Boards.ie uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Click here to find out more x
Thread Closed  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
04-01-2020, 09:43   #61
The_Conductor
Moderator
 
The_Conductor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 29,341
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2lazytogetup View Post
Prices of houses have been dropping alot more without people realising or the statistics properly showing.

This is due to a higher proportion of new houses on the market.
As a proportion of sales- new homes have a smaller slice of the pie since anytime in the last decade. They comprise less than 20% of all sales- and as a percentage this proportion is falling. Your hypothesis does not hold.
The_Conductor is offline  
Thanks from:
Advertisement
04-01-2020, 19:03   #62
ittakestwo
Registered User
 
ittakestwo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 550
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Conductor View Post
As a proportion of sales- new homes have a smaller slice of the pie since anytime in the last decade. They comprise less than 20% of all sales- and as a percentage this proportion is falling. Your hypothesis does not hold.
looking at the figures posted already 2018 and 2019 had the highest percentage of new sales since 2010. Still only about 20% but around 2012 to 2015 the figure was 15%
ittakestwo is online now  
Thanks from:
04-01-2020, 19:10   #63
Dolbhad
Registered User
 
Dolbhad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 574
Quote:
Originally Posted by ittakestwo View Post
looking at the figures posted already 2018 and 2019 had the highest percentage of new sales in the last 10 years. still only about 20% but around 2014/15 the figure was less than 15%
And new builds do seem to still be going up in price on each phase (unlike second hand houses). I’m waiting for a phase 2 in an estate in Cork to be released which I expect in next 2 months. It will be interesting to see what the price increase will be. I do know what the figure was for phase 1 in the house type I’m looking at. That builder had gone up 15k between phases in other estates they did in last two years. And still have one or two of heir most expensive houses in phase 1 still available.
Dolbhad is offline  
06-01-2020, 09:21   #64
JamesMason
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 152
https://www.independent.ie/business/...-38836298.html
Also
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...rall-1.4130984
The slowdown looks official now
JamesMason is offline  
06-01-2020, 09:59   #65
Marius34
Registered User
 
Marius34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMason View Post
The property price slowdown looks official. But the articles is abit of a joke.. "Sales of houses and apartments fall 4% overall", "almost two-thirds of counties are expected to have experienced a downturn in property sales when figures are finalised". Check again by the end of January, and you will realise that the actual numbers will be very different.. it's just around half of December sales has been added on PPR.
Marius34 is offline  
Thanks from:
Advertisement
06-01-2020, 14:12   #66
Graham
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,870
"Home sales 'tumble' 3.9% before sales for the remaining 3.85% of the year are recorded" isn't nearly hysterical enough as a headline.
Graham is offline  
Thanks from:
06-01-2020, 14:30   #67
Zenify
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
"Home sales 'tumble' 3.9% before sales for the remaining 3.85% of the year are recorded" isn't nearly hysterical enough as a headline.
Would the end of December usually equate to that %of home sales for the year? I didn't see anything happening at the end of December.
Zenify is offline  
06-01-2020, 14:41   #68
SozBbz
Registered User
 
SozBbz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 1,861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenify View Post
Would the end of December usually equate to that %of home sales for the year? I didn't see anything happening at the end of December.
Surely things still complete in December, sales that began in Sept, Oct and November.

Agree, nothing much new happens in December, but whats recorded is completions, not properties going sale agreed. As such, I'd nearly expect Jan and Feb to the the quietest months for completion.
SozBbz is offline  
06-01-2020, 19:27   #69
Marius34
Registered User
 
Marius34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenify View Post
Would the end of December usually equate to that %of home sales for the year? I didn't see anything happening at the end of December.
Historically December has the highest number of completed sales. Especially new build, as for various reasons there is interest to complete sale before the end of the year. For some properties it takes time to be added to the Property register database, so we can't really know the numbers for December until at least till the end of January. But in general, based on previous 11 months, sales for 2019 should be higher than 2018.
Marius34 is offline  
Advertisement
07-01-2020, 10:14   #70
tobsey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,082
Quote:
Originally Posted by GetWithIt View Post
I bought my home in 2013. If I’d bought it purely as an investment I’d sell in 2020. Not because of Brexit, supply concerns or even global warming. I’d sell because anyone who bought in 2012, 2013 and 2014 received an exemption for Capital Gains if the property was held for 7 years.

