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'Witch anger at Catholic club ban'

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,418 ✭✭✭JimiTime


    Talliesin wrote: »
    The RCC has the holidays of All Saints and All Souls and to them Hallowe'en marks the start of that. There is a historical relationship between the two, but that does not make them the same.

    The idea that [insert Christian holiday here] is one and the same as [insert Pagan holiday here] comes up in two ways. One is some Pagans who try to claim some sort of superiority on this basis, and the other is some Christians who don't celebrate some of the holidays in question and try to claim some sort of superiority on that basis (as well as deliberately conflating bigotry against Catholics and bigotry against Pagans so one can feed on the other). Neither argument rings true to my mind.

    You are trying to establish my motivations, and i think what you say, while entirely wrong, is quite a fair assesment as it could look like what you described.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,314 ✭✭✭Talliesin


    Unless you were writing pamphlets in the seventeenth century, you aren't the prototype of such arguments I was thinking of at all.

    If you were writing pamphlets in the seventeenth century, congratulations on several grounds.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    Jakkass wrote: »
    I think it's quite obvious which God is being referred to if we are discussing Catholicism.

    If the Wiccans don't care who owns the hall. They can respect that the Catholic Church owns that hall and they can go elsewhere so as not to break their ethos out of respect.

    Theres nothing small minded about it. Their religion prohibits it, therefore they cannot endorse or encourage witchcraft.

    Is your problem with the fact that the Catholics refused, or with the Judeo-Christian value behind why they refused. I'm starting to think it is the latter.
    Jakkass wrote: »
    I think it's quite obvious which God is being referred to if we are discussing Catholicism.

    If the Wiccans don't care who owns the hall. They can respect that the Catholic Church owns that hall and they can go elsewhere so as not to break their ethos out of respect.

    Theres nothing small minded about it. Their religion prohibits it, therefore they cannot endorse or encourage witchcraft.

    Is your problem with the fact that the Catholics refused, or with the Judeo-Christian value behind why they refused. I'm starting to think it is the latter.

    :-)

    There is quite a lot which is against Catholicism:-)

    I imagine tumble weed is quite prevalent .

    And boredom.


    Fine we will set up our own hall with gay people and poker and hookers and daiquiris and .......... i have a feeling a whole load of priests will turn up.

    If only for the daiquiris we all know how much priests love daiquiris:-)

    I like priests. Know a lot of them very well . Decent men. Human men.

    See thing is there is not much that is against Witchcraft yet so much that is against Catholicism .........that's why they are nearly always the hypocrites.

    If the catholic church wanted to keep everything that was against Catholicism out of that hall i imagine there would be far fewer priests by morning.

    I fully approve of this ruling . Lets keep things separate shall we us to us and them to them...........although who is who i dont know really.

    It seems to me if you are a devil in a dog collar and hide it you are in and if you are a human in a dog collar and admit you are devil to the world you're out!

    Yes i fully approve of this ruling. Entirely in keeping with the teachings of Catholicism the gospels of almighty god the creator of the universe it is indeed what it is all about .......a church hall party.


    How mundane, how boring, how small, how appropriate.

    How lost in meaning and vanity it all is.
    Church halls hmmm...well if you are going to make a stand i guess you gotta make it somewhere:-) Now thats a hell of a line they are drawing there.It might be more impressive if it was not drawn in biro though. IT is funny how religion gets reduced to little men with clipboards.

    Is the catholic church familiar with Irony???

    Dont you just love justice:-)!?!

    By the way there are some decent priests around still i happen to know a few personally and i can vouch for the fact that they would not have a problem with the use of a hall for such a party............... .they never have before with me anyway.........as long as you buy them a drink:-)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,479 ✭✭✭✭philologos


    Lou.m wrote: »
    :-)

    There is quite a lot which is against Catholicism:-)

    Witchcraft is considered to be sinful in Christianity in general. So I can understand the reasoning behind why they would want it off their property. For example if you went into a building with a Presbyterian ethos with alcohol they will tell you where to go. I know this because at my primary school they were arranging a bring your own booze party / BBQ on the grounds of the Presbyterian church for the parents. However they obviously had to change their arrangements on finding out. Which of course was the respectful thing to do. Likewise it would have been the respectful thing for the Wiccans to do in this case.
    Lou.m wrote: »
    Fine we will set up our own hall with gay people and poker and hookers and daiquiris and .......... i have a feeling a whole load of priests will turn up.

