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08-11-2020, 20:18   #136
ILoveYourVibes
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Also when ASKED about your profession ..you omit the article...however

I was saying I had been A doctor.


Not i am a doctor.
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08-11-2020, 20:19   #137
ILoveYourVibes
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Originally Posted by mistersifter View Post
La puerta fue abierta...not abiertO

This is a passive use of 'ser' and the example is misleading in the context of our previous discussion, which was dealing with a fundamental explanation of ser/estar (mostly used in an active sense).

Passive use is not something you would explain to students early on, unless you wanted to confuse the shít out of them.

However, if you do want to go down this route , you should explain the passive voice more clearly.

"La puerta fue abierta" sounds deliberately confusing.

This example would be a clearer explanation of what's happening.

1. "Mi hermano abrió la puerta" = my brother opened the door.

2. "La puerta fue abierta por mi hermano" = the door was opened by my brother.


Also saying i am a doctor.

Is differnt to .. i have been /had been a doctor. You DO use the article then.

Also when the profession begins with certain letters you use it.


Soy una profesora de espanol muy buena. Is correct. Soy profesora de espanol muy buena is not.


And its not really a rule ...just something you hear frequently.

I had said twice before about the passive voice.

And as a teacher you should know it.


Why would it take you so long to recognize la puerta fue abierta?

Suddenly i post you a picture and you get it?

Last edited by ILoveYourVibes; 08-11-2020 at 20:24.
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08-11-2020, 20:31   #138
ILoveYourVibes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistersifter View Post
La puerta fue abierta...not abiertO

This is a passive use of 'ser' and the example is misleading in the context of our previous discussion, which was dealing with a fundamental explanation of ser/estar (mostly used in an active sense).

Passive use is not something you would explain to students early on, unless you wanted to confuse the shít out of them.

However, if you do want to go down this route , you should explain the passive voice more clearly.

"La puerta fue abierta" sounds deliberately confusing.

This example would be a clearer explanation of what's happening.


1. "Mi hermano abrió la puerta" = my brother opened the door.

2. "La puerta fue abierta por mi hermano" = the door was opened by my brother. (passive)

I literally TOLD you it was the passive voice.

I wasn't talking to a student i was taking to a supposed spanish teacher.

Who can't even post what he wants to say in spanish.

Also i have shown you Ser feliz SEVERAL times now.

Soy correcta ....ser.

Last edited by ILoveYourVibes; 08-11-2020 at 20:35.
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08-11-2020, 20:34   #139
mistersifter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveYourVibes View Post
Also saying i am a doctor.

Is differnt to .. i have been /had been a doctor. You DO use the article then.

Also when the profession begins with certain letters you use it.


Soy una profesora de espanol muy buena. Is correct. Soy profesora de espanol muy buena is not.
Using the article in front of a profession may not be technically incorrect. But it sounds very strange and is not how native speakers talk most of the time. This is what I said in my original point.

To be honest, I think you are trying your best to be pedantic.

This would be fine if you had a decent level of Spanish, but literally every sentence you have written here has very basic errors in it.

So rather than deliberately being a smartass and trying to pick technical holes in explanations that most learners find very useful, you should focus on improving your own basic command of the language. Especially if you want to advise people on how to learn it.

You have been on this thread for a while singing your own praises about your level of Spanish, but you have a lower intermediate level (at best) given the frequent errors with gender and your lack of command of the present subjunctive.

Anything you say about learning the language needs to be taken with a very large pinch of salt.
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08-11-2020, 20:56   #140
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May I pm you instead of just posting here its got to be annoying for others?
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08-11-2020, 21:20   #141
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[QUOTE=ILoveYourVibes;115227269].
Quote:
Soy una profesora de español muy buena....They do if the job has an adjective added on to it.
This was one of the points I made to you earlier.

Quote:
I wasn't originally trying to be pedantic. I may have gotten sucked in to that now.
You came out with some childish nonsense like "sorry but my spanish is better than yours" . I had no choice but to subsequently point out your many, many basic errors.

