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Gay Men in Heterosexual Marriages
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https://www.politicalite.com/entertainment/revealed-phillip-schofield-came-out-after-affair-with-runner-was-about-to-be-exposed/
Seems like this was the driver of Philip's "bravery and courage". This may be just tabloid speculation of course...0 -
https://www.politicalite.com/entertainment/revealed-phillip-schofield-came-out-after-affair-with-runner-was-about-to-be-exposed/
Seems like this was the driver of Philip's "bravery and courage". This may be just tabloid speculation of course...
Feel very sorry for his wife of over 27 years.0 -
It's very likely the tabloids were driving it.
However, the guy's simply TV presenter. It's a job. It may be a high profile job, but it's a still just job. I really fail to see the public interest.
How his marriage operates is frankly none of anyone's business other than his and his wife's.
It's great he opened up a topic of discussion, but the reasons for that are likely that a voyeuristic media outlet wanted to sell a salacious story to give gossipy readers a giddy thrill. That's ultimately what it comes down to.
What I find odd about this is we're all supposedly living in this rather progressive, liberal, open minded society but when something like this happens it's straight back to 1950s conservative social mores.0 -
Should they not just be called frauds or cheats?0
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The most disconcerting aspect of the entire matter is how many people seem to revel in his misfortune. Words like " cheater" and "fraud" get bandied about.
His wife knew.
Just briefly touching on the subject of failed marriages and in particular the topic of bisexuality. I have a lot of friends who are really struggling with their respective wives and husbands. It is tough and contemporary marriages do not have the durability of former generations, rightly or wrongly.
A lot of my friends who are married often discuss that a lack of sex is a real issue. I do ponder, if this is about feelings or preferences of either partner, which are underdeveloped or unnurtured at the commencement of these marriages. I think it is a bigger factor than meets the eye.
The concept of " I am not in the mood tonight honey" or " sorry baby I have a splitting headache".... these lame excuses may have deeper undercurrents.
Bisexuality really needs a more robust and open discussion. Too many people who consider themselves "straight" and heterosexual are terrified of contemplating it. This remains an issue in my opinion. The reality is that there is probably thousands of bisexual people out there trapped in marriages, albeit with partners they deeply love, but whom they are no longer sexually attracted to.
Monogamy may not be the only issue, particularly if either partner is bisexual.0 -
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Should they not just be called frauds or cheats?
Mod
Please adhere to charter and refrain from posting in a disrespectful manner.It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
Terry Pratchet
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@IAMAMORON:
That's why I maintain that present-day societies are only progressive to a point and then things suddenly snap back when it suits a morally outraged tabloid readership, who in reality just want to get a giddy thrill out of someone 'doing the dirt,' and suddenly we