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Certificate of exemption v certification of compliance

  • 19-12-2008 6:53pm
    #1
    corkgirl1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭


    What is the difference between the 2 of these? If you have a certificate of exemption does it mean you dont need a cert of compliance? The question is in relation to an extension on a house


Comments

  • #2
    Jimbo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭Jimbo


    Never mind


  • #3
    RKQ
    Registered Users Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭RKQ


    Nothing really. Its just a change of the word "compliance" with "exemption"

    In legal terms compliance is required for all buildings / extensions built after 1992 - compliance with Building Regulations.
    Compliance with Planning permission is required for all buildings or extensions where planning permission was applied for and granted.

    Exempted buildings (built pre 1968 and 1992) or extensions under a certain floor area, being exempt do not need to comply. So if its exempted development then a Cert of Compliance can not be issued because compliance isn't required. So a Certificate of Exemption is required.

    A Council issued Exemption Certificate Pursuant to Section 97 of the Planning & Development Act 2000 as amended by the Planning & Development (Amendment) Act 2002 is a different kettle of fish.

    Thats the simplist way to explain it - hope you can follow it.


  • #4
    Jimbo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,379 ✭✭✭Jimbo


    RKQ wrote: »
    Nothing really. Its just a change of the word "compliance" with "exemption"

    In legal terms compliance is required for all buildings / extensions built after 1992 - compliance with Building Regulations.
    Compliance with Planning permission is required for all buildings or extensions where planning permission was applied for and granted.

    Exempted buildings (built pre 1968 and 1992) or extensions under a certain floor area, being exempt do not need to comply. So if its exempted development then a Cert of Compliance can not be issued because compliance isn't required. So a Certificate of Exemption is required.

    A Council issued Exemption Certificate Pursuant to Section 97 of the Planning & Development Act 2000 as amended by the Planning & Development (Amendment) Act 2002 is a different kettle of fish.

    Thats the simplist way to explain it - hope you can follow it.

    Oops, sorry.
    I don't why I read that exemption cert.
    It is Friday evening I suppose


  • #5
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 14,544 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    corkgirl1 wrote: »
    What is the difference between the 2 of these? If you have a certificate of exemption does it mean you dont need a cert of compliance? The question is in relation to an extension on a house

    Certificate of Compliance can generally mean one of the following three:
    1. Certification of compliance with planning permission(s).
    2. Certification of compliance with Building Regulations.
    3. Certification of compliance with planning permission(s) and Building Regulations.

    Certificate of Exemption generally means:
    1. Certification that a building, or part thereof, is exempted from the provisions of the Planning and Development Act (planning permission).

    An extension to a house being exempt from planning permission does not mean you can't get a Certificate of Compliance for the property.


  • #6
    RKQ
    Registered Users Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭RKQ


    Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »
    An extension to a house being exempt from planning permission does not mean you can't get a Certificate of Compliance for the property.

    You can't get a Certificate of compliance with Planning Permission for an exempted development, as defined by the Planning Acts.

    (You can get a Certificate of Compliance with Building Regulations, for a post 1992 extension and the rest of the property, but I don't think thats anything to do with the OP's question!)

    Lets not confuse an already difficult to explain topic.


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  • #7
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 14,544 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    RKQ wrote: »
    You can't get a Certificate of compliance with Planning Permission for an exempted development.

    What you say is quite correct, RKQ, but that is not what I was inferring.

    You can get a Certificate of Exemption for an extension to a dwelling house. You can also get a Certificate of Compliance with planning permission for the original dwelling house or for the entire property.

    I don't believe that is confusing, and it is what I said in my other post.


  • #8
    RKQ
    Registered Users Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭RKQ


    Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »
    What you say is quite correct, RKQ, but that is not what I was inferring.

    Thanks Tom, I did think it was confusing and contradictory but I'm sure the OP can now understand the subtle differences in what is being said.

    An exempted extension can not compy with planning permission, because it never required planning permission.


  • #9
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 14,544 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    RKQ wrote: »
    An exempted extension can not compy with planning permission, because it never required planning permission.

    Spot on.

    But the rest of a dwelling/property/development can and should comply with any planning permission which was got.


  • #10
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,813 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Very well explained lads.

