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29-06-2020, 23:35   #31
liam7831
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Originally Posted by Darc19 View Post
Can't see anything there relevant to this thread. That's about landlords and letting agents.

Here the agent simply wants to see bona-fides of the viewer.

The agent is not looking for pps or addresses or bank accounts or utility bills and does not seem to be looking to hold the information.

So I can't see any gdpr issue.

At the same time, the agent shouldn't need to see the amount either and maybe the banks should have a letter that can be used which does not have any figures.
You can just cover the amount and scan letter then to EA no hassle I did it for a house fee months ago. Think it should be mandatory as at least your not bidding against a clown with no money then
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29-06-2020, 23:42   #32
bazwraf
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Seems ridiculous to me, and not something I'd been keen to offer up.
We bought our first house last year. At the start of the process, we organised viewings of a few houses within what we expected to be our price range. We hadn't even met a broker yet.
We wanted to get an idea, if nice houses existed within our price range, or whether we had better save for a longer period of time
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29-06-2020, 23:51   #33
Graham
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Originally Posted by Darc19 View Post
Can't see anything there relevant to this thread. That's about landlords and letting agents.

Here the agent simply wants to see bona-fides of the viewer.

The agent is not looking for pps or addresses or bank accounts or utility bills and does not seem to be looking to hold the information.

So I can't see any gdpr issue.
If I were an EA (I'm not), I'd be concerned about asking for AIP to facilitate viewings for 2 main DP reasons.

1) data minimisation. This requires that any personal data collected be adequate, relevant and, significant to this context.
2) consent. I don't think any consent given by an individual would be valid as there is an imbalance in power such that the consent is not freely given.

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As a general rule, the GDPR prescribes that if the data subject has no real choice, feels compelled to consent or will endure negative consequences if they do not consent, then consent will not be valid.
12 If consent is bundled up as a non-negotiable part of terms and conditions it is presumed not to have been freely given. Accordingly, consent will not be considered to be free if the data subject is unable to refuse or withdraw his or her consent without detriment.
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Article 7(4) GDPR indicates that, inter alia, the situation of “bundling” consent with acceptance of terms or conditions, or “tying” the provision of a contract or a service to a request for consent to process personal data that are not necessary for the performance of that contract or service, is considered highly undesirable. If consent is given in this situation, it is presumed to be not freely given (recital 43).
As AIP is clearly not necessary for the provision of the service (viewing a property), I would suggest tying the unnecessary provision of AIP leads to a presumption that consent has not been freely given.

Take away consent and necessity, I don't see what other provision an EA could rely on for collecting the data.

Last edited by Graham; 30-06-2020 at 00:09.
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30-06-2020, 08:38   #34
true-or-false
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Take away consent and necessity, I don't see what other provision an EA could rely on for collecting the data.
Surely the legal basis of processing they're relying on would be public interest/vital interest rather than consent? Limiting viewings to people who are ready to make a purchase is protecting the health of the EA, the viewer, and the public at large.

I do think evidence is a reasonable ask, as long as you dont have to provide the amount of the approval. It's definitely something people will lie about otherwise.
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30-06-2020, 08:53   #35
Graham
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Surely the legal basis of processing they're relying on would be public interest/vital interest rather than consent?
I'm not convinced to be honest:

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It is most relevant to public authorities, but it can apply to any organization that exercises official authority or carries out tasks in the public interest.
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The processing must be necessary. If the controller could reasonably perform the tasks or exercise its powers in a less intrusive way, this lawful basis does not apply.
If the public interest argument were to be relevant, one could argue supermarkets should be able to check your bank balance prior to you entering the store.
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30-06-2020, 09:01   #36
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Originally Posted by Graham View Post
If I were an EA (I'm not), I'd be concerned about asking for AIP to facilitate viewings for 2 main DP reasons.

1) data minimisation. This requires that any personal data collected be adequate, relevant and, significant to this context.
2) consent. I don't think any consent given by an individual would be valid as there is an imbalance in power such that the consent is not freely given.





As AIP is clearly not necessary for the provision of the service (viewing a property), I would suggest tying the unnecessary provision of AIP leads to a presumption that consent has not been freely given.

Take away consent and necessity, I don't see what other provision an EA could rely on for collecting the data.
What if it is a case of the vendor telling the EA that he/she doesn’t want tyre kickers and time wasters trawling around their property during Covid-19 times?
Does the vendor have the right to make this stipulation?
And if someone is not forthcoming with the information one will have to wait at the end of the line, or will not even get to see the property?
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30-06-2020, 09:05   #37
Graham
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What if it is a case of the vendor telling the EA that he/she doesn’t want tyre kickers and time wasters trawling around their property during Covid-19 times?
A vendor absolutely has a right to stipulate no viewings. I assume this can be done on a case-by-case basis.

