Water charges for excessive usage

FutureTeashock · 13-10-2019 7:40pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Middle Ireland was stiffed once

Will not be stiffed again...... will. not. happen.

R e l a x

'Middle Ireland' went along with the charade and allowed the installation of water meters, while 'lower Ireland' had the balls to oppose it.

That is what happened.

charlie14 · 13-10-2019 9:07pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Middle Ireland was stiffed once

Will not be stiffed again...... will. not. happen.

R e l a x

Pretty much relaxed over the whole fiasco Brendan other than over the fortune of taxpayers money that was wasted.

Even more relaxed over this latest half arsed attempt to resurrect the fiasco knowing that people such as yourself who were taken in, payed up and backed it too the hilt in it`s first incarnation, now realising how they were "stiffed" and will do what they should have done initially.

Ignore the IW quango, and take the head off any politician that was/is giving it any backing.

Brendan Bendar · 13-10-2019 10:23pm

charlie14 wrote: »

Pretty much relaxed over the whole fiasco Brendan other than over the fortune of taxpayers money that was wasted.

Even more relaxed over this latest half arsed attempt to resurrect the fiasco knowing that people such as yourself who were taken in, payed up and backed it too the hilt in it`s first incarnation, now realising how they were "stiffed" and will do what they should have done initially.

Ignore the IW quango, and take the head off any politician that was/is giving it any backing.

Taken in might be a bit strong, my friend, there is some merit in spreading the income base and the initial output on this issue purported to free up Irish Water to borrow money ‘off the books’ to carry out much needed renovation to our water system.

I have no regrets for what I did initially,but given the bollox they made of it and realizing that a large percentage got involved because they were afraid that the ‘feds’ would know too much about their activities plus certain politicians realised this and harnessed the ideal for their own advancement, I will certainly take your advice and ignore this lot, unless they treat every house holder equally.

charlie14 · 13-10-2019 11:56pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Taken in might be a bit strong, my friend, there is some merit in spreading the income base and the initial output on this issue purported to free up Irish Water to borrow money ‘off the books’ to carry out much needed renovation to our water system.

I have no regrets for what I did initially,but given the bollox they made of it and realizing that a large percentage got involved because they were afraid that the ‘feds’ would know too much about their activities plus certain politicians realised this and harnessed the ideal for their own advancement, I will certainly take your advice and ignore this lot, unless they treat every house holder equally.

You know as well as I do Brendan that the whole "off the books" was shown by Eurostat as the charade it was.

Nothing more than an attempt to down the road privatise IW and really "stiff" households

I don`t know who in the ranks of FG supporters or what they had to fear from the "feds" because when the wheels really came off the whole creaking mess was when FG TDs saw them marching in protest and realised they were in for a hammering in the upcoming local elections and the GE to follow.

Ignore is going to be your only option Brendan because there is not a snowballs hope in hell of another Billion euro plus being buried underground on the pretext of finding excessive usage when the mains are leaking like sieves.

FG try that and the following GE election result bloodbath for them would make the 2016 result look like a minor nosebleed.

Brendan Bendar · 14-10-2019 7:01am

FutureTeashock wrote: »

'Middle Ireland' went along with the charade and allowed the installation of water meters, while 'lower Ireland' had the balls to oppose it.

That is what happened.

Beg to differ, my friend, some folk saw the big picture, and some folk saw the ‘feds’ sniffing around ....

That’s what happened.

Then what followed was one of the biggest bollox of an operation in a very long time.

Benedict · 14-10-2019 10:09am

IW are aware that there are vast areas of dense housing in which installation of meter was not permitted by the residents. So they won't be paying. There are significant numbers of houses where IW simply decided not to install meters (whether they wanted them or not). And they won't be paying. Then there are the apartments, hundreds of thousands of them - IW have admitted that they get a waiver. So they won't be paying. Then..... wait for it..... there are the poor eejits who allowed installation. This is the only section of the IW customers who will be told to obey a quota or pay a fine.

So will this metered section pay up?

Will they time their showers with a stop watch on pain of pain of penalty while the unmetered neighbour down the road is washing his car every second day and has the lawn sprinkler going non stop with no penalty?

We'll see!

