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US Presidential Election 2020

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Comments

  • #4952
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,484 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Water John wrote:
    In Ireland prisoners have a right to vote. The judge in a court sends you to prison for an offence, that's your punishment, nobody else can arbitrarily decide add ons. Every adult citizen has a right to vote.

    Yes but prisoners and ex-prisoners don't normally vote.


  • #4953
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Yes but prisoners and ex-prisoners don't normally vote.

    Ah look you're going to have to put forward some stats on that - be it from America or Ireland. And in the former, considering the issue here is the precise disenfranchisement of ex-cons, then this is circular logic being indulged, the case being that they don't vote because in some states they can't, or are prevented via noted, demonstrated methods.


  • #4954
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,065 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Post deleted. Eagle eye permabanned. Please do not respond to their posts.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #4955
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,125 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    What with this repeated ask for people to prove your assertions wrong? It's not the first time you've done it.
    Make an assertion, and then back it up. It's not that hard


  • #4956
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,546 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    pixelburp wrote: »
    Ah look you're going to have to put forward some stats on that - be it from America or Ireland. And in the former, considering the issue here is the precise disenfranchisement of ex-cons, then this is circular logic being indulged, the case being that they don't vote because in some states they can't, or are prevented via noted, demonstrated methods.

    As you said, though, it is well understood many ex felons can't vote by statute, so the statement is correct. In 2016 over 6 million ex felons were disenfranchised

    https://www.sentencingproject.org/publications/felony-disenfranchisement-a-primer/

    I've attached a 2009 JSTOR paper which analyzed ex felon voter turnout. It found it to be as low as 5 percent. They looked at hundreds of eligible felons in Erie County NY and compared it against the board of elections data. Only 1 county though, so not much good on the national level, it would be much better to see a full set of data.

    Hard to tell if this is a cultural thing, ie. if ex felons just assume they don't have the right and don't bother to ask; its certainly not advertised to them, and many corners would rather they feel that way. There's also a potential case of, as the type of antisocials who commit felonies, etc. that they already don't mesh with society anyway, and don't enfranchise themselves regardless. However I don't think this diminishes the need to recognize their right to vote, and it certainly is suppression by the GOP.


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  • #4957
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,416 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    I think it's fair to say that joe Biden isnt the ideal democratic candidate but I've just watched Biden speak on the view with Meghan McCain from four years ago and then at John McCains funeral and it's clear that joe Biden with all his faults has the ability for genuine compassion and empathy towards other people. His eulogy of John McCain is a special speech and one the current president could not deliver with any degree of sincerity.


  • #4958
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    I think it's fair to say that joe Biden isnt the ideal democratic candidate but I've just watched Biden speak on the view with Meghan McCain from four years ago and then at John McCains funeral and it's clear that joe Biden with all his faults has the ability for genuine compassion and empathy towards other people. His eulogy of John McCain is a special speech and one the current president could not deliver with any degree of sincerity.

    True to some extent. John McCain and Joe Biden are largely similar in their views and politics. So of course they can empathise with each other. They are conventional Republican and Democrat politicians, shadowboxing for the sake of public consumption but really agreed on the broad trends of the future of the USA. Trump was supposed to be a revolutionary change to the trajectory of conventional American politics. His failure, and the root cause of his historic defeat in November is that he objectively governed no differently to a Biden or McCain presidency.


  • #4959
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,715 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    eagle eye wrote: »
    Well of we are crying about ex-felons rights we've reached a new low I think. It's hardly that important is it?

    If you acknowledge they are rights, they shouldn’t be paid for. Whether someone was ever convicted of a crime is irrelevant.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • #4960
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,065 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Sand wrote: »
    True to some extent. John McCain and Joe Biden are largely similar in their views and politics. So of course they can empathise with each other. They are conventional Republican and Democrat politicians, shadowboxing for the sake of public consumption but really agreed on the broad trends of the future of the USA. Trump was supposed to be a revolutionary change to the trajectory of conventional American politics. His failure, and the root cause of his historic defeat in November is that he objectively governed no differently to a Biden or McCain presidency.

