Do we now have seal eating Killer Whale pods in Irish Waters

Birdnuts · 31-08-2019 9:51pm #1

I'm asking this question after watching a very enjoyable nature programme about Shetland on BBC2 this evening. It appears a seal hunting pod of Orcas have moved into the area and are targeting breeding beaches during the summer season. Would be interesting to know with the increased sightings of Orca in Irish waters in recent years, are any targeting Irish seal Colonies?? I have one just offshore from my place in North Mayo(Broadhaven). Get plenty of Dolphin and Porpoise but no Orca yet(to my knowledge)

Rows Grower · 31-08-2019 10:06pm

I tell ya one thing we could do with a few of them off the south Kerry coast.

The seals are multiplying and spreading like Japanese knotweed and the salmon are getting smaller and fewer every year.

ardinn · 31-08-2019 10:10pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

I tell ya one thing we could do with a few of them off the south Kerry coast.

The seals are multiplying and spreading like Japanese knotweed and the salmon are getting smaller and fewer every year.

I was just going to post the same thing.

Orcas would be extremely welcome around wexford.

Birdnuts · 31-08-2019 10:10pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

I tell ya one thing we could do with a few of them off the south Kerry coast.

The seals are multiplying and spreading like Japanese knotweed and the salmon are getting smaller and fewer every year.

I was thinking the fishermen would welcome it;) - it would be interesting to know were seals being preyed on by Orcas prior to the era of commercial Whaling from the late 18th centaury onwards which severely impacted many species?

magicbastarder · 31-08-2019 10:29pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

The seals are multiplying and spreading like Japanese knotweed and the salmon are getting smaller and fewer every year.

are we in a causation/correlation discussion now?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 31-08-2019 10:39pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

are we in a causation/correlation discussion now?

No, more a cetacean discussion.

kippy · 31-08-2019 10:41pm

To be fair, I'd suspect humans overfishing and environmental problems the cause of fish stock and size issues rather than the poor seal.

Rows Grower · 31-08-2019 11:06pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

are we in a causation/correlation discussion now?

Causation does not imply correlation mr moderator.

It was merely a short discussion between members with an interest in what is going on around them.

magicbastarder · 31-08-2019 11:41pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

Causation does not imply correlation mr moderator.

that was my point; and the converse too. also, i'm not a moderator of this forum. my opinions are as well (or in this case, badly) informed as anyone else, and me being a mod of a completely unconnected forum makes to difference to that.

however; i'm not inclined to believe that salmon stocks out west are that badly affected by numbers of seals returning to what (at a guess) are a small fraction of what would be considered their 'natural' level.
seals are by far from the only predator affected salmon levels, but they're obviously going to be blamed by some.

Stigura · 31-08-2019 11:41pm

" Do we now have seal eating Killer Whale pods in Irish Waters "

magicbastarder wrote: »

are we in a causation/correlation discussion now?

Arely Colossal Snack wrote: »

No, more a cetacean discussion.

Comedy Gold! Ye couldn't make this stuff up!

Rows Grower · 31-08-2019 11:47pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

that was my point; and the converse too. also, i'm not a moderator of this forum. my opinions are as well (or in this case, badly) informed as anyone else, and me being a mod of a completely unconnected forum makes to difference to that.

however; i'm not inclined to believe that salmon stocks out west are that badly affected by numbers of seals returning to what (at a guess) are a small fraction of what would be considered their 'natural' level.
seals are by far from the only predator affected salmon levels, but they're obviously going to be blamed by some.

I really think you should stick to the cycling because I find it very difficult to comprehend your point.

magicbastarder · 31-08-2019 11:56pm

you must have had even more beer than me so.

Rows Grower · 31-08-2019 11:59pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

you must have had even more beer than me so.

Yeah, that would explain it alright.

Atlantic Dawn · 01-09-2019 12:02am

kippy wrote: »

To be fair, I'd suspect humans overfishing and environmental problems the cause of fish stock and size issues rather than the poor seal.