Brendan Bendar · 14-10-2019 11:44am

Benedict wrote: »

IW are aware that there are vast areas of dense housing in which installation of meter was not permitted by the residents. So they won't be paying. There are significant numbers of houses where IW simply decided not to install meters (whether they wanted them or not). And they won't be paying. Then there are the apartments, hundreds of thousands of them - IW have admitted that they get a waiver. So they won't be paying. Then..... wait for it..... there are the poor eejits who allowed installation. This is the only section of the IW customers who will be told to obey a quota or pay a fine.

So will this metered section pay up?

Will they time their showers with a stop watch on pain of pain of penalty while the unmetered neighbour down the road is washing his car every second day and has the lawn sprinkler going non stop with no penalty?

We'll see!

Very simple answer Mr B

Middle Ireland was stiffed once....... won’t be stiffed again.

Meter one - meter all

As some poster said, any political party who attempts a stunt like that will be destroyed - and rightly so.

This one will not run.....make no mistake about that.

charlie14 · 14-10-2019 2:24pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Very simple answer Mr B

Middle Ireland was stiffed once....... won’t be stiffed again.

Meter one - meter all

As some poster said, any political party who attempts a stunt like that will be destroyed - and rightly so.

This one will not run.....make no mistake about that.

Not sure if you are referring to me as that poster Brendan, but my point was that any political party who attempts to use this whole exceeding of allowances hoopla, (or any other such lame excuse), to continue metering domestic households will be destroyed - and rightly so.

FutureTeashock · 14-10-2019 3:05pm

charlie14 wrote: »

Not sure if you are referring to me as that poster Brendan, but my point was that any political party who attempts to use this whole exceeding of allowances hoopla, (or any other such lame excuse), to continue metering domestic households will be destroyed - and rightly so.

Oh really? So why weren't FG destroyed for blowing 1 BILLION on Irish Water in the first place? Or Fianna FAIL for bankrupting the country?

'Middle Ireland' doesn't learn from its mistakes and, to be honest, it's a form of karma for the sneering and snobbery 'MI' directed at the protesters.

Brendan Bendar · 14-10-2019 5:23pm

charlie14 wrote: »

Not sure if you are referring to me as that poster Brendan, but my point was that any political party who attempts to use this whole exceeding of allowances hoopla, (or any other such lame excuse), to continue metering domestic households will be destroyed - and rightly so.

Don’t think so Charles, I think it was an earlier poster.

I don’t think any party would stupid enough to “continue metering domestic households” as you say, I don’t think that’s on the cards at a all.

My point was that any party who tries to stiff those with meters and ignore others will be destroyed, and I see it ,just will not get off the ground.

That was generally my point, hope that clears things up.

charlie14 · 14-10-2019 5:27pm

FutureTeashock wrote: »

Oh really? So why weren't FG destroyed for blowing 1 BILLION on Irish Water in the first place? Or Fianna FAIL for bankrupting the country?

'Middle Ireland' doesn't learn from its mistakes and, to be honest, it's a form of karma for the sneering and snobbery 'MI' directed at the protesters.

In electoral terms both were. As was Labour, FG`s partners, in the metering fiasco.

2011 FF lost 64% of their seats. 2016 FG lost 24% and Labour lost 69%.

I don`t know if karma had anything much to do with it.

There was a lot of sneering from some and certain IW pet journalists that water charges were supported by "Middle Ireland".

The electoral facts would not bear that out when you consider the vast majority of FG, FF and Labour supporters are members of this so called "Middle Ireland".

That plus the fact that when FG TD`s especially saw their own "Middle Ireland" supporters in the protest marches, it scared the living daylights out of them resulting in comedy being added to the metering farce with the introduction of a "conservation grant" that had nothing even remotely connected to conservation.

charlie14 · 14-10-2019 5:30pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Don’t think so Charles, I think it was an earlier poster.

I don’t think any party would stupid enough to “continue metering domestic households” as you say, I don’t think that’s on the cards at a all.

My point was that any party who tries to stiff those with meters and ignore others will be destroyed, and I see it ,just will not get off the ground.

That was generally my point, hope that clears things up.

Cheers Brendan. It does indeed, and for once we both appear to be on the same page.:)

FutureTeashock · 14-10-2019 5:32pm

charlie14 wrote: »

In electoral terms both were. As was Labour, FG`s partners, in the metering fiasco.

2011 FF lost 64% of their seats. 2016 FG lost 24% and Labour lost 69%.

I don`t know if karma had anything much to do with it.