    I would agree with all but your last point. I don't think Biden or McCain would have taken the US on the isolationist path that Trump chose when he took it out of various international agreements thus undermining the US' status as the defender of freedom and international norms to say nothing of the disastrous handling of the coronavirus pandemic.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #4961
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I would agree with all but your last point. I don't think Biden or McCain would have taken the US on the isolationist path that Trump chose when he took it out of various international agreements thus undermining the US' status as the defender of freedom and international norms to say nothing of the disastrous handling of the coronavirus pandemic.

    I agree, they wouldn't have but that's not the reason Trump's base has abandoned him. US voters do not care about the US being 'the defender of freedom and international norms'. If anything, Trump was elected on the understanding that he would upset the norms. He hasn't.


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  • #4962
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,125 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Sand wrote: »
    I agree, they wouldn't have but that's not the reason Trump's base has abandoned him. US voters do not care about the US being 'the defender of freedom and international norms'. If anything, Trump was elected on the understanding that he would upset the norms. He hasn't.

    Oh he has upset the norms, but just not in the way they're hoping to


  • #4963
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,065 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Sand wrote: »
    I agree, they wouldn't have but that's not the reason Trump's base has abandoned him. US voters do not care about the US being 'the defender of freedom and international norms'. If anything, Trump was elected on the understanding that he would upset the norms. He hasn't.

    Has Trump's base actually abandoned him though? As far as I can tell, it's liberal Republicans who'd be pro-free market and other centrists who'd be the demographic or demographics to desert him along with anyone appalled at how the US has handled the coronavirus pandemic.

    I would have thought his base would be happy enough. He's appointed two conservative supreme court justices, continued to push the culture war and moved the embassy in Israel.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #4964
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    Has Trump's base actually abandoned him though? As far as I can tell, it's liberal Republicans who'd be pro-free market and other centrists who'd be the demographic or demographics to desert him along with anyone appalled at how the US has handled the coronavirus pandemic.

    Nobody can pretend the pandemic is a serious concern anymore. Not after one month of mass gatherings and rioting in US cities, which was endorsed by the good and the great despite the pandemic. That narrative is over.

    Trump's base has abandoned him. He has done nothing for them. Sure, some people who care about moving the US embassy to Jerusalem or are so brainwashed they think Biden is a communist will still vote for him, but he is going to suffer a historic defeat in November.
    I would have thought his base would be happy enough. He's appointed two conservative supreme court justices, continued to push the culture war and moved the embassy in Israel.

    What is a conservative these days? Just in June the Supreme Court ruled to expand LGBTQ rights. Neil Gorsuch, one of Trumps supposedly rock solid 'conservative' picks ruled in favour of it.

    Trump has even failed to deliver for the evangelical Christian supporters which should have been the easiest group to shore up.


  • #4965
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Sand wrote: »
    Nobody can pretend the pandemic is a serious concern anymore. Not after one month of mass gatherings and rioting in US cities, which was endorsed by the good and the great despite the pandemic. That narrative is over.

    Trump's base has abandoned him. He has done nothing for them. Sure, some people who care about moving the US embassy to Jerusalem or are so brainwashed they think Biden is a communist will still vote for him, but he is going to suffer a historic defeat in November.



    What is a conservative these days? Just in June the Supreme Court ruled to expand LGBTQ rights. Neil Gorsuch, one of Trumps supposedly rock solid 'conservative' picks ruled in favour of it.

    Trump has even failed to deliver for the evangelical Christian supporters which should have been the easiest group to shore up.

    No matter whether Trump is still in politics by the next election the republicans will be in power after the next election.

    People have seen through the violent protests by the left so the majority of Americans will vote republican.

    Most people don't turn up to Trump rallys not because of Trump or lack of support for the republican party, but because most people don't go to political rally's.

    They'll vote republican, wait and see


    I said this a few years ago here and I was ran out of the page by Hillary supporters I got some sh1t I'll tell you.

    But wait now and the republicans will be in power after the next election :)


  • #4966
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,125 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    nthclare wrote: »
    No matter whether Trump is still in politics by the next election the republicans will be in power after the next election.