    None of these people are against Christianity. Rather it is the act that is. The cocktails might be if they are opposed to serving alcohol on their grounds. The church I attend to doesn't have much of an issue with this for BBQ's or other church events.
    Lou.m wrote: »
    If only for the daiquiris we all know how much priests love daiquiris:-)

    I like priests. Know a lot of them very well . Decent men. Human men.

    I never said priests weren't human men. Indeed, I thought that was rather obvious. I personally see no need to deify priests like you are suggesting. I'm not even a member of the Church, but I can see that their decision is right on the ball. They have every right to refuse this gathering on their church grounds.
    Lou.m wrote: »
    See thing is there is not much that is against Witchcraft yet so much that is against Catholicism .........that's why they are nearly always the hypocrites.

    So what? You're boasting in that Witchcraft has less rules? Are you kidding me? Most Christians would argue that God revealed to us these rules so as to protect us from the dangers of the world, and to keep us separate from certain worldly activities which could be to our detriment.
    Lou.m wrote: »
    If the catholic church wanted to keep everything that was against Catholicism out of that hall i imagine there would be far fewer priests by morning.

    I'm still not quite getting your point for two reasons.

    1) You haven't quite explained what Catholic priests do that is against Catholicism, apart from a lame excuse to say that being with gay people and prostitutes isn't acceptable. That isn't against Catholicism. Likewise, you go on about a cocktail. Drinking isn't forbidden in Christianity, drunkenness is. Hence they are perfectly fine doing this as long as they are careful.

    2) You assume that I think that priests are perfect. I don't. What I do think is the Church has every right to enforce their ethos concerning their property.
    Lou.m wrote: »
    I fully approve of this ruling . Lets keep things separate shall we us to us and them to them...........although who is who i dont know really.

    The Church doesn't have to tolerate what it considers to be against their faith on their grounds. It's as simple as that.
    Lou.m wrote: »
    It seems to me if you are a devil in a dog collar and hide it you are in and if you are a human in a dog collar and admit you are devil to the world you're out!

    I'm still struggling to see the significance of this argument in this discussion so far.
    Lou.m wrote: »
    Yes i fully approve of this ruling. Entirely in keeping with the teachings of Catholicism the gospels of almighty god the creator of the universe it is indeed what it is all about .......a church hall party.

    It's funny that you say this. It is entirely in keeping with the teachings of Christianity, Catholicism, and the Gospel to prohibit anything to do with witchcraft from their premises.
    Lou.m wrote: »
    How lost in meaning and vanity it all is.
    Church halls hmmm...well if you are going to make a stand i guess you gotta make it somewhere:-) Now thats a hell of a line they are drawing there.It might be more impressive if it was not drawn in biro though. IT is funny how religion gets reduced to little men with clipboards.

    Again, don't see the point with the above. Witchcraft was considered to be against Christianity in the first century also:
    Also many of those who became believers confessed and disclosed their practices. A number of those who practised magic collected their books and burned them publicly; when the value of these books was calculated, it was found to come to fifty thousand silver coins.
    Lou.m wrote: »
    Is the catholic church familiar with Irony???

    Dont you just love justice:-)!?!

    This is utterly irrelevant to whether or not they have the right to refuse the use of their property based on their ethos.
    Lou.m wrote: »
    By the way there are some decent priests around still i happen to know a few personally and i can vouch for the fact that they would not have a problem with the use of a hall for such a party............... .they never have before with me anyway.........as long as you buy them a drink:-)

    Are you suggesting that those who want to be in keeping with their faith aren't decent?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    Jakkass wrote: »
    Witchcraft is considered to be sinful in Christianity in general. So I can understand the reasoning behind why they would want it off their property. For example if you went into a building with a Presbyterian ethos with alcohol they will tell you where to do. I know this because at my primary school they were arranging a bring your own booze party / BBQ on the grounds of the Presbyterian church for the parents. However they obviously had to change their arrangements on finding out. Which of course was the respectful thing to do. Likewise it would have been the respectful thing for the Wiccans to do in this case.