There was a lot of sneering from some and certain IW pet journalists that water charges were supported by "Middle Ireland".

The electoral facts would not bear that out when you consider the vast majority of FG, FF and Labour supporters are members of this so called "Middle Ireland".

That plus the fact that when FG TD`s especially saw their own "Middle Ireland" supporters in the protest marches, it scared the living daylights out of them resulting in comedy being added to the metering farce with the introduction of a "conservation grant" that had nothing even remotely connected to conservation.

The fact remains that 'Middle Ireland' put up no fight whatever regarding meters and now their wallets are about to be drained as a result.

This is an EU directive so it WILL happen. Ireland doesn't stand up to the EU, that is self evident.

Brendan Bendar · 14-10-2019 5:55pm

FutureTeashock wrote: »

The fact remains that 'Middle Ireland' put up no fight whatever regarding meters and now their wallets are about to be drained as a result.

This is an EU directive so it WILL happen. Ireland doesn't stand up to the EU, that is self evident.

Let’s keep the debate on message.

Middle Ireland won’t be stiffed twice.

The Bullhorn Brigade saw the feds coming over the hill and foresaw a light being shone on activities, an opportunist bunch of lefties saw the opportunity to harness this fear and we got Jobstown and mob rule.

We saw folk traveling to Clonmel jumping into holes and taking photographs and intimidation of ordinary workers.

We saw ‘activists’ up a 0600 to ‘protect’ estates, when ordinarily they wouldn’t leave the scratcher before midday, it has been reported.

Water charges are dead..... unless Meter one-Meter all.

Middle Ireland won’t be stiffed twice.

FutureTeashock · 14-10-2019 6:05pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Let’s keep the debate on message.

Middle Ireland won’t be stiffed twice.

The Bullhorn Brigade saw the feds coming over the hill and foresaw a light being shone on activities, an opportunist bunch of lefties saw the opportunity to harness this fear and we got Jobstown and mob rule.

We saw folk traveling to Clonmel jumping into holes and taking photographs and intimidation of ordinary workers.

We saw ‘activists’ up a 0600 to ‘protect’ estates, when ordinarily they wouldn’t leave the scratcher before midday, it has been reported.

Water charges are dead..... unless Meter one-Meter all.

Middle Ireland won’t be stiffed twice.

Brendan, you are ONE person, and I'm sure YOU oppose charges, but there is no Middle Ireland movement, no solidarity.

When that brown harp envelop plops through Middle Ireland's letter box, you can be sure 99.99% will obey.

Plumbthedepths · 14-10-2019 6:06pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Let’s keep the debate on message.

Middle Ireland won’t be stiffed twice.

The Bullhorn Brigade saw the feds coming over the hill and foresaw a light being shone on activities, an opportunist bunch of lefties saw the opportunity to harness this fear and we got Jobstown and mob rule.

We saw folk traveling to Clonmel jumping into holes and taking photographs and intimidation of ordinary workers.

We saw ‘activists’ up a 0600 to ‘protect’ estates, when ordinarily they wouldn’t leave the scratcher before midday, it has been reported.

Water charges are dead..... unless Meter one-Meter all.

Middle Ireland won’t be stiffed twice.

Would you ever stop with this 'feds' crap, many people myself including my parents and parents in law saw this cash grab by FG for what it was and refused to pay. In excess of 600k households refused to engage with FG's cash grab. Same bs trotted out to explain why charges failed. A large section of MI called a halt people like you just can't except that fact.

Brendan Bendar · 14-10-2019 6:08pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Would you ever stop with this 'feds' crap, many people myself including my parents and parents in law saw this cash grab by FG for what it was and refused to pay. In excess of 600k households refused to engage with FG's cash grab. Same bs trotted out to explain why charges failed. A large section of MI called a halt people like you just can't except that fact.

Did y’all block meter installation in your area?

Plumbthedepths · 14-10-2019 6:17pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Did y’all block meter installation in your area?

Didn't need to as the funds had dried up due to none engagement. Myself my family have always worked and paid our way, but sometimes you got to say enough is enough. The FG cash grab was the 'enough' for 100's of 1000's. I remember your posts during the charges debacle, you didn't like it that plebs wouldn't remember their place. Now you have good one and don't forget to pay when you get your bill.