I've never seen so many seals in the last 10 years as I seen in the 20 before, if it's overfishing causing the problem how in the jaysus are their numbers increasing? Makes no sense.

magicbastarder · 01-09-2019 12:07am

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/just-three-or-four-in-100-wild-salmon-return-to-irish-waters-1.3875588

Atlantic Dawn · 01-09-2019 12:12am

magicbastarder wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/just-three-or-four-in-100-wild-salmon-return-to-irish-waters-1.3875588

Salmon "farming", that's another beauty, how it's allowed is beyond me, utter disgrace.

Rows Grower · 01-09-2019 12:35am

magicbastarder wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/just-three-or-four-in-100-wild-salmon-return-to-irish-waters-1.3875588

http://www.conserveireland.com/mammals/grey_seal.php

Far be it from me to imply a connection but read the both articles carefully and draw your own conclusions.

If you are after too many beers just read the first sentences in the first report and the last sentence in the second report.

I need some rest now, dawn is approaching and the stag hunting season has just begun.

Birdnuts · 01-09-2019 1:08am

No offence folks but can we get back on topic;)

magicbastarder · 01-09-2019 1:47am

i suspect - unfortunately - the answer to your question is 'insufficient data'.

paul71 · 01-09-2019 1:57am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I've never seen so many seals in the last 10 years as I seen in the 20 before, if it's overfishing causing the problem how in the jaysus are their numbers increasing? Makes no sense.

Are their numbers increasing or is their behaviour changing because reduced fish stocks. Perhaps they are following fishing trawlers to feed off the discarded undersized fish that are caught, and that makes them more visable by being closer to populated areas around fishing ports.

ardinn · 01-09-2019 2:58am

kippy wrote: »

To be fair, I'd suspect humans overfishing and environmental problems the cause of fish stock and size issues rather than the poor seal.

The seals in Ireland along with cormorants moving upriver have a massive hand in the decline of salmon.

Cormorants are moving out of need - there feeding grounds have been stripped, but, the 6 mile ban may help with this issue.

Seal populations have exploded and are seriously out of hand. Culls need to happen, how the common seal is protected here is beyond me.

They will be the final nail in the coffin, they are intelligent hunters, they line estuaries and chase inland to the 1st weirs, they hunt in packs off the coast and decimate shoals.

Is is totally unsustainable for salmon in Ireland if they are not dealt with.

OpenYourEyes · 01-09-2019 11:04am

Rows Grower wrote: »

Causation does not imply correlation mr moderator.

It was merely a short discussion between members with an interest in what is going on around them.

Rows Grower wrote: »

I really think you should stick to the cycling because I find it very difficult to comprehend your point.

Mod Note: Keep it civil or I'll happily remove people.

OpenYourEyes · 01-09-2019 11:10am

Suffice it to say that Salmon (and other species including Eel) have a particularly difficult life cycle compared to fish that remain resident in the same area for their entire lives. With that in mind, coupled with the poor state of our waterbodies and surrounding landscape (agriculture, forestry, drainage, cutover bogs, flood defense, dams, weirs etc) that it seems very simplistic and even optimistic to blame their predators - if only it was that simple to solve!

Also note that nobody ever blames Kingfishers, Great-crested Grebes etc. - always Cormorants and Seals! I suspect that if Cormorants looked as nice as the former two then we'd be blaming something else...

And finally, lest some untruths persist - our wintering Cormorant population is declining and Cormorants have always been birds of the coast and inland lakes and rivers - it's not a new phenomenon by any means.

Rows Grower · 01-09-2019 12:12pm

They might be here;
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/so-sad-to-see-woman-finds-three-decapitated-seals-on-beach-947565.html

Rows Grower · 01-09-2019 1:06pm

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Suffice it to say that Salmon (and other species including Eel) have a particularly difficult life cycle compared to fish that remain resident in the same area for their entire lives. With that in mind, coupled with the poor state of our waterbodies and surrounding landscape (agriculture, forestry, drainage, cutover bogs, flood defense, dams, weirs etc) that it seems very simplistic and even optimistic to blame their predators - if only it was that simple to solve!

