Hansons Method

bryangiggsy · 15-09-2019 1:44pm

bryangiggsy wrote: »

The form to go Sub 3 ... that’s debatable... my pb is 3.09.48 ... however I blew up in Boston this year 323 after I was out injured for 5 mths last year ... got back running in November . I have trained consistently since Boston . Ran a 10k in 40 mins in July . Unsure on HR max . Am aged 45 . Going after 3 maybe bit adventurous however i am hitting the paces in training . Happy to share some garmin files when I am home later .id be happier going sub 304 than trying to overreach to hit sub 3 and blowup and run 310 and it to be ugly

Strength 4 x 1.5
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/4043517765

Aerobic Long Run
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/4032133366

3rd 8 Mile tempo
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/4027829575

rooneyjm · 15-09-2019 11:15pm

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Strength 4 x 1.5
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/4043517765

Aerobic Long Run
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/4032133366

3rd 8 Mile tempo
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/4027829575

I wouldn’t go changing the plan based on a random conversation. You would need a lot of context around the week of those sessions ie was he fully rested etc. I don’t think 1.28 is a disaster mid plan.

you could speed up the tempos a little 6.45 and keep an eye on the heart rate. The long run is 7.20-7.30, so you could speed it up a bit. You be moving into the 100k weeks now so still lots of work to be done, don’t panic.

bryangiggsy · 16-09-2019 7:34am

rooneyjm wrote: »

I wouldn’t go changing the plan based on a random conversation. You would need a lot of context around the week of those sessions ie was he fully rested etc. I don’t think 1.28 is a disaster mid plan.

you could speed up the tempos a little 6.45 and keep an eye on the heart rate. The long run is 7.20-7.30, so you could speed it up a bit. You be moving into the 100k weeks now so still lots of work to be done, don’t panic.

.I feel if I kept my hr a bit lower sat 163 and ran slower early on 645 instead of 640 I could have ran faster than 645 average . I always seem to do better running into a pace than starting off at that pace . Some valuable lessons learned . . Cheers for the advice . Trust the plan . It’s only half time ðŸ™Œ

bryangiggsy · 16-09-2019 12:50pm

To throw some more context in with the Hanson plan . I run six days Mon thru Sat and I take Sundays off as I’m a coach in a swimming club and train kids Sunday mornings . So I do my Sat easy run on Wednesday and my long run on Sat . The only negative I see and someone can correct me if am wrong is the day less recovery between the tempo and the long run . I do start the long run on Sats with fatigue in the legs and keep the HR in the 140’s at around 730 pace . I usually just do my easy runs on feel ... if am tired I do around 815-820 pace ... if am not tired I do them at 8-8.05 pace . Are these too fast or slow as in the book the time guidance is quite wide ?

Singer · 16-09-2019 1:14pm

bryangiggsy wrote: »

To throw some more context in with the Hanson plan . I run six days Mon thru Sat and I take Sundays off as I’m a coach in a swimming club and train kids Sunday mornings . So I do my Sat easy run on Wednesday and my long run on Sat . The only negative I see and someone can correct me if am wrong is the day less recovery between the tempo and the long run . I do start the long run on Sats with fatigue in the legs and keep the HR in the 140’s at around 730 pace . I usually just do my easy runs on feel ... if am tired I do around 815-820 pace ... if am not tired I do them at 8-8.05 pace . Are these too fast or slow as in the book the time guidance is quite wide ?

I think there's no harm in changing the days up like that, but ideally the longer run would be a little closer to the prescribed pace.

My easy runs are never that fast, though my easy volume is higher. Maybe try going slower on your easy runs and a little faster on the SOS runs

Murph_D · 17-09-2019 11:52pm

Probably too late now, but if Sunday has to be the rest day, why not Speed/Strength on Sat, tempo Mon, Long Thursday? The fast Long Runs (the non-easy ones that are supposed to be MP + 40s) are really crucial, challenging workouts that you need to be paying attention to.

