret's milk cures whooping cough...

netman · 27-11-2003 3:12pm

Yeah, I agree with most of what you say. I was under the impression Homeopathy was more like herbal medicine, but after my first session I certainly have a better idea of what it is.

It's more like faith healing, and a matter of belief. I'm a sceptic, too, and the whole thing is a bit too far-fetched for me. I spent my 70 euro, got my bottle of water and a two-hour session that seemed pretty much like talking to a psychiatrist.

I mean you get to these stages in your life when you're willing to try anything, and this was just one of those things for me.

The guy struck me as a bit false, put-on, more as an actor than a doctor if you know what I mean. I'm sure there's people who buy into that and for whom it works. At the same time I don't want to be too quick to dismiss it, so I'll take a sip from my bottle of water for the next two weeks and see where that gets me. I don't hold too much hope in that.

Having said all this, there are some valid points to the whole phylosophy. I know homeopathy tries to link it into a one person one system relationship, so if something affects you physically (you have a cold) it will affect your whole system, mentally and emotionally (you won't feel good, you might be worried etc).

I've certainly found information in medicine that proves this, but to a bit more detail and with a medical background. Basically it says that not getting enough sleep can seriously deplete your immune system. Being depressed also has a big impact on your immune system, and sugar can drop your immune system by 40%. Surprisingly though, they say chocolate (the darker the better) is good for your immune system, apparently cocoa gives it a nice boost (dark chocolate has more cocoa).

So I'm gonna drink my water since I payed 70 euro for it, but I'll also stick with what modern medicine says, and get more sleep, stop trying to save so much money because I'll never be able to afford a house of my own anyway, start enjoying myself more, and pay more visits to the gym and be more active. Watching TV and playing computer games or drinking in a pub is something I'll cut down on, as well as sugary drinks like Coke, 7up, Sprite etc. I've started snacking on fruit instead of chocolate bars, biscuits or crisps.

You never know until you try. I'm not a believer, or a religious person, and I seriously doubt homeopathy can help me, but at least it got me thinking in the right direction.

hipchick · 27-11-2003 6:07pm

By going to a Homeopathist you've already taken a very valuable step in taking control of your health and even if you are sceptical at least, give it a try.

From my own experience i have used these remedies on a lot of my friends especially this time of year the dreaded flu's and colds that everyone is getting, and (shock!) they've worked even on the disbelievers.....

Victor · 29-11-2003 5:15am

I think homeopathy is pure quackery, with the potential of placebo effect. However a complimentary medicine practitioner (sees both sides of the coin) is much better than an alternative medicine practitioner, as many homeopaths are (only see the alternative side of the coin).

What is causing all these colds in the first place?

ur mentor · 30-11-2003 12:48pm

originally quoted by Hipchick
By the year 2015 our body's will have built up an immunity towards most antibiotics and the superbugs will be unbeatable....its time to take control of our own health and the Holistic approach is the way to go! [/B][/QUOTE]

That looks interesting any chance of a link to support it?
I used to hear this about animals and medicines in their grub all the time- even worried about 'silent spring' way back. Just curious

DMT · 30-11-2003 6:29pm

Originally posted by hipchick
From my own experience i have used these remedies on a lot of my friends especially this time of year the dreaded flu's and colds that everyone is getting, and (shock!) they've worked even on the disbelievers.....

It's called anti-bodies - homeopathy has nothing to do with it.

Silent Bob · 30-11-2003 10:20pm

Originally posted by hipchick
By the year 2015 our body's will have built up an immunity towards most antibiotics and the superbugs will be unbeatable....its time to take control of our own health and the Holistic approach is the way to go!

Not true. Not least because it is the bacteria themselves that form a resistance to antibiotics.

However, medical scientists found out many years ago that viruses called bacteriophages prey on bacteria themselves and can be used to cure infections caused by bacteria. Russian medicine has been using them for years. The most interesting thing is that as the bacteria evolve to become resistant the phages evolve to overcome the bacteria once more.

davros · 01-12-2003 2:14pm

Originally posted by netman
here's a good overview of what homeopathy is (for someone completely new to it like me), found it today: http://www2.vhihealthe.com/topic/topic100586947

It's unfortunate that the VHI (and BUPA) have taken to promoting and supporting quack medicines. I'm unhappy that my ever-increasing health premiums are not being spent entirely on making people well but on supporting a very questionable billion-dollar industry instead.

