Random Running Questions

rom wrote: »

Its best drank cold. Its fine to get used to when cold. Warm its hard to take.

If you juice it yourself its very nice with apple and a little piece of root ginger.

wrstan wrote: »

Sorry for such an elementary question, do you cook the beetroot before you juice it?

Runners World suggests a juice of beetroot, pears, ginger and cucumber:

I juice it raw, I peel it first. Lot of juicing talk going on, mods will be in soon.

conavitzky wrote: »

I was just thinking what is the optimum training mileage for distances ranging from 5k-half marathon. I have been training consistently enough for a year now at around 70-80k/week and have started seeing good returns. There is obviously a bunch of folks on here who are doing serious mileage (KC, Stazza, T-runner being examples) I often wondered where is the break point. Where is the point of diminishing returns from the experience of runners on here? At what point should you introduce double days (or treble days-Stazza ya lunatic take a bow!) At what point does the risk of injury outweigh the possible gains to be made? It is obviously different for everyone. Would be interesting to see what it generally is across the spectrum on Boards.
Another question I have is:
Why do/dont do a marathon - what are the pros and cons? (I have been running a few years now and have only run one half last year 1hr 29mins and swore after that I would never run a marathon. Instead concentrating on getting better at 5-10k. I now have this itch to do one and am unsure what to do. I would love to try one but think the mileage would break me leaving me unable to do any running!)

More is not not always better. You also need to focus on quality. Running mile after mile is going to do little help. P+D says you should only bring in doubles over 70 miles and with my last program I am in agreement. You have more time to recover from 1x10M than 2x5M for example. treble days are simply madness. I am yet to a plan that has given good results that has them. Perhaps if you can sleep the rest of the day but most on here can't do that. I know runners at sub 2:40 standard that do around 50 miles a week. structure is very important on how you run. More miles does not mean faster times always.

Personally after training close to 7 days a week for the last year I am going back to 6 days. Not that I don't want to train 7but I do need recovery and it does help me.

Re a marathon. Its a person thing but many including myself get caught up in the romantic notion of it while at the end of the day its just a distance like no other. Running a marathon while you have not time to develop your speed which most inclining myself has done is a bad idea. It makes reaching full potential harder as you are going from marathon cycle to marathon cycle. Personally I am going to focus on the short stuff for a while now as plodding a marathon is something that does not interest me now.

Chances are you will be that your first marathon if you choose to go that route will be a big learning experience. I suppose many like the big day. People outside of athletics know that its hard when they have not idea what a good 5k time is. There is a bit of that in it. It is not the end all and be all.

conavitzky wrote: »

I was just thinking what is the optimum training mileage for distances ranging from 5k-half marathon. I have been training consistently enough for a year now at around 70-80k/week and have started seeing good returns. There is obviously a bunch of folks on here who are doing serious mileage (KC, Stazza, T-runner being examples) I often wondered where is the break point. Where is the point of diminishing returns from the experience of runners on here? At what point should you introduce double days (or treble days-Stazza ya lunatic take a bow!) At what point does the risk of injury outweigh the possible gains to be made? It is obviously different for everyone. Would be interesting to see what it generally is across the spectrum on Boards.

Max mileage is just that... Max mileage. It is not sustained mileage. While I have peaked at 100mpw, my average over my last two marathon plans has been 80-85 miles per week. But as you correctly pointed out conavitzky, the stimulus required for each runner (and for each distance) is different. For rom's buddy, 50 mpw may be all he ever needs to break 2:40. For me, breaking 2:40 took a lot more miles, but then I may not have been running for as long as rom's buddy (or have the same history of physical activity). Having done it a couple of times now, perhaps I wouldn't need quite the same level of mileage, as those adaptations will still be in place, and maybe 50mpw would be enough?

The 5k plan I'm following also peaked at 100mpw (for just two weeks, during the base building phase) so mileage isn't always tied to race distances in a manner you'd expect. The problem is that trial and error seems to be the only way of determining what the right mileage is for you. Enough that you keep making progress, but not so much that you risk over-training, injury or feeling stale. How's that for a completely non-useful response!

rom wrote: »

More is not not always better. You also need to focus on quality. Running mile after mile is going to do little help. P+D says you should only bring in doubles over 70 miles and with my last program I am in agreement. You have more time to recover from 1x10M than 2x5M for example. treble days are simply madness. I am yet to a plan that has given good results that has them. Perhaps if you can sleep the rest of the day but most on here can't do that. I know runners at sub 2:40 standard that do around 50 miles a week. structure is very important on how you run. More miles does not mean faster times always.

Personally after training close to 7 days a week for the last year I am going back to 6 days. Not that I don't want to train 7but I do need recovery and it does help me.

Re a marathon. Its a person thing but many including myself get caught up in the romantic notion of it while at the end of the day its just a distance like no other. Running a marathon while you have not time to develop your speed which most inclining myself has done is a bad idea. It makes reaching full potential harder as you are going from marathon cycle to marathon cycle. Personally I am going to focus on the short stuff for a while now as plodding a marathon is something that does not interest me now.

Chances are you will be that your first marathon if you choose to go that route will be a big learning experience. I suppose many like the big day. People outside of athletics know that its hard when they have not idea what a good 5k time is. There is a bit of that in it. It is not the end all and be all.