    In fact so good was it that I even understood it :D


  • #11
    corkgirl1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭corkgirl1


    thanks all, it is clear now I think :)

    Just one last question. So say the extension on a house has a certificate of Exemption. A surveyor comes in and states that the thickness of the walls in the extension do not meet the required thickness (I assume by this the surveyor is following the guidelines that would normally be outlined in a certificate of compliance and was not aware that said house had a certificate of exemption). However since the extension in said house does not have a certificate of compliance and has a certificate of exemption then all is ok? The extension by law is above board? and will always be considered a legal dwelling.

    Sorry I am a girl and I am just stupid about stuff like this and i dont want to make any assumptions.


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  • #12
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,813 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    If Im reading that right then I dont see a problem.

    Im not sure what you mean by the wall thickness. Unless you are saying that the surveyor thinks that the floor area of the extension includes the area occupied by the external walls.


  • #13
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    corkgirl1 wrote: »
    thanks all, it is clear now I think :)

    Just one last question. So say the extension on a house has a certificate of Exemption. A surveyor comes in and states that the thickness of the walls in the extension do not meet the required thickness (I assume by this the surveyor is following the guidelines that would normally be outlined in a certificate of compliance and was not aware that said house had a certificate of exemption). However since the extension in said house does not have a certificate of compliance and has a certificate of exemption then all is ok? The extension by law is above board? and will always be considered a legal dwelling.

    Sorry I am a girl and I am just stupid about stuff like this and i dont want to make any assumptions.

    I'm a little confused myself about this thread! :o

    Basically every development, extension, whatever, theoretically should have two certificates:

    1 - Certificate/Opinion on Compliance with Building Regulations
    and
    2 - Certificate/Opinion on Compliance with Planning Permission and/or Exemption from the need to have obtained Planning Permission.

    Two distinct areas - two certificates.

    An extension that did not need Planning Permission/is exempt should still comply with Building Regulations.


  • #14
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,813 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    An extension that did not need Planning Permission/is exempt should still comply with Building Regulations.
    The regs are never going to be perfect. In this instance where an extension is exempt from planning it is incumbent on the owner to ensure that it complies with building regs yet you do not need to submit a commencement notice :eek:


  • #15
    RKQ
    Registered Users Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭RKQ


    DOCARCH wrote: »
    An extension that did not need Planning Permission/is exempt should still comply with Building Regulations.

    This is very true if the extension way built after 1st July 1992.

    The Surveyor questioning the wall thicknesss? Again if its after 1992 then it needs to comply with the Regs but wall thickness needs more info from OP. A thin wall could comply with TG Doc A & TG Doc L in the past. What exactly concerns the surveyor?

    OP when was your extension constructed? ( To avoid further "ifs", "buts" & "maybe")

    Certification is a complex issue the OP might seek professional advice.


  • #16
    corkgirl1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭corkgirl1


    thanks all for the comments.

    One last question. Is it correct that if a house is sale agreed before Jan 1st 09 that a BER cert is not needed for the sale to go through, even if sale is not fainlized until Jan 09?
    This is a second hand house (about 80 years old)


  • #17
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,953 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    corkgirl1 wrote: »
    thanks all for the comments.

    One last question. Is it correct that if a house is sale agreed before Jan 1st 09 that a BER cert is not needed for the sale to go through, even if sale is not fainlized until Jan 09?
    This is a second hand house (about 80 years old)

    if the sale i sagreed then its not 'on offer for sale' therefore it does not require a BER cert, legally.

    But no harm asking for one anyway!!!


  • #18
    happihat
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭happihat


    When selling your house, do you have to get an engineer's certificate to confirm that a shed build is exempt from planning, even if it is under the 25sqm requirements?


  • #19
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,953 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    happihat wrote: »
    When selling your house, do you have to get an engineer's certificate to confirm that a shed build is exempt from planning, even if it is under the 25sqm requirements?

    yes.

    solicitors are incredibly paranoid these days.


  • #20
    BryanF
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,140 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    happihat wrote: »
    When selling your house, do you have to get an engineer's certificate to confirm that a shed build is exempt from planning, even if it is under the 25sqm requirements?

    Please don’t grave dig 11year old threads. Start a new one.


This discussion has been closed.
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