Itziger · 18-09-2019 7:53am

Murph_D wrote: »

Probably too late now, but if Sunday has to be the rest day, why not Speed/Strength on Sat, tempo Mon, Long Thursday? The fast Long Runs (the non-easy ones that are supposed to be MP + 40s) are really crucial, challenging workouts that you need to be paying attention to.

Is that what it says for you Imperialist/Milers?

I thought it was MP+20 secs per km, which would be +32 per mile, no??

Or is it percentage??

I'm enjoying the plan more than I thought I would. I have a faster partner for the Long Runs which is making them so much easier although also a little faster than prescribed. Yesterday's 'speed' session proved tough but I'm not too worried about that. Getting towards the end of the speed stuff now anyway. I feel the 'strength' and the MP sessions are more important for us amateurs. And the L runs. The weeks are going by all the same. I thought 18 was going to be a killer.

Murph_D · 18-09-2019 1:30pm

Itziger wrote: »

Is that what it says for you Imperialist/Milers?

I thought it was MP+20 secs per km, which would be +32 per mile, no??

Or is it percentage??

I'm enjoying the plan more than I thought I would. I have a faster partner for the Long Runs which is making them so much easier although also a little faster than prescribed. Yesterday's 'speed' session proved tough but I'm not too worried about that. Getting towards the end of the speed stuff now anyway. I feel the 'strength' and the MP sessions are more important for us amateurs. And the L runs. The weeks are going by all the same. I thought 18 was going to be a killer.

You're right - it's relative. MP +40s (per mile) is the number for a 3:20 target. For a 3:00 target the LR pace is 7:29 (MP +37s) according to Table 3.5 in the book. +20s/k (32s/m) would be appropriate for about a 2:20-2:25 target.

Itziger · 18-09-2019 1:34pm

Murph_D wrote: »

You're right - it's relative. MP +40s is the number for a 3:20 target. For a 3:00 target the LR pace is 7:29 (MP +37s) according to Table 3.5 in the book. Don't know where you're getting +20s from though - that seems too hot (for this plan) at any pace - even a 2:10 target has an associated LR of +31s.

That's per km, Murph.

Murph_D · 18-09-2019 1:35pm

Itziger wrote: »

That's per km, Murph.

Yep sorry - was editing original post when you posted.

Itziger · 18-09-2019 1:53pm

Murph_D wrote: »

You're right - it's relative. MP +40s (per mile) is the number for a 3:20 target. For a 3:00 target the LR pace is 7:29 (MP +37s) according to Table 3.5 in the book. +20s/k (32s/m) would be appropriate for about a 2:20-2:25 target.

You sure, fella?? I'll have another look. I thought +20 per km was for about 2.52/54 target......

Murph_D · 18-09-2019 2:06pm

Itziger wrote: »

You sure, fella?? I'll have another look. I thought +20 per km was for about 2.52/54 target......

See below. It’s not a huge difference.

bryangiggsy · 18-09-2019 9:18pm

Murph_D wrote: »

Probably too late now, but if Sunday has to be the rest day, why not Speed/Strength on Sat, tempo Mon, Long Thursday? The fast Long Runs (the non-easy ones that are supposed to be MP + 40s) are really crucial, challenging workouts that you need to be paying attention to.

Never thought of that however doing a long run on Thursday may be issue with work . Admittedly my 6 days on 1 day off ain’t ideal but seem to work once I hit the paces . Getting the pacing wrong in Ratoath has fooled me up this week . My quads are still sore doing an easy run this eve at 9 min pace . Hoping there will be some improvement overnight . Going to run easy tomorrow also and push the tempo to Friday and long run Sunday this week .

rooneyjm · 19-09-2019 9:10pm

bryangiggsy wrote: »

Never thought of that however doing a long run on Thursday may be issue with work . Admittedly my 6 days on 1 day off ain’t ideal but seem to work once I hit the paces . Getting the pacing wrong in Ratoath has fooled me up this week . My quads are still sore doing an easy run this eve at 9 min pace . Hoping there will be some improvement overnight . Going to run easy tomorrow also and push the tempo to Friday and long run Sunday this week .