Anyway, for an alternative viewpoint, not written by the homeopaths themselves, try HomeoWatch.

Of particular interest might be a quick overview of research into homeopathy and this essay, written in 1842 by Oliver Wendell Holmes (the father), that completely demolishes the practice. Sad to think that after 160 years and all the amazing advances of modern medicine in that time that crackpot beliefs can still hold such currency.

hipchick · 01-12-2003 2:33pm

You can get the info on Antibiotics over use!

www.tribuneindia.com

Calibos · 01-12-2003 7:45pm

No one is disputing Antibiotics over use. We are disputing homeopathy! As a side note, antibiotics over use is an example of natural selection/evolution at work. Your not a creationist are you!

:D

Did anyone see Casualty the other night? There was a Lady whos two kids were admitted with a form of Pneumonia. She refused treatment for her kids because ALL drugs are tested on animals, She would treat them at home with homeopathic/ holistic/herbal remedies, and anyway they needed infections to toughen up their immune systems. The doctors gave her a bollicking and threatened her with child abuse and social workers! She gave in and let the docs give the kids the medicine:D:D

Nothing worse than a fanatic of any persuasion!

:D

In the same vein it makes me sick to see most of the worlds endangered animals being killed illegally to provide the ingredients for traditional chinese medicine. Not only are there hundreds of millions of chinese buying these medicines but now you have increasing amounts of airheads in the west buying into this crap. Whats that got to do with homeopathy. Obviously animals are not harmed but your wallet is! Honestly some people will just believe anything. I suppose you all get reki massages too where the practitioner doesn't actually touch you but rebalances your ying and yang by hovering his hands 6 inches away from you channeling his chakra etc etc etc etc

:D

hipchick · 02-12-2003 5:16pm

Às it happens i am a Reiki practitioner, and beleive strongly in a more Holistic approach to my health and mental wellbeing.

Homeopathy is a more natural way of dealing with illness, be it long term illness or acute. Ther must be a lot of foolish people out there who trust in Homeopathy, i don't think so...regardless of what you beleive if it doesn't work for you youre not going to try it again...but the proof is in .....People do trust and successfully use Homeopathy.

davej · 03-12-2003 11:04am

I think a more holistic approach to medicine is a good idea. There should be more emphasis on improving communication and reducing stress between a patient and the medical practitioner. Many Doctors out there have very poor social/communication skills, simply passing your medical exams and working ridiculous hours as a student in the casualty ward is not enough to make a good doctor. So yes there definitely does need to be a more holistic approach.

But as for homeopathy, I'm afraid that in and of itself is useless. You are taking a placebo. It's just a pity that the likes of Boots and the VHI give an air of respectability to something that is scientifically ridiculous. But I guess there is money to be made.

Check out this article (based on the Horizon investigation into it):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2002/homeopathy.shtml

ps. I guess we are moving off the topic of PI and more into the realms of scientific debate here....

davej

Myksyk · 12-12-2003 1:16am

I recently posted this on the Skeptic's forum but felt it was relevant to this discussion.

Here are my thoughts on one of the most popular of alternative 'medicines', Homeopathy.

"Ten Things You REALLY Need to Know about Homeopathy"

1. Homeopathy is a multi-billion dollar international industry whose monies are earned selling people sugar water.

2. Homeopathic preparations are produced by diluting substances in water to a level where none of the substance is left (that's right...NONE...just plain old water remains). The over the counter homeopathic remedies sold in your local health food store or chemist are generally in the form of pills. These pills are lactose (sugar) tablets on which a single drop of this plain water has been placed. Homeopathic preparations contain no active ingredients. There is no medicine in this 'medicine'. You are buying sugar and water only. On the side of each bottle a particular herbal extract or mineral is listed, along with the dilution; but not one molecule of these herbs or minerals is actually in the tablets.