I don't think a vendor has a right to instruct an EA to ignore DP regulations in order to collect data in order to decide who gets to view.
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30-06-2020, 10:55   #38
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Guys, this has been around for decades. Dodgy/poor EA's look for it, and fools hand it over.

Never, ever give the EA the Approval in Principle Letter, nor tell them the max you can afford. They are, quite literally, the last person who you should give this info to.

If they ask for it, simply say that you are "approved for the asking price". If they ask again/insist, inform them that you will not be proceeding due to their extremely unprofessional behavior. And, if you can, inform the seller.
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30-06-2020, 11:03   #39
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because of Covid, EAs can no longer do group viewings. In addition they now have to supply rinses and PPE to viewers. It is now not possible to offer every enquirer an appointment at an open viewing and sounding them out.
A viewing is now a significant overhead for an EA and it is reasonable to limit viewing to enquirers who have at least started the ball rolling with a bank and still have approval.
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30-06-2020, 11:10   #40
mariaalice
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Just blank oust the amount on the letter that is a given, I had an offer that never progressed on a house the EA told me about the offer and also said she won't follow through, the EA just knew, they have years of experience remember they are selling houses every day be we might only buy 1,2, or 3 houses in our life time.

Its also to the buyer advantage it says the buyer is serious.
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30-06-2020, 11:17   #41
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Originally Posted by dotsman View Post
Guys, this has been around for decades. Dodgy/poor EA's look for it, and fools hand it over.

Never, ever give the EA the Approval in Principle Letter, nor tell them the max you can afford. They are, quite literally, the last person who you should give this info to.

If they ask for it, simply say that you are "approved for the asking price". If they ask again/insist, inform them that you will not be proceeding due to their extremely unprofessional behavior. And, if you can, inform the seller.
Well isn't this the whole point of it - to get people who were never serious anyway to walk away and not attend the viewing. Thus saving the vendor and EA time and money, allowing people who are serious the opportunity to visit, reducing the potential spread of any infection and maybe even saving a few lives in the process.
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30-06-2020, 11:26   #42
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Well isn't this the whole point of it - to get people who were never serious anyway to walk away and not attend the viewing. Thus saving the vendor and EA time and money, allowing people who are serious the opportunity to visit, reducing the potential spread of any infection and maybe even saving a few lives in the process.
OP here - from my point of view, I have the AIP letter, can afford the house, am serious about buying, etc., but a demand to show the letter before they would even show me the house completely turned me off.

House viewings are part of the selling process. I did it, it's a pain, but you do it because you want to sell your house for the best possible price. You have to accept that some people will be there for a nose. Let's face it, Mary and John down the road are going to go online and look at your house pics when your house goes on the market.

With COVID likely to have an impact on the market for quite a while, EAs and sellers will need to adapt to suit the changing environment. Conduct virtual viewings if you are concerned about numbers of people entering your home. If the potential buyer is interested after virtually viewing, you should accept they are serious. But to demand AIPs before showing a house will turn a lot of people off.

Also, to note, I have viewed other houses recently. The EAs conducted a scheduled open day. People given a 15 minute slot and no brochures provided. Very well run and people are far more likely to be receptive to this.
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30-06-2020, 11:45   #43
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If the buyer was a cash buyer, would they be asked to show a bank statement showing their balance?

Proof of "approved for the asking" would seem like a reasonable type of document to produce in order to avail of a viewing, but sure what party is going to be up for doing that extra paperwork, and it would maybe cost the buyer money just to get that kind of letter from a solicitor, no?
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30-06-2020, 11:49   #44
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whether we had better save for a longer period of time
And you are exactly the kind of viewer the estate agent is trying to eliminate.

Because of covid they are limited in the number of viewings they can do, and there is more expense to doing them.
So of course they are only want to show to people who can actually buy.

Don't get me wrong I understand your point of view that you want to view houses to start getting an idea, I did the same myself 3 years ago.
But we still have a global pandemic going on.
Its no different to the way shops are discouraging browsing, its just EA's have a way of actually checking if someone has the money and so is a serious buyer.

Personally I don't see an issue with it, its crappy but I understand their point of view. I also don't see it as a GDPR issue, in order to effectively run their business and carry out as many relevant viewings as possible they need to filter tyre kickers and this is a way that allows them, it is a legitimate business usage. (Caveat, I'm no expert on GDPR but neither are the majority of people here).
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30-06-2020, 12:01   #45
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Originally Posted by random_banter View Post
If the buyer was a cash buyer, would they be asked to show a bank statement showing their balance?

Proof of "approved for the asking" would seem like a reasonable type of document to produce in order to avail of a viewing, but sure what party is going to be up for doing that extra paperwork, and it would maybe cost the buyer money just to get that kind of letter from a solicitor, no?
Generally you just get a solicitors letter stating that you have sufficient funds to meet the purchase price. There's not really paperwork involved. You show solicitor proof of funds, they write a pretty standard letter.
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