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Can one be a cultural Wiccan?

  • 04-04-2009 11:58pm
    #1
    Otaku Girl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 145 ✭✭


    So,is it possible for one to be a practising Wiccan for cultural reasons,i.e. sense of community,love of nature,tradtion,mythology ect or would I have to believe in any of the supernatural elements.I'm an atheist so anything supernatural is out for me.

    Thanks.


Comments

  • #2
    Lou.m
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    IT is an interesting question:-)

    I think being interested in nature word be more in the lines of nature worship.

    But i am not ruling it out each to their own.:)

    Everyone is free to believe in whatever they feel.

    I would be puzzled as to why an atheist would practise .....but i would not be against it outright or anything.

    IT is not necessary to be wiccan to take part in the wider community out there or to appreciate mythology.

    If you wanted to take part in ritual it would depend on whether or not you wanted to go it alone or with others.

    Alone you can practise what you want in a way that feels right for you.

    With others it depends on them too and the tradition most pagan traditions have a deep spiritual aspect and a supernatural aspect, those you were working with might feel something was MISSING.

    Witchcraft or involved working towards a goal and the belief that energy can be raised towards that goal. I dont know what this would mean for your beliefs.

    Wicca IS a term used for a lot of diff forms of witchcraft where there is goddess and god worship and invocation and the celebration of fertility.

    Now what this means to different people within the pagan community is varied some belief that the ceremony and path and learning is all supposed to bring out the best in you and that is the god element and this in coneection with love and nature we celebrate.

    Others (most i would SAY) it is about bringing out he goddess or god energy in you and that there IS a supernatural element involved.

    Deities mean different things to different people.

    But it is an interesting question.

    I would be curious as to what others would say it is an interesting question.

    One aspect of what you said worried me though

    'Would i have to believe in any of the supernatural elements?'

    YOU SHOULD NEVER FEEL YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE ANYTHING.

    If it isnt for you it isnt for you.

    There are some wonderful aspects to being pagan but that does not mean it is for everyone.

    It is a path that should be hard to join and very easy to leave.

    Each to their own path.

    What you do and practice alone is your own thing.

    Joining others is another thing entirely. It depends on what they do and how they feel about it. And on the tradition they practice.

    But there is a lot of natureworship traditions out there.

    The belief that nature is sacred and worthy of respect and celebration does not need one to belief in a deity.

    But that is not really wicca ie. GARDENARIAN OR ALEXANDRIAN WITCHCRAFT ( WICCA IS A VERY VAGUE TERM!!).

    But as i said i would not rule it out at all.

    But i would think that at some point that someone would start to feel that the ritual could not mean to them what it did to others unless they did have that belief. But again not ruling it out.

    There are many other traditions with respect for nature that are atheist such as buddhism or Daoism.

    I would think that they might be worth looking into. I know a daoist who found it precisely because he was an atheist and loved nature.

    As regards mythology to quote Dogma 'god hates it when you refer to it as mythology' :-)

    Well their are re enactment societies ?????? Rather than actual pagans.

    Sort of like the battle re inactment societies :-)
    SO if you where interested more in the history that might be more for you:-)

    As i said not outright ruling it out just somethings to think about:-)

    Interesting though:-)


  • #3
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Otaku Girl wrote: »
    love of nature,tradtion,mythology ect
    Some worship the trees, so I don't think it'd be far off.

    You don't have to worship a god, but being one with nature, accepting that tree's & plants were made by some godly figure won't go against you.


  • #4
    Otaku Girl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 145 ✭✭Otaku Girl


    Lou.m wrote: »
    IT is an interesting question:-)

    I think being interested in nature word be more in the lines of nature worship.

    But i am not ruling it out each to their own.:)

    Everyone is free to believe in whatever they feel.

    I would be puzzled as to why an atheist would practise .....but i would not be against it outright or anything.

    IT is not necessary to be wiccan to take part in the wider community out there or to appreciate mythology.

    If you wanted to take part in ritual it would depend on whether or not you wanted to go it alone or with others.

    Alone you can practise what you want in a way that feels right for you.

    With others it depends on them too and the tradition most pagan traditions have a deep spiritual aspect and a supernatural aspect, those you were working with might feel something was MISSING.

    Witchcraft or involved working towards a goal and the belief that energy can be raised towards that goal. I dont know what this would mean for your beliefs.

    Wicca IS a term used for a lot of diff forms of witchcraft where there is goddess and god worship and invocation and the celebration of fertility.