That’s the reason there are no races in the plan. If u go all out in the race the following week suffers. Stay out of the red zone until marathon race day

Kissy Lips · 25-09-2019 9:51am

How do you check your pace is on track in the marathon?

- Lash through the miles at or around goal pace and hope for the best?

- Use a pacing band and check the time at each mile marker?

- Roughly know the times at 10km and half etc?

Or some other trick?

Singer · 25-09-2019 10:24am

I've always collected but then forgotten to wear a pacing band. It's definitely the most reliable way, though not every mile marker will be exactly where they should be. Pace bands will have even splits though (unless you get a fancy one from the internet) and Dublin shouldn't really be run in even splits, but it's still good to know where you are relative to an evenly run pace.

Last year I used a mix of relative position to pacers and knowing the times I needed to go over 10k, HM and 30k. The rest was then just keeping an eye on the watch.

Itziger · 25-09-2019 11:01am

Kissy Lips wrote: »

How do you check your pace is on track in the marathon?

- Lash through the miles at or around goal pace and hope for the best?

- Use a pacing band and check the time at each mile marker?

- Roughly know the times at 10km and half etc?

Or some other trick?

I've been thinking about this and was wondering whether to vary this time around and do 5k splits. It means having to spot the km marker each time but that shouldn't be difficult. In fact I think the 5k multiples are often a little more prominent than others anyway. Within each 'lap' you could keep an eye on the average pace to see if it starts drifting. Obviously this wouldn't work for milers and events that don't use kms.

The Davestator · 27-09-2019 11:08am

Kissy Lips wrote: »

How do you check your pace is on track in the marathon?

- Lash through the miles at or around goal pace and hope for the best?

- Use a pacing band and check the time at each mile marker?

- Roughly know the times at 10km and half etc?

Or some other trick?

If you use a garmin, you can use a race screen. You click lap every time you pass a mile marker and it automatically updates the remaining miles pace to ensure you hit your target. Bit too involved for me, but an option.

The Davestator · 27-09-2019 11:10am

Singer wrote: »

I've always collected but then forgotten to wear a pacing band. It's definitely the most reliable way, though not every mile marker will be exactly where they should be. Pace bands will have even splits though (unless you get a fancy one from the internet) and Dublin shouldn't really be run in even splits, but it's still good to know where you are relative to an evenly run pace.

Last year I used a mix of relative position to pacers and knowing the times I needed to go over 10k, HM and 30k. The rest was then just keeping an eye on the watch.

I wore one for Barcelona marathon, but also had a faster time band in my pocket. Felt good, so took the one out of my pocket and revised my time up. Was great to not have to work that out on the go!

Kellygirl · 27-09-2019 4:35pm

The Davestator wrote: »

If you use a garmin, you can use a race screen. You click lap every time you pass a mile marker and it automatically updates the remaining miles pace to ensure you hit your target. Bit too involved for me, but an option.

Is that an app you have to download or on the watches already? I downloaded one at one stage and way too much data on the screen so took it off again.

Murph_D · 27-09-2019 4:56pm

Kellygirl wrote: »

Is that an app you have to download or on the watches already? I downloaded one at one stage and way too much data on the screen so took it off again.

You download from Garmin Connect Store and take it from there. Wasn’t the most intuitive when I tried it!

Kellygirl · 27-09-2019 5:17pm

Murph_D wrote: »

You download from Garmin Connect Store and take it from there. Wasn’t the most intuitive when I tried it!

Thanks. Same one I presume so.

walkin round town · 07-10-2019 7:59pm

How are Dublin marathon folk feeling? Last of the 16 milers done. Only 4 more sessions to go....

Singer · 07-10-2019 10:25pm

Things are going good here! Well, at least I think they are.

The last 4 weeks were all around 80 miles with 7 days of running. A few of the sessions didn't go exactly to plan, but the majority have gone well. The 16 milers were all good, and overall my paces have been getting faster as the plan has gone on. The last couple of weeks have been close perfect, running well under 2:55 paces in the sessions. Still a bit of real work left, and of course the proof will be in the pudding, so reserving judgement on the plan until 3 weeks or so but I've definitely improved a good bit thanks to the plan. I'm looking forward to a time in the near future when I'm not doing 2 mid-week sessions though

yaboya1 · 08-10-2019 7:45am

Singer wrote: »

The last 4 weeks were all around 80 miles with 7 days of running.