    None of these people are against Christianity. Rather it is the act that is. The cocktails might be if they are opposed to serving alcohol on their grounds. The church I attend to doesn't have much of an issue with this for BBQ's or other church events.



    I never said priests weren't human men. Indeed, I thought that was rather obvious. I personally see no need to deify priests like you are suggesting. I'm not even a member of the Church, but I can see that their decision is right on the ball. They have every right to refuse this gathering on their church grounds.



    So what? You're boasting in that Witchcraft has less rules? Are you kidding me? Most Christians would argue that God revealed to us these rules so as to protect us from the dangers of the world, and to keep us separate from certain worldly activities which could be to our detriment.



    I'm still not quite getting your point for two reasons.

    1) You haven't quite explained what Catholic priests do that is against Catholicism, apart from a lame excuse to say that being with gay people and prostitutes isn't acceptable. That isn't against Catholicism. Likewise, you go on about a cocktail. Drinking isn't forbidden in Christianity, drunkenness is. Hence they are perfectly fine doing this as long as they are careful.

    2) You assume that I think that priests are perfect. I don't. What I do think is the Church has every right to enforce their ethos concerning their property.



    The Church doesn't have to tolerate what it considers to be against their faith on their grounds. It's as simple as that.



    I'm still struggling to see the significance of this argument in this discussion so far.



    It's funny that you say this. It is entirely in keeping with the teachings of Christianity, Catholicism, and the Gospel to prohibit anything to do with witchcraft from their premises.



    Again, don't see the point with the above. Witchcraft was considered to be against Christianity in the first century also:





    This is utterly irrelevant to whether or not they have the right to refuse the use of their property based on their ethos.



    Are you suggesting that those who want to be in keeping with their faith aren't decent?

    Do the catholic church get Irony.....erm thats a no then:-)??
    My god you reply fast:-)!!
    I knew you couldn't keep away jackass you like me dont you;-)

    My argument.......... .i dont have one because i dont care .........i just have a great sense of humour and a great sense of fun:-)

    And i am just playing with you.

    To be honest i am surprised the hookers and daiquiri comment didnt give it away!:-)

    Thats the problem with the internet you can't sense my delicate withering humorous tone.

    No human being is decent .........that is what makes us interesting.

    I just dont get your logical linear analytical thought thingy........do i jackass;-)? Seriously dude humour ! IRONY!!!

    I keep digressing all over the place:-)

    Psst ...it is called FUN!

    All i am saying is what i would say to the church in general

    LIGHTEN UP!!

    Dont ever take anything i might say seriously .....its dangerous!

    Jeeze dude i cant believe you thought i was seriously suggesting something about the history of the relationship between the catholic church and witchcraft with the clipboard gag:-)

    DUDE !!!:-)

    GET OUT ITS A LOVELY AFTERNOON!!

    I hope someone is paying you to be at that computer!

    I cant believe you made all that serious bullet point critique to my schtick hun.

    Witchcraft has no rules dude just guidlines;-) ITS FANTASTIC!!:-)

    You dont see the point because you need to laugh!! AT ANY THING LAUGH AT US CRAZY PAGANS I DONT CARE JUST LAUGH!!!

    PLEASE!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    I just think it was merely petty of them and pettiness makes baby Jesus cry!

    And we all love baby Jesus!

    Or at least respect others right to do so:-)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    AAh SCREW ALL THIS ARSEING ABOUT :-)


    LE'TS JUST CURSE EM:-)


    LESS TALK MORE CURSEY CURSE

    MWAHAHAHAAH}:-) }:-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 135 ✭✭NeilJ


    I realise this discussion is probably dead at this point but I was just curious of one thing that is not explained in the article and I can't get the audio to work properly. Did the hall know that the hallowe'en party being organised was by a wiccan group before they cancelled the booking or after? That point does not come across at all and it seems to me quite likely that they may have not known at the time. Any time I have booked a hall for an event all that has been asked for is a name and phone number. If the hall did not know that the event was being organised by witches when they took the original book I think they were perfectly within their right to cancel the booking once they did find out.


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