3. Homeopaths know this but say that the water in the preparations "remembers" that it was once in contact with such ingredients and can transmit this memory by unknown forces to your body. These claims constitute some of the most extraordinary and bizarre in the alternative healthcare field and yet people tend to see homeopathy as mainstream and plausible (many may mix it up with herbalism, and think the preparations contain active ingredients).

4. Strange that the water remembers the homeopathic product it was in contact with, but manages to ignore the many other pollutants with which it must also have had contact. Very bright water, or very wacky notion. You decide!

5. The claims made by homeopaths about how homeopathy works fundamentally contravene basic laws of chemistry and physics as well as common sense.

6. The effects seen on administration of homeopathic water are far more reasonably explained by well known psychological and physical factors which together constitute the placebo effect.

7. It has been said that Homeopathy is the greatest demonstration of the effectiveness of placebo.

8. Horizon recently took the James Randi $1,000,000 psychic challenge to show that homeopathy works. In the single best controlled scientific study of its kind involving a host of top British scientists the results were crystal clear. Homeopathy does not work. James kept his million.

9. A typical bottle of these sugar tablets costs between €6 and €8. Taken at this rate a 1Kg bag of sugar would cost you approximately €1,400. That's mighty fancy sugar.

10. Still interested in trying out homeopathy? Remember the old adage, 'buyer beware'.

hipchick · 12-12-2003 1:21pm

It may be a multi million business, but explain how it can treat cancer, especially breast cancer with really good results???

Its personal choice, and i agree that some of it is hard to swallow (coming from a non beleiver at one stage), but when you see how it can help not on a superficial level as with normal medicine, but deep down where all your surpressed feeling and emotions go....or do we as a people sweep them under the carpet....and hope it will all go away???

Calibos · 12-12-2003 3:46pm

It may be a multi million business, but explain how it can treat cancer, especially breast cancer with really good results???

Eh, you are the one who is making an 'amazing' claim so the burden of proof lies with you. So explain how it treats breast cancer with really good results! And dont quote a homeopathic site or book, point out the scientific journal where these amazing results were published. Why didn't we hear about this great new treatment on Sky News etc etc

This kind of statement is homeopathy at its most dangerous. ie. Giving false hope to people. Prescribing 'sugar water' to someone with a persistant stuffy nose is one thing and the only damage is to their wallet, but telling someone that homeopathy and sugar water can cure their breast cancer is a whole different ball game.

What I imagine to be the case is that these people with 'breast cancer' are homepathic fundamentalists who never go to the doctor. They never in fact got a diagnosis of breast cancer via a mamagramme(sp?). They felt a lump which was in all likelyhood a mastitus(sp?)ie. lumpy breast due to hormones and their monthly cycle. They went to their homeopathic practitioner who prescribed sugar water and amazingly the mastitus disappeared in a week or two. They then went online to proclaim how homeopathy cured their cancer.

TBH I cant believe that even a Homeopathy practitioner would make claims like that and I wonder have you made that up and are in fact trolling.......

but deep down where all your surpressed feeling and emotions go.

Oh lord, cliche'd arty farty new age nonsense :rolleyes:

Myksyk · 13-12-2003 12:13am

Hi Hipchick,

Do you know what the placebo effect is...really know? Are you aware of the multitude of factors relating to health (for example the powerful effect of relaxation on the immune system), illness (its cyclical nature, the time-limited nature of a lot of illnesses) the 'patient' (placebo, expectation, misapprehension of cause and effect relationships, etc) and the practitioner which all effect actual and perceived outcome? Are you aware that treatments coming out of conventional medicine can claim no credit for up to 30% of successes because these can be easily explained by other factors? Are you aware that most people visiting a therapist of any sort will judge themselves to 'feel' better whether this reflects actual physical improvement or not?

Do you accept that most people visiting an alternative practitioner will benefit because of these placebo factors and NOT because of the validity of the treatment or the ideas underpinning it. Have you DATA to suggest otherwise?

Myksyk · 13-12-2003 11:27am

BTW, there is a similar thread going in the Irish Skeptics community forum under alternative medicine.

Homeopathy?

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