Having Spanish conversations is against charter AFAIK. I would offer to PM you via Spanish if you like but you seem a bit loca.

Quote:
I am totally comfortable with the present subjunctive. I can always improve
You're not comfortable with it. You misused it in a very basic way earlier when you failed to realise that "querer que" triggers the subjunctive. You also misunderstand the meaning of the verb 'significar'.

Quote:
You have got to be literally the WORST pettiest teacher i have come across
From the word go, you were trying to poke holes in what were merely general (and very commonly used) explanations of certain grammatical concepts. And you were emphasising exceptions to rules with a smart-ass tone to big yourself up. So of course I called you out on your mistakes.

Quote:
Please don't tell me you did spanish in ucd i was thinking of going there
You sound like a bit of a head the ball here to be honest. I have never set foot in UCD, thank god.

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Do you get students into your class with this attitude? Bullying
You're resorting to desperate measures now with the bullying accusations, so I'll leave it at this.
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08-11-2020, 21:26   #142
ILoveYourVibes
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[QUOTE=mistersifter;115227822]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveYourVibes View Post
.



You came out with some childish nonsense like "sorry but my spanish is better than yours" . I had no choice but to subsequently point out your many, many basic errors.

s.
This is fair.


I deserve this. I shouldn't have said that.

Sorry i didn't realize spanish was against the charter. I started a whole practise your spanish thread and no one said anything.


Friends?

Im sorry.

Oh and yes i would LOVE to prove i am not loca and message you in spanish

I would be honored.


Sorry no more spanish in here then ..i didn't know.

Sorry mods.
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08-11-2020, 21:36   #143
mistersifter
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[QUOTE=ILoveYourVibes;115227897]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistersifter View Post
This is fair.


I deserve this. I shouldn't have said that.

Sorry i didn't realize spanish was against the charter. I started a whole practise your spanish thread and no one said anything.


Friends?

Im sorry.

Oh and yes i would LOVE to prove i am not loca and message you in spanish

I would be honored.


Sorry no more spanish in here then ..i didn't know.

Sorry mods.
I'm happy to speak about Spanish to anyone and I'm not averse to learning myself.

Send a PM if you like.

by the way, I wasn't being serious with the loca bit
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09-11-2020, 01:21   #144
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Mods/Anyone actually trying to learn Spanish, ignore pretty much anytime iloveyourvibes says. He's shown himself to not have a clue what he's talking about on any number of occasions on this thread. Talking about "Catalan Spanish" (which he magically understands), talking about "never writing with accents" (accents can fundamentally change the meaning of words and this sentences) etc. Do not follow this guy's advice.
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09-11-2020, 12:52   #145
mistersifter
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Despite our disagreement yesterday, Vibes did make an interesting point regarding the passive use of ser. Unfortunately, an interesting conversation got lost in a silly back and forth between us. But we're friends now, so let's look at it logically without egos (my own included)

I imagine not many people are particularly interested in the differences between ser and estar, but for any potential Spanish grammar nerds out there, here is what I hope is a clearer explanation of some of the topics discussed yesterday.

The passive use of ser does not contradict the common explanation that 'ser' (verb meaning 'to be') is used to express permanent qualities, while 'estar' (to be) is used to express more temporary qualities. There are exceptions to this rule, but I believe that the passive 'ser' is not one such exception.

The best way I can explain this is with examples:

1. La empresa fue fundada por John Doe [The company was founded by John Doe].

- Firstly, this sentence is passive because we're not saying "John Doe founded the company", we're saying "the company was founded by John Doe".

- Most importantly, we are expressing a permanent characteristic here. In other words, the company will ALWAYS have been founded by John Doe. This is not going to change. It's a fact. The company in a permanent state of HAVING BEEN FOUNDED by John Doe.


Now, apply this logic to the more confusing passive phrase in the book posted by Vibes.

2. La puerta fue abierta por John Doe. (I'm adding 'por John Doe' for clarity)

- This sentence is also passive because we are saying "the door was opened by John Doe" as opposed to "John Doe opened the door".