Also note that nobody ever blames Kingfishers, Great-crested Grebes etc. - always Cormorants and Seals! I suspect that if Cormorants looked as nice as the former two then we'd be blaming something else...

And finally, lest some untruths persist - our wintering Cormorant population is declining and Cormorants have always been birds of the coast and inland lakes and rivers - it's not a new phenomenon by any means.

A lot of the times the simple answer is usually the right one, in this case common sense would dictate that the seals are indeed to blame for much of the decline in our salmon stocks.

The seals became a protected species in the 70's and from that time there has been a noticeable decline in our salmon stocks as pointed out in a previous post quoting two different articles which were posted.

People with experience of understanding nature know that salmon will wait until the river they were spawned in is at the right water level before attempting to travel the river, most rivers get the annual run of salmon at the same time each year.

If we have a particularly long dry spell at the time the salmon normally enter the river they are stuck outside waiting for the river to send a signal that the time is right. This is the time when the seals do the damage to the stocks.

I've seen a battle royal between a cormorant trying to lift a peel (a young salmon) from a small river I fish on a regular basis, the salmon was lucky to escape that time. I've never seen or heard of a Kingfisher doing damage to salmon stocks, probably because they don't.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 01-09-2019 1:18pm

Salmon and cod are naturally prey to seals, as they are among the slowest fish. It's nothing new and has always been so. In the 1960s British biologists revealed that 80 per cent of the stomach contents of seals sampled was salmon and 18 per cent cod. Thus is nature. The fall in overall stock levels goes way beyond natural predation. And I'm a keen angler for over 60 years. I've seen stocks reduce but predation by seals and cormorants is nothing new.

Birdnuts · 01-09-2019 2:34pm

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

Suffice it to say that Salmon (and other species including Eel) have a particularly difficult life cycle compared to fish that remain resident in the same area for their entire lives. With that in mind, coupled with the poor state of our waterbodies and surrounding landscape (agriculture, forestry, drainage, cutover bogs, flood defense, dams, weirs etc) that it seems very simplistic and even optimistic to blame their predators - if only it was that simple to solve!

Also note that nobody ever blames Kingfishers, Great-crested Grebes etc. - always Cormorants and Seals! I suspect that if Cormorants looked as nice as the former two then we'd be blaming something else...

And finally, lest some untruths persist - our wintering Cormorant population is declining and Cormorants have always been birds of the coast and inland lakes and rivers - it's not a new phenomenon by any means.

The Hydro dams on the Shannon and Erne have done immense damage to salmon and Eel stocks too. Worse is that the ESB refuses to mitigate such damage via maintained fish ladders, filters etc.:mad: As regards cormorants there is evidence that Sea-Eagles on Lough Derg are snacking on them;)

MadYaker · 01-09-2019 2:39pm

Where can I find info on orca pods around Ireland? I do a bit of long distance sea kayaking and would love to see them hunting seals. From a safe distance!

uck51js9zml2yt · 01-09-2019 2:43pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

I tell ya one thing we could do with a few of them off the south Kerry coast.

The seals are multiplying and spreading like Japanese knotweed and the salmon are getting smaller and fewer every year.

I would suggest that the factory ships are taking more salmon than the seals.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 01-09-2019 2:45pm

Try contacting here..

https://iwdg.ie/

But you're very unlikely to see them hunting seals.

Rows Grower · 01-09-2019 2:50pm

Logan Ugly Duckling wrote: »

Rows Grower wrote: »

I tell ya one thing we could do with a few of them off the south Kerry coast.

The seals are multiplying and spreading like Japanese knotweed and the salmon are getting smaller and fewer every year.

I would suggest that the factory ships are taking more salmon than the seals.

Highly unlikely.

Do we now have seal eating Killer Whale pods in Irish Waters

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