Thanks for reply ROM.I think Im suffering from the lemming effect. Where I live everyone and their dog are at marathons and just wondering what the fuss is about. No doubt there is a serious buzz completing one. Think I will do the same as you and keep it short. Might throw in another half this year and see how Im progressing at that distance first.

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

It's true that you won't be as prepared for running 5k races as when you are training specifically for a 5k, but there is no reason to believe that you cannot make 5k gains while training for a marathon. The endurance (and speed endurance) gains, definitely lend themselves to the 5k distance also (though obviously you'd be missing some of the sharpness you get from 5k specific training). I'm not in the least trying to persuade you to train for a marathon, by the way, just talking hypothetically. Having spent the last 20.5 weeks training for 5ks, I have a new-found respect for anyone that focusses on the shorter distances and continues to improve. If you find that you begin to stale at the shorter distances though, it would certainly be worth your while trying something different, whether that is targeting even shorter distances, or marathon distances.

As for my own 5k progress, committing to 21 weeks was always a means to an end, and the goal was always to build speed heading into another marathon cycle. It's not beyond the realms of possibility that I might improve my 5k time during the marathon program, as it's a tough progressive plan. Marathon programs shouldn't be about long slow runs, where you lose your sharpness, but rather focussing on specific patterns and efficiencies that allow you to carry speed over a longer distance.

+1 to this.
I've never specifically trained for a 5k (or any shorter distances), but have improved my 5k time by almost 90 seconds in the space of four months off the back of marathon training.

Ososlo wrote: »

- Does anyone else feel that the majority of people posting in this forum are middle-class? Is running more of a middle-class activity?

1. How do you define class? Does a college education make you middle class? Aren't you working class if you have to work for a living?
2. If the majority of people posting on this forum are 'middle class', maybe its because spending a lot of time on a discussion forum talking about your hobby is a middle class thing, not because running is.

LaHaine wrote: »

What causes runners trots? Any known food types that exacerbate it? Anything to avoid?

I have never found a link between what I eat and what is likely to cause digestive problems. I do try to avoid spicy or creamy food in the hours leading up to a run. Coffee is definitely my friend though as it helps to 'get ready' before a run. I always try to evacuate the tubes before heading off (and bring some paper just in case. It saves on gloves and socks. ).

walshb wrote: »

What is the best time to eat before a 5k or upwards race? 1 hrs/2 hrs?? And approximately how much (calories)?

l suppose it varies for everyone. I have found that I perform better at 5k and 10k distance if I eat and hydrate well in the days before. If the race is early 12 to 2 pm I will only have two slices of toast with nutella at about 7 or 8 am and wont eat til after the race. I perform better feeling empty. If an evening race I will survive on small quantities of porridge toast and bananas throughout day at regular intervals. I also limit my fluid intake to next to nothing as I suffered really badly with side stitches in the past. I think only you can find out what works best for you through experimentation. In my case eating to close to the race equals bloated feeling, stitch and no enjoyment.

Thanks guys. Sage advice!

conavitzky wrote: »

I have a 10k race on Saturday at 7.30pm. I also have a remembrance cycle over 30k that morning. I am bearing in mind that its a leisure cycle.
. Am I mad to do the race? Coach says go for 2 mile run after cycling to stretch out the legs. What drop in performance would be expected? Have dabbled in the dark art of triathlon about 5 years ago and hated running off the bike!

I suppose it depends on how much a 30K leisure cycle takes out of you. For someone not used to it (like me) I'd me fecked and would expect it to add 10%.

The obvious question is why do both, remembrance cycle ok maybe personal reasons but why do the 10K? There will be another one along anytime you want. If you are thinking of Road Race League points then its best 6 events, isn't it? On the other hand if you do both you might be kn@ckered for the 5K next week which means you won't be in front of me, which is a good thing, so go ahead.

I'd also think a few strides at 10K pace would be better for loosening out the legs than a 2 mile run.

ThisRegard wrote: »

Horses for courses, I often take a bowl of weetabix as a pre race meal and don't have issues.

I agree. Every body can be different.

To improve your 5 k race time can you do this just as effectively by doing training runs of no more than 5 k? Or do you have to do longer training runs?

Same with 1500 runners. Do they need to do do more than 1500 meters when they train?

Not talking about jogs of more than 1500/5000, but actual quality runs of more than 1500 or 5000.

walshb wrote: »

To improve your 5 k race time can you do this just as effectively by doing training runs of no more than 5 k? Or do you have to do longer training runs?

Same with 1500 runners. Do they need to do do more than 1500 meters when they train?

Not talking about jogs of more than 1500/5000, but actual quality runs of more than 1500 or 5000.

5K and 1500m runners will do much more than race distance in training.
Take Krusty's log as a good example of someone putting in hard miles for 5K specific training.
Even a 1500 specialist will do 15-25 mins at Lactate Threshold pace during base training.
In pre-competition they will do some miles at 5K-10K pace.
Depending on the coach (or plan) in competition phase they will do less over-distance work but may still do something like 20 min LT pace.
In both cases, although they will include some recovery runs (jogs) much of their 50+ weekly mileage will be at a steady (aerobic) pace.