    Now what this means to different people within the pagan community is varied some belief that the ceremony and path and learning is all supposed to bring out the best in you and that is the god element and this in coneection with love and nature we celebrate.

    Others (most i would SAY) it is about bringing out he goddess or god energy in you and that there IS a supernatural element involved.

    Deities mean different things to different people.

    But it is an interesting question.

    I would be curious as to what others would say it is an interesting question.

    One aspect of what you said worried me though

    'Would i have to believe in any of the supernatural elements?'

    YOU SHOULD NEVER FEEL YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE ANYTHING.

    If it isnt for you it isnt for you.

    There are some wonderful aspects to being pagan but that does not mean it is for everyone.

    It is a path that should be hard to join and very easy to leave.

    Each to their own path.

    What you do and practice alone is your own thing.

    Joining others is another thing entirely. It depends on what they do and how they feel about it. And on the tradition they practice.

    But there is a lot of natureworship traditions out there.

    The belief that nature is sacred and worthy of respect and celebration does not need one to belief in a deity.

    But that is not really wicca ie. GARDENARIAN OR ALEXANDRIAN WITCHCRAFT ( WICCA IS A VERY VAGUE TERM!!).

    But as i said i would not rule it out at all.

    But i would think that at some point that someone would start to feel that the ritual could not mean to them what it did to others unless they did have that belief. But again not ruling it out.

    There are many other traditions with respect for nature that are atheist such as buddhism or Daoism.

    I would think that they might be worth looking into. I know a daoist who found it precisely because he was an atheist and loved nature.

    As regards mythology to quote Dogma 'god hates it when you refer to it as mythology' :-)

    Well their are re enactment societies ?????? Rather than actual pagans.

    Sort of like the battle re inactment societies :-)
    SO if you where interested more in the history that might be more for you:-)

    As i said not outright ruling it out just somethings to think about:-)

    Interesting though:-)


    Thanks for the replies.

    I would be puzzled as to why an atheist would practise .....but i would not be against it outright or anything.

    Well, I suppose it's like the way many atheists still go to mass/church because they like the hymns,art,traditions,festivals,history,social teaching/philosophy and sense of community.

    I think I would fit more into the Pagan/Wiccan/nature worship version of this.(Sorry I'm a tad perplexed by all the terms at the moment.)

    Well their are re enactment societies ?????? Rather than actual pagans.
    But i would think that at some point that someone would start to feel that the ritual could not mean to them what it did to others unless they did have that belief. But again not ruling it out.

    Yeah, I can understand this. For me I feel it would feel like an empty gesture without some degree of faith also. I can understand how the more dedicated Wiccans would be concerned that the religion would be eventually watered down if people just joined for the reasons I am considering.

    I suppose that's one of the sad things about being an atheist,for some people, it does leave a sense of emptiness,for me at least....


  • #5
    Saruman
    Registered Users Posts: 11,389 ✭✭✭✭Saruman


    Of course, most people in this country are Catholic for cultural reasons but are not practising and probably do not even believe in God.


  • #6
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Saruman wrote: »
    Of course, most people in this country are Catholic for cultural reasons but are not practising and probably do not even believe in God.

    Catholicism is an open religion, wicca is not. One fundamental difference is right belief / right practice.

    OP no you can't. There are any number of pagan traditions you may or may not adopt but wicca is not some umbrella term, and it's not about "love of nature". Not sure how much mythology there is what with it having been invented in the 60s. To be a "practising wiccan" you'd also have to be studying a while and fully intitiated ,etc etc. And no it certainly doesn't go along with atheism o.O

    Good luck searching, but wicca ain't what you're looking for


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  • #7
    Terodil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Terodil


    bluewolf wrote: »
    OP no you can't. There are any number of pagan traditions you may or may not adopt but wicca is not some umbrella term, and it's not about "love of nature". [...] To be a "practising wiccan" you'd also have to be studying a while and fully intitiated ,etc etc.
    There are ecclectic Wiccans too. You don't need to be a member of a particular church to believe in the bible / be a Christian, it's rather the other way round IMO. We've been disagreeing on the 'nature or fertility cult' debate for ages, I still hold it's a nature cult with fertility being one major aspect. :P
    bluewolf wrote: »
    And no it certainly doesn't go along with atheism o.O

    Good luck searching, but wicca ain't what you're looking for
    Agreed. It's like saying you're a giraffe when you don't have any legs.


  • #8
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Terodil wrote: »
    You don't need to be a member of a particular church to believe in the bible / be a Christian

    Ok, but that's entirely different to wicca... where not everything about the religion is revealed until you join, afaik ??