Brendan Bendar · 14-10-2019 6:37pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Didn't need to as the funds had dried up due to none engagement. Myself my family have always worked and paid our way, but sometimes you got to say enough is enough. The FG cash grab was the 'enough' for 100's of 1000's. I remember your posts during the charges debacle, you didn't like it that plebs wouldn't remember their place. Now you have good one and don't forget to pay when you get your bill.

Uhmmmm!

Bit of a personal bang at the Bren there.

Well, lookit, we will have compromise so.

The Brenner won’t be paying anything for treated water irrespective of the consequences in the future.

Meter one- meter all.

Nobody is going to weasel out of this one.

Not a runner.

charlie14 · 14-10-2019 8:08pm

FutureTeashock wrote: »

The fact remains that 'Middle Ireland' put up no fight whatever regarding meters and now their wallets are about to be drained as a result.

This is an EU directive so it WILL happen. Ireland doesn't stand up to the EU, that is self evident.

As I said earlier this so-called "Middle Ireland`s" views in my opinion were very misrepresented by supporters of water metering and by IW pet journalists at the time. The sight of them taking part in the protest marches went a long way to putting a spanner in the works of the whole debacle and their votes at the ballot box killed it off.

There was a lot of noise from IW supporters back in the day that as soon as we got shot of water charges that massive daily fines would be imposed under EU water policy directive 2000/60.
Hasn`t happened nor can I see it happening. The EU commission appeared at the time to be very vague on the issue.
Turned out there was a good reason for that, even though I believe a lot of that vagueness was encouraged by the FG/Lab government at the time.

The ECJ ruled in Commission v Germany 2014 (62012CJ0525-EN-EUR-Lex-EUR-Lex) "Environment - EU water policy - Directive 2000/60 - Whether all water services are subject to the principle of recovery of the costs - No".
Awarded costs to Germany and had a few other interesting areas where they put the Commission straight on just what the directive covered and did not.

Based on that ruling I would not expect the commission to come calling anytime soon if ever.
If they do then from that ruling I am sure we will defend our position as rigorously as we are doing to prevent the EU giving us all those Billions of euros in tax they say Apple owe us.:rolleyes:

Benedict · 15-10-2019 8:55am

FG have admitted that they are considering turning the screw slowly in order to raise more funds for IW. The phrase "boiling the frog slowly" was used. This phrase refers to the notion that if you try to cook a frog by throwing it into boiling water, it will jump out. So you slowly turn up the heat and before it knows it, the frog is unable to escape and will end up being eaten.

Their tactic will be to slowly lower the threshold so that over time, a second cup of tea with your breakfast will put you into "excessive usage".

The problem is, only approximately half the frogs will be boiled - the other half will be lounging on water lilies enjoying the sunshine.

And for some strange reason, they think we won't notice the unfairness of this and metered eejits will just pay up like good little Sean and Maura Citizens for fear of being hauled before a judge.

charlie14 · 15-10-2019 11:57am

Benedict wrote: »

FG have admitted that they are considering turning the screw slowly in order to raise more funds for IW. The phrase "boiling the frog slowly" was used. This phrase refers to the notion that if you try to cook a frog by throwing it into boiling water, it will jump out. So you slowly turn up the heat and before it knows it, the frog is unable to escape and will end up being eaten.

Their tactic will be to slowly lower the threshold so that over time, a second cup of tea with your breakfast will put you into "excessive usage".

The problem is, only approximately half the frogs will be boiled - the other half will be lounging on water lilies enjoying the sunshine.

And for some strange reason, they think we won't notice the unfairness of this and metered eejits will just pay up like good little Sean and Maura Citizens for fear of being hauled before a judge.

That was basically the intention from the outset.
Everything to do with the set up of IW was on the premise of boiling the frog slowly.

The first fix scheme, the so called conservation grant and the initial charges, (where if everyone had of ponied up after paying IW`s office overheads would not have left a red cent to improve services), were all designed to get all the frogs to jump into the pot themselves.

Had they achieved that with, to use wording of a current rugby advertisement, "everybody in" I have always been of the opinion that the real plan was not so much to turn up the heat, but with that they had a nice little product wrapped up with a bow for privatisation. After which the heat would really be applied with a lot of hand wringing but nothing other than, "We can do nothing. It`s the markets"

For me the whole "off the books" was to facilitate privatisation.
They even stated that was the aim in the failed Eurostat application to get it "off the books"
Had they intended turning up the heat themselves then it would have been left on the books where Revenue would have been collecting the charges. But that would have ruled out privatisation.