The last couple of weeks have been close perfect, running well under 2:55 paces in the sessions.

Still a bit of real work left, and of course the proof will be in the pudding, so reserving judgement on the plan until 3 weeks or so

Hmm. Sounds like you're not following the plan.
Making a judgement on it will be tough given you're ignoring the amount of miles, days and paces no?
Or what am I missing?

Singer · 08-10-2019 10:08am

yaboya1 wrote: »

Hmm. Sounds like you're not following the plan.
Making a judgement on it will be tough given you're ignoring the amount of miles, days and paces no?
Or what am I missing?

I'm following the book rather than the plan!

The additional miles added on are consistent with the advice in the book about adding them on. The easy days got bumped to 10 miles (my commute) which the book reckons is the first way to add miles on. I kept doing my commute during the scheduled day off, again the guidance in the book advises running on the day off when you want to add milage (though maybe 10 is a push, but I am pretty damn used to it by now). I didn't make any changes to the SOS runs, other than a mile or two warmup for the long run which the book is not specific about.

Going into this I was targeting 2:55 paces for the SOS runs (6:30, 6:40, 7:17). Here's what I ended up running (the two bad MP sessions stick out a bit, but have some excuses):

Week|Strength|Tempo|Long
2nd-8th September|6:26|6:50|7:13
9th-15th September|6:23|6:37|-
16th-22nd September|6:22|6:46|7:12
23rd-29th September|6:26|6:31|-
30th September - 6th October|6:19|6:33|7:04

Ok, maybe last week was a little fast

but generally the effort felt about right.

MrMacPhisto · 08-10-2019 10:53am

Singer wrote: »

I'm following the book rather than the plan!

The additional miles added on are consistent with the advice in the book about adding them on. The easy days got bumped to 10 miles (my commute) which the book reckons is the first way to add miles on. I kept doing my commute during the scheduled day off, again the guidance in the book advises running on the day off when you want to add milage (though maybe 10 is a push, but I am pretty damn used to it by now). I didn't make any changes to the SOS runs, other than a mile or two warmup for the long run which the book is not specific about.

Going into this I was targeting 2:55 paces for the SOS runs (6:30, 6:40, 7:17). Here's what I ended up running (the two bad MP sessions stick out a bit, but have some excuses):

Week|Strength|Tempo|Long
2nd-8th September|6:26|6:50|7:13
9th-15th September|6:23|6:37|-
16th-22nd September|6:22|6:46|7:12
23rd-29th September|6:26|6:31|-
30th September - 6th October|6:19|6:33|7:04

Ok, maybe last week was a little fast but generally the effort felt about right.

A man who has read the book, a breath of fresh air

Itziger · 08-10-2019 12:39pm

I had a little injury which meant I missed 12 days or so. That is 1 speed (not worried), two MP sessions of 8 miles each and one Longie of 24k. More concerned about the longer stuff. I'm still not 100% but I'll try the first Strength session today. 6x1 mile at about 4.00 kms, At least I think that's the suggested pace.

I too had been doing 7 day weeks and a bit more mileage. Not sure that provoked the injury but I do think the last 8 weeks, if I manage them, will be more like the plan!

To be honest, the 7 instead of 6 days is hardly an issue. I was doing easy 8kms on the Wed. I might continue with that. I was finding the Mondays tough for some reason. I don't think I'll be upping the distance on the Monday runs.

yaboya1 · 08-10-2019 12:49pm

Singer wrote: »

I'm following the book rather than the plan!

If you say so.
I must have missed the bit about the consistent <22 minute parkruns. Every Saturday is an easy day from what I remember.

Anyway, my point is whether it goes brilliantly right or horribly wrong won't really be a reflection on the plan imo.

Singer · 08-10-2019 12:58pm

Jaysus, you get away with nothing around here. I also went across the city twice on a Dublin bike the other day!

Hansons Method

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