    Anyway I'm not arguing this with you again tero, I'm only here to tell the OP it ain't what she's looking for =p


  • #9
    Terodil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 809 ✭✭✭Terodil


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Anyway I'm not arguing this with you again tero, I'm only here to tell the OP it ain't what she's looking for =p
    And we agree on that much at least.


  • #10
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    From the stickie on this topic.
    Wicca is not a catch all word for Witchcraft.
    Not all witches are pagan.
    Not all pagans are witches.
    Not all pagan witches are Wiccans.

    All Wiccans are pagan and witches.
    All Wiccans have proper Wiccan Lineage given by cross gendered initation.
    The redes are a poem which gives advice it is not law.
    There are laws which are called the ordains.


    Wicca is an Oathbound, Lineaged, cross gendered Initatory, Experiential, Mystery, Fertility Cult of Clergy who are Pagans and Witches.

    There are differing Traditions with in Wicca but they are all the same religion and stem from from a particular group of pagan witches in the New Forest area.


  • #11
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Terodil wrote: »
    There are ecclectic Wiccans too.

    There aren't there are people who are pagan who practice witchcraft who call themselves ecclectic wiccans, but they are not wiccan and wiccan practices
    are very specific and a person has to be initiated and trained to preform them.
    Terodil wrote: »
    You don't need to be a member of a particular church to believe in the bible / be a Christian, it's rather the other way round IMO.

    Wicca =|= christainty
    Wicca is not open to anyone unlike christianity which is open to anyone who chooses to be christian.
    Terodil wrote: »
    We've been disagreeing on the 'nature or fertility cult' debate for ages, I still hold it's a nature cult with fertility being one major aspect. :P

    There are many different fertility cults and practices wicca is not the only one.


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  • #12
    Lou.m
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Catholicism is an open religion, wicca is not. One fundamental difference is right belief / right practice.

    OP no you can't. There are any number of pagan traditions you may or may not adopt but wicca is not some umbrella term, and it's not about "love of nature". Not sure how much mythology there is what with it having been invented in the 60s. To be a "practising wiccan" you'd also have to be studying a while and fully intitiated ,etc etc. And no it certainly doesn't go along with atheism o.O

    Good luck searching, but wicca ain't what you're looking for

    If you are talking about MY tradition Alexandrian witchcraft or another such as Gardenarian witchcraft then yes but the term wicca is much bigger and vaguer than that.

    IT is so eclectic and covers so much. You cant really quantify it.

    So many people who arent even part of a tradition just doing their own thing even.


  • #13
    Nevyn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43,045 ✭✭✭✭Nevyn


    Lou.m wrote: »
    If you are talking about MY tradition Alexandrian witchcraft or another such as Gardenarian witchcraft then yes

    That is how the term is defind on this forum.
    Lou.m wrote: »
    but the term wicca is much bigger and vaguer than that.

    Not here it isn't.

    Lou.m wrote: »
    IT is so eclectic and covers so much. You cant really quantify it.

    So many people who arent even part of a tradition just doing their own thing even.

    That is not Wicca but pagan witchcraft.


  • #14
    Tabnabs
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tabnabs


    bluewolf wrote: »
    Catholicism is an open religion, wicca is not. One fundamental difference is right belief / right practice.

    OP no you can't. There are any number of pagan traditions you may or may not adopt but wicca is not some umbrella term, and it's not about "love of nature". Not sure how much mythology there is what with it having been invented in the 60s. To be a "practising wiccan" you'd also have to be studying a while and fully intitiated ,etc etc. And no it certainly doesn't go along with atheism o.O

    Good luck searching, but wicca ain't what you're looking for

    Good post, nice to see some backbone and stringent guidelines on the issue. Wicca is sometimes seen as the fluffier side of paganism by the other groups under that umbrella, but posts like this set us straight! :D


  • #15
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Lou.m wrote: »
    ... but the term wicca is much bigger and vaguer than that.

    IT is so eclectic and covers so much. You cant really quantify it.

    So many people who arent even part of a tradition just doing their own thing even.
    What you're talking about is paganism, possibly pagan witchcraft. You are not talking about wicca, and I firmly re-iterate, wicca is NOT an umbrella term for witch/pagan.


  • #16
    Lou.m
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,532 ✭✭✭Lou.m


    I would have thought the term wicca in popular culture and the wider world refered to more that gardenarian or alexandrian witchcraft.

    But if that is not the way it is used here fair enough.


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