FG love the markets. It`s in their political DNA.

What is happening now is nothing more than them still attempting to get to their original aim of privatising water by that old political gambit of divide and conquer.
Get a bit of a furore going from those that are metered, (even though only a tiny percentage of them will use over their allowance), to get backing to meter the remaining households and then allow a private company to swoop in too boil all the frogs.
Anyone who thinks otherwise imho really needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

Benedict · 15-10-2019 2:47pm

They denied that privatisation is on the agenda but when they were asked to prove it by passing legislation the answer was "There's no need to bring in legislation because it won't happen".

Good answer.

charlie14 · 15-10-2019 3:44pm

Benedict wrote: »

They denied that privatisation is on the agenda but when they were asked to prove it by passing legislation the answer was "There's no need to bring in legislation because it won't happen".

Good answer.

There other excuse was that it would be impossible as the wording of such a referendum to ensure water services were never privatised would be legally to vague and open to future challenge.

Bit laughable when you consider that in the meantime they worded and got a referendum passed on abolishing the eighth amendment to the constitution with the vague wording that it would be replaced with "Provision may be made by law for the regulation of termination of pregnancy"

Benedict · 15-10-2019 5:44pm

IW really have created an almighty mess. The ONLY way now to get anyone to pay (for excessive use or otherwise) is to convince the public that non-metered homes will also have to pay and this is impossible since we know for a fact that non-metered homes won't have to pay. In fact even those non-metered home who actually want to pay won't have the mechanism available to them to do so.

IW really will have to swallow their pride now and start all over again with a new plan.

charlie14 · 15-10-2019 6:06pm

Benedict wrote: »

IW really have created an almighty mess. The ONLY way now to get anyone to pay (for excessive use or otherwise) is to convince the public that non-metered homes will also have to pay and this is impossible since we know for a fact that non-metered homes won't have to pay. In fact even those non-metered home who actually want to pay won't have the mechanism available to them to do so.

IW really will have to swallow their pride now and start all over again with a new plan.

IW, FG and Labour made such a God awful mess of this whole debacle that they have ensure that there isn`t a hope of anyone paying for public mains water for generations.

Be that metered, unmetered or excessive allowance usage.

Best they can do is quitely walk away from the whole sorry mess and hope the electorate forget that over a Billion euro of taxpayers money was wasted on a political ideology while the state was going through probably the most severe economic recession in its history.

Brendan Bendar · 15-10-2019 6:29pm

charlie14 wrote: »

IW, FG and Labour made such a God awful mess of this whole debacle that they have ensure that there isn`t a hope of anyone paying for public mains water for generations.

Be that metered, unmetered or excessive allowance usage.

Best they can do is quitely walk away from the whole sorry mess and hope the electorate forget that over a Billion euro of taxpayers money was wasted on a political ideology while the state was going through probably the most severe economic recession in its history.

I would disagree with your view that political ideology was the reason.

The reason was that the income base to the state needed to be more diverse which would reduce the exposure to the state to more narrow sources such as construction make it easier and cheaper to borrow to fix a dilapidated system.

Of course fear of the ‘authorities’ and form filling spooked a lot of folk and fuel to the fire was piled on by opportunist politicians who fed off the fear that they might have to come out in the open and contribute .

Fear of ‘privatization’ was touted as of course this coterie rightly cottoned on to the fact that the ‘nod and wink’ of the local authorities might be gone and people might actually look for money that was owed...imagine that!!

How much is owed to local authorities in Dublin..... millions and millions

Why was there so much opposition to the waste collection system, the clampers, Etc. Ill tell you why, because transgressors were pursued when they transgressed, the efficiency was much improved, and the productivity vastly increased, all to the value of the taxpayer.

The ‘ nod and wink’ brigade got a shaking up, and could have gotten a bigger shaking if the Govt hadn’t made a total bollox of IW.

That’s how it was,a chara.

James Brown · 15-10-2019 7:35pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I would disagree with your view that political ideology was the reason.

The reason was that the income base to the state needed to be more diverse which would reduce the exposure to the state to more narrow sources such as construction make it easier and cheaper to borrow to fix a dilapidated system.