- In the same vein as the first example above, we are expressing a permanent state. In other words, 'the door having been opened by John Doe' is never going to change. It was opened by him. It will always have been opened by him. You cannot change history.

- This is not the same as using estar to say "la puerta estaba abierta" [the door was open]. In this case, the door was in a temporarily open state which was liable to change quite easily and presumably was closed at some point in time. It is a volatile characteristic we're expressing here, so this use of 'estar' fits in with the common explanation mentioned earlier.

This is a very interesting example and a riddle of sorts. The reason it is confusing is because 'abierta' can mean either 'open' or 'opened'. And when we think of doors being open, we naturally assume temporariness.

It is an interesting observation and I enjoyed thinking about it (sad, I know).

So, thanks to Vibes for bringing it up.
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09-11-2020, 16:45   #146
ILoveYourVibes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EagererBeaver View Post
Mods/Anyone actually trying to learn Spanish, ignore pretty much anytime iloveyourvibes says. He's shown himself to not have a clue what he's talking about on any number of occasions on this thread. Talking about "Catalan Spanish" (which he magically understands), talking about "never writing with accents" (accents can fundamentally change the meaning of words and this sentences) etc. Do not follow this guy's advice.
I am female.

Good to meet you again.

I NEVER said catalan spanish. I said there was a high degree of mutual intelligibility with catalan and spanish. Which there is.

Just like there is a high degree of mutual ineligibility between Spanish and Italian or Portuguese and Spanish.

And its not magic that I can talk to my portguese friends in spanish and be understood.

Its not magic i can understand a lot of catalan. There is also a lot I CANT understand. Its just INTERESTING.

Yes accents do change words and i SHOULD use them. However often i don't and native speakers don't seem to have an issue with understanding me. But YES its a bad habit i have.

Last edited by ILoveYourVibes; 09-11-2020 at 17:14.
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09-11-2020, 17:12   #147
ILoveYourVibes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistersifter View Post
Despite our disagreement yesterday, Vibes did make an interesting point regarding the passive use of ser. Unfortunately, an interesting conversation got lost in a silly back and forth between us. But we're friends now, so let's look at it logically without egos (my own included)

I imagine not many people are particularly interested in the differences between ser and estar, but for any potential Spanish grammar nerds out there, here is what I hope is a clearer explanation of some of the topics discussed yesterday.

The passive use of ser does not contradict the common explanation that 'ser' (verb meaning 'to be') is used to express permanent qualities, while 'estar' (to be) is used to express more temporary qualities. There are exceptions to this rule, but I believe that the passive 'ser' is not one such exception.

The best way I can explain this is with examples:

1. La empresa fue fundada por John Doe [The company was founded by John Doe].

- Firstly, this sentence is passive because we're not saying "John Doe founded the company", we're saying "the company was founded by John Doe".

- Most importantly, we are expressing a permanent characteristic here. In other words, the company will ALWAYS have been founded by John Doe. This is not going to change. It's a fact. The company in a permanent state of HAVING BEEN FOUNDED by John Doe.


Now, apply this logic to the more confusing passive phrase in the book posted by Vibes.

2. La puerta fue abierta por John Doe. (I'm adding 'por John Doe' for clarity)

- This sentence is also passive because we are saying "the door was opened by John Doe" as opposed to "John Doe opened the door".

- In the same vein as the first example above, we are expressing a permanent state. In other words, 'the door having been opened by John Doe' is never going to change. It was opened by him. It will always have been opened by him. You cannot change history.

- This is not the same as using estar to say "la puerta estaba abierta" [the door was open]. In this case, the door was in a temporarily open state which was liable to change quite easily and presumably was closed at some point in time. It is a volatile characteristic we're expressing here, so this use of 'estar' fits in with the common explanation mentioned earlier.

This is a very interesting example and a riddle of sorts. The reason it is confusing is because 'abierta' can mean either 'open' or 'opened'. And when we think of doors being open, we naturally assume temporariness.