    People have seen through the violent protests by the left so the majority of Americans will vote republican.

    Most people don't turn up to Trump rallys not because of Trump or lack of support for the republican party, but because most people don't go to political rally's.

    They'll vote republican, wait and see


    I said this a few years ago here and I was ran out of the page by Hillary supporters I got some sh1t I'll tell you.

    But wait now and the republicans will be in power after the next election :)
    You say this despite every poll telling you otherwise that not only will the Republicans lose the presidency but potentially the senate too. And those polls are fluctuating, they're a steady decline, and before you say 'oh but 2016 polls were the same. They were within the margin of error and fluctuating, the ones currently are out of the EOM and on a steady trajectory


  • #4967
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    nthclare wrote: »
    People have seen through the violent protests by the left so the majority of Americans will vote republican.

    The left? Those riots were endorsed and supported by every US corporation and wall street firm.

    And Trump demonstrated he couldn't do anything about them. So for those voters who were concerned by the riots, why would they think Trump is the answer?
    But wait now and the republicans will be in power after the next election :)

    It really doesn't matter if its Republicans or Democrats in power.


  • #4968
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,065 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Sand wrote: »
    Nobody can pretend the pandemic is a serious concern anymore. Not after one month of mass gatherings and rioting in US cities, which was endorsed by the good and the great despite the pandemic. That narrative is over.

    Trump's base has abandoned him. He has done nothing for them. Sure, some people who care about moving the US embassy to Jerusalem or are so brainwashed they think Biden is a communist will still vote for him, but he is going to suffer a historic defeat in November.

    What are you basing this on though? I'm not seeing any sign that Trump's base has deserted him. The coronavirus narrative is very much relevant given that we're still in some form of lockdown and there are several more deaths predicted for the US.
    Sand wrote: »
    What is a conservative these days? Just in June the Supreme Court ruled to expand LGBTQ rights. Neil Gorsuch, one of Trumps supposedly rock solid 'conservative' picks ruled in favour of it.

    Trump has even failed to deliver for the evangelical Christian supporters which should have been the easiest group to shore up.

    The supreme court is supposed to uphold the law and serve as a check on the executive, not make conservatives feel good by helping them to oppress marginalised groups.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #4969
    moon2
    Registered Users Posts: 677 ✭✭✭moon2


    Sand wrote: »
    Nobody can pretend the pandemic is a serious concern anymore. Not after one month of mass gatherings and rioting in US cities, which was endorsed by the good and the great despite the pandemic. That narrative is over.

    As the 7 day average has begun ticking back up in excess of 1000 deaths a day, the severity of the pandemic will come into focus again. The states which had previously been less affected are now in trouble.

    Trump has spent over 6 months pretending it wasn't a problem. It's pretty unlikely the rest of the functioning leadership will pretend the same, as is evidenced by Republican controlled states beginning to bring in measures to control the spread.


  • #4970
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Sand wrote: »
    The left? Those riots were endorsed and supported by every US corporation and wall street firm.

    And Trump demonstrated he couldn't do anything about them. So for those voters who were concerned by the riots, why would they think Trump is the answer?



    It really doesn't matter if its Republicans or Democrats in power.

    Well at the end of the day it's about power and not the people.

    I just have a feeling the republicans will be on top again.

    I've been at the ballot box here and I don't vote for any particular party, but more on person who's up for election.

    I gave Michael McNamara my no 1 in Clare and he's doing a great job at asking awkward questions to politicians and business people alike.

    He's a qualified barrister and knows how to defend and turn people on their head's.

    It's a shame political people aren't as qualified for the job...

    I rather put principles before personalities to be honest.

    But Michael is a good man as well as a politician.

    As for Trump he can't say or do anything without triggering people, if he helped an old lady across the road they'ed probably say he undermined an elderly woman by suggesting she couldn't cross the road by herself..

    These moany aul complainers just love drama don't they.

    By the way I'm actually sitting on the Beach in Doughmore Beach right now and I can see Trump's hotel from here...