In a flat, or even a slowly rising market, I’d be losing money as the extra ordinary tax free gains start attracting Capital Gains.
I'm sure you're right that a lot of investment properties are being sold for that reason, but how would they be losing money from now? CGT I presume is only payable on the increase from on the value going forward 7 years after purchase. So if the property was 200k, now worth 300k, then CGT is payable on any increase above 300k I'd have thought? I know if the value is rising slowly then there isn't much of a return, but with rental yields so high they wouldn't need much appreciation in value. The 300k property would have a pre-tax yield of 7-8% or so. You wouldn't get that yield anywhere else. Even if it was a buy-to-let mortgage that would be for a max of 160k, paying 5% on that wouldn't hit the yield too bad.

If they sell, what would they reinvest in to get gains close to that? You could try the markets, but they can go down too.

Last edited by tobsey; 07-01-2020 at 10:21.
tobsey is offline  
07-01-2020, 10:21   #71
mariaalice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham View Post
"Home sales 'tumble' 3.9% before sales for the remaining 3.85% of the year are recorded" isn't nearly hysterical enough as a headline.
It very hard to tell what is happening, if prices along the Luas green line or similar very desirable areas were majorly droping that would be saying something about the property market, it's not talking about it sold for 580k last year and the same house is 570k this year.

There are dozens of property markets, not just one.
mariaalice is offline  
07-01-2020, 10:36   #72
AlmightyCushion
Moderator
 
AlmightyCushion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 29,769
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobsey View Post
I'm sure you're right that a lot of investment properties are being sold for that reason, but how would they be losing money from now? CGT I presume is only payable on the increase from on the value going forward 7 years after purchase. So if the property was 200k, now worth 300k, then CGT is payable on any increase above 300k I'd have thought? I know if the value is rising slowly then there isn't much of a return, but with rental yields so high they wouldn't need much appreciation in value. The 300k property would have a pre-tax yield of 7-8% or so. You wouldn't get that yield anywhere else. Even if it was a buy-to-let mortgage that would be for a max of 160k, paying 5% on that wouldn't hit the yield too bad.

If they sell, what would they reinvest in to get gains close to that? You could try the markets, but they can go down too.
I could be wrong but I believe the CGT exemption is a use it or lose it type of thing. If they sell this year they get the 100k and pay no CGT, if they sell next year and the value goes up 10k, then they pay CGT on the whole 110k increase in value. In that case, they would lose money by not selling now. It would be better for them to sell the place and buy a similar property for the same money instead of keeping it as that way they lock in the CGT exemption.
AlmightyCushion is offline  
Thanks from:
07-01-2020, 10:37   #73
Buttonftw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 20,396
I'm hoping to buy this year and it'll have to be a second-hand job.
More than likely I won't be able to buy something turn-key. I'm fine with doing some work but I only want to do work that is putting stuff in, not taking stuff out. I can paint it myself. I have mates who can lift stuff, I can get tiling done very cheap, same with plumbing.
I imagine the worry for people buying a fixer-upper would be along the lines of mine: How much? As soon as you start making structural or large changes it opens a can of worms. Moving a radiator can be a small job but what if it isn't? Something goes wrong and you have to get someone else in and hand over 100 quid for them to tell you who you need.
While there is an element of time/ability I think the potential cost and tight margins when getting a mortgage may be the bigger issue with people wanting somewhere they can more or less move straight into.
Buttonftw is online now  
07-01-2020, 10:41   #74
Graham
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariaalice View Post
It very hard to tell what is happening, if prices along the Luas green line or similar very desirable areas were majorly droping that would be saying something about the property market, it's not talking about it sold for 580k last year and the same house is 570k this year.

There are dozens of property markets, not just one.
The percentages refer to volume of sales rather than value.
Graham is offline  
07-01-2020, 11:35   #75
cruizer101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmightyCushion View Post
I could be wrong but I believe the CGT exemption is a use it or lose it type of thing. If they sell this year they get the 100k and pay no CGT, if they sell next year and the value goes up 10k, then they pay CGT on the whole 110k increase in value. In that case, they would lose money by not selling now. It would be better for them to sell the place and buy a similar property for the same money instead of keeping it as that way they lock in the CGT exemption.
Relief over 7 years is on a proportion basis, here is example, taken from here

Example: Property acquired on 1 March 2012 for €500,000 and sold on 2 March
2022 for €800,000 – i.e. property owned for a full 10 years.
Gain of €300,000 is partially relieved:
Gain €300,000
Less Relief 300,000 x 7/10 €210,000
Chargeable Gain € 90,000


So while there may be some incentive to dispose of the property its not a use it or lose it case where you have to sell by specific date or lose out.
cruizer101 is offline  
(2) thanks from:
Thread Closed

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search