It is an interesting observation and I enjoyed thinking about it (sad, I know).

So, thanks to Vibes for bringing it up.
Hi misters sifter Very interesting!


I think of ser for qualities about a person ....soy rubia

But estar for things about them that are not apart of them ...esta muerto...he is dead ....but he is not death.

Era hecho de oro. It was made of gold. Es un silla. Es de madera.


BUT and you can correct me if i am wrong.

https://www.spanishdict.com/translat...is%20made%20of

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Está hecho de madera ..
Este es un buen cuchillo está hecho de acero. This is a good knife it is made of steel.

Está preperado con ingrediantes exclusivamente ecológicos.

Está hecho de y está preparado con seem to be exceptions....but it could be a mistake...maybe the concept is being made of something ...an action ..even if its done ..dunno ..

Está comes from the verb estar ...BUT ...unless they have just mistakenly put the accent there on the site and they mean esta ..
But i think they use native speakers.

Have i misunderstood something??

But deffo ser vrs estar is the hardest thing for me

I am reading a book by laura gallego right now ..keeps throwing me for a loop ...but she could be making it a dialect ..

Mister sifter you and me good we besties

besos!

Eager beaver ..we good too ..its good to have these convos ..it means we can learn. I make mistakes ALL the time. Its fun to make mistakes even more fun than getting it right

Last edited by ILoveYourVibes; 09-11-2020 at 17:32.
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09-11-2020, 17:33   #148
Bob Harris
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILoveYourVibes View Post
Hi misters sifter

BUT and you can correct me if i am wrong.

https://www.spanishdict.com/translat...is%20made%20of

Shows
Está hecho de madera ..
Este es un buen cuchillo está hecho de acero. This is a good knife it is made of steel.

Está preperado con ingrediantes exclusivamente ecológicos.

Está hecho de y está preparado con seem to be exceptions....but it could be a mistake

Está comes from the verb estar ...BUT ...unless they have just mistakenly put the accent there on the site and they mean esta ..
But i think they use native speakers.

Have i misunderstood something??
The accent should be there, it's correct. In any case if it was 'esta' the sentence wouldn't make much sense. There's an awful lot of overthinking going on in here!
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09-11-2020, 17:37   #149
ILoveYourVibes
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Originally Posted by Bob Harris View Post
The accent should be there, it's correct. In any case if it was 'esta' the sentence wouldn't make much sense. There's an awful lot of overthinking going on in here!
I agree. We are over thinking. actually i am just over thinking I DO THIS TOO MUCH.

We need our own thread guys SER vrs ESTAR!

You are all invited.

I promise to be more humble and not so insufferable in the SER vrs Estar thread.

Also think a thread on interwebs terms in spanish would be useful for me right now. I am sure they don't call a thread un hilo??

I am ordering stuff from spanish websites so it would be useful!

Last edited by ILoveYourVibes; 09-11-2020 at 17:43.
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09-11-2020, 17:42   #150
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I'm sorry, I'm done reading your waffle but I can't let you away with the nonsense about Catalan. You do not understand it. If two natives were having a conversation in it, you wouldn't have the foggiest what they were talking about. A Spaniard with no previous exposure to Catalan would not be able to follow a natural conversation between two natives. Picking up a few words here and there is not mutual intelligibility. Being able to recognise the same or similar words on a page is not mutual intelligibility. I know this, and have stated this on numerous occasions, due to the fact I live and work in Barcelona with Catalans (obviously), Spaniards (obviously) and a whole host of people from other nationalities who speak Spanish and not Catalan. My daughter was born in a Barcelona hospital. I have two sisters in law from Donostia and Tenerife respectively. I am qualified to comment on this matter. You are not, and your continued insistence that you know what you're talking about does a disservice to anyone on the thread thinking of learning Spanish.

The reason Catalan came up in the first place months ago was in response to someone joking about going to Barcelona or Bilbao to learn Spanish and I raised the point that while it would be perfectly fine to do so, the presence of Catalan signage etc was something that could not be ignored
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