    It reminds me of Loftus hall in Hook head in Wexford :)

    The devil is in the detail ;)


  • #4971
    Midlife
    Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭Midlife


    Sand wrote: »
    The left? Those riots were endorsed and supported by every US corporation and wall street firm.

    I missed that bit what did it look like?

    I'm assuming there wasn't a 'we're goldman sachs and we endorse this riot' message.


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  • #4972
    moon2
    Registered Users Posts: 677 ✭✭✭moon2


    Midlife wrote: »
    I missed that bit what did it look like?

    I'm assuming there wasn't a 'we're goldman sachs and we endorse this riot' message.

    There's a difference between riots and protests.

    The protests were endorsed and supported world wide.

    Edit: this isn't specifically directed at you - other posters conflate the two too


  • #4973
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,104 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Some incl Trump call all protests they don't agree with riots.
    What the hell is going on in Oregon with people being lifted by unidentifiable 'police'? Serious federal abuse of power.


  • #4974
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users Posts: 18,921 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    nthclare wrote: »
    No matter whether Trump is still in politics by the next election the republicans will be in power after the next election.

    People have seen through the violent protests by the left so the majority of Americans will vote republican.

    Most people don't turn up to Trump rallys not because of Trump or lack of support for the republican party, but because most people don't go to political rally's.

    They'll vote republican, wait and see


    I said this a few years ago here and I was ran out of the page by Hillary supporters I got some sh1t I'll tell you.

    But wait now and the republicans will be in power after the next election :)

    Tbf that poster is a wee bit biased seeing as Trump has brought jobs to Doonbeg and no one should say anything negative about him because of that.


  • #4975
    BorneTobyWilde
    Registered Users Posts: 35,572 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    He's losing his mind
    Kayne falling apart at first rally


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_hXfQ2oK9c


  • #4976
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,546 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    He's losing his mind
    Kayne falling apart at first rally


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_hXfQ2oK9c

    At this same event he declared that everyone that has a baby will get $1 million, and that marijuana 'should be free'

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/kanye-west-kicks-off-1st-presidential-campaign-event/story?id=71869069

    Screams populist attempt to get the required 10k signatures to be on the ballot. If you had caught me with this before Trump ever came along I'd sign him in just out of irony but we all know better now:

    SNIP.


  • #4977
    Rjd2
    Registered Users Posts: 11,992 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    He's losing his mind
    Kayne falling apart at first rally


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_hXfQ2oK9c

    Tbh, I am getting worried about him now, this is not some nefarious scheme to thwart Biden which some suggested initially, this seems like a man spiralling out of control sadly.

    Hopefully his loved ones step in because another few months of this type of "campaigning" along with the constant hammering he will receive online is not what he needs.


  • #4978
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Can't say I follow West's career with any great eagerness, but this is the point where I wonder about his mental state. I remember South Park skewering him years ago for his mercurial ways; this whole affair reminds how the only difference between "mentally ill" and "eccentric" is money or talent - but especially money. Kanye West ain't well, he needs a support network but is a rich musician probably surrounded by sycophants and hangers on. He hasn't a hope (and that's before you get got he question of whether his mental state plays a part of that musical talent, an even larger minefield TBH)


  • #4979
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,962 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    BorneTobyWilde wrote: »
    He's losing his mind
    Kayne falling apart at first rally


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_hXfQ2oK9c

    That's hard to watch..

    The man is clearly struggling and needs time away and professional help.


    So much for his supposed Friends & Family allowing him to do this.


  • #4980
    Shelga
    Registered Users Posts: 3,002 ✭✭✭Shelga


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    That's hard to watch..

    The man is clearly struggling and needs time away and professional help.


    So much for his supposed Friends & Family allowing him to do this.

    That's the thing, why is his family allowing him to do this? They are meant to protect him. He is bipolar and clearly struggling.


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  • #4981
    duploelabs
    Registered Users Posts: 11,125 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs


    Shelga wrote: »
    That's the thing, why is his family allowing him to do this? They are meant to protect him. He is bipolar and clearly struggling.

    In the same manner as to why Trump got to where he is, they just surround themselves with enablers and yes men


This discussion has been closed.
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