Of course fear of the ‘authorities’ and form filling spooked a lot of folk and fuel to the fire was piled on by opportunist politicians who fed off the fear that they might have to come out in the open and contribute .

Fear of ‘privatization’ was touted as of course this coterie rightly cottoned on to the fact that the ‘nod and wink’ of the local authorities might be gone and people might actually look for money that was owed...imagine that!!

How much is owed to local authorities in Dublin..... millions and millions

Why was there so much opposition to the waste collection system, the clampers, Etc. Ill tell you why, because transgressors were pursued when they transgressed, the efficiency was much improved, and the productivity vastly increased, all to the value of the taxpayer.

The ‘ nod and wink’ brigade got a shaking up, and could have gotten a bigger shaking if the Govt hadn’t made a total bollox of IW.

That’s how it was,a chara.

As Charlie says, odd that when we were in the throws of a financial collapse, we were giving out write downs and sweet deals.

This is still ongoing AFAIK:

The investigation, which was established almost four years ago and is expected to cost more than €30 million, is investigating the sale of Siteserv, now called Actavo, to Mr O’Brien’s company Millington in 2012.

The Isle of Man firm purchased the construction-related company for €45 million after the State-owned Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, formerly Anglo Irish Bank, gave Siteserv a loan write-down of €110 million.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/siteserv-inquiry-seeks-to-compel-catherine-murphy-to-appear-over-deal-claims-1.3888210

Talk about your 'nod and wink' brigade

charlie14 · 15-10-2019 7:46pm

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I would disagree with your view that political ideology was the reason.

The reason was that the income base to the state needed to be more diverse which would reduce the exposure to the state to more narrow sources such as construction make it easier and cheaper to borrow to fix a dilapidated system.

Of course fear of the ‘authorities’ and form filling spooked a lot of folk and fuel to the fire was piled on by opportunist politicians who fed off the fear that they might have to come out in the open and contribute .

Fear of ‘privatization’ was touted as of course this coterie rightly cottoned on to the fact that the ‘nod and wink’ of the local authorities might be gone and people might actually look for money that was owed...imagine that!!

How much is owed to local authorities in Dublin..... millions and millions

Why was there so much opposition to the waste collection system, the clampers, Etc. Ill tell you why, because transgressors were pursued when they transgressed, the efficiency was much improved, and the productivity vastly increased, all to the value of the taxpayer.

The ‘ nod and wink’ brigade got a shaking up, and could have gotten a bigger shaking if the Govt hadn’t made a total bollox of IW.

That’s how it was,a chara.

The political ideology behind what IW and FG/Lab turned into a complete clusterfcuk was all to do with FG`s love of the markets, with privitisation the end game.

Nothing other than that then and still the aim with this latest hoopla on allowances.

It has been well documented that the metered pricing structure was never to improve the service. Had everyone,100% of households paid up, all that would have done was cover IW`s office overheads with not a penny left for services.

The "off the books" attempt was nothing other than an attempt to facilitate privatisation, (the failed application to Eurostat even stated that was the intended end game), by keeping Revenue out of the frame.

That would be the same Revenue that are ultimately responsible for the collection of LPT and the Household Charge.

You ever wonder Brendan why the Revenue were not give responsibility for collecting Water Charges!

Privatisation my friend.

Very handy for a few bob and a few favours for old friends while the frogs get well boiled and politically claim it`s nothing to do with you. "It`s the markets. Nothing to do with us. We cannot interfere with the markets. Perish the thought"

It wasn`t fear of the "authorities" or form filling that got your "Middle Ireland" FG voters out on the streets protesting that spooked FG into their comical conservation grant. And in reality the last nail in the FG/IW coffin.
It was the realisation that they were being set up to be boiled like frogs by privatisation.

Don`t fool yourself into believing it was ever anything else, or still is for that matter Brendan

Benedict · 16-10-2019 11:37am

This keeps going back to inequality. Someone in a 2 million Euro 2000 foot apartment in D4 with 4 en-suites and a power shower in each - being an apartment gets a waiver and won't have to pay a cent no mater how much water is used. A person in a 650 foot run-down terraced house with 1 bathroom has to bring a stop-watch into the shower for fear of being hit with a fine.

Even slowly boiled frogs will jump out of that pot.

Water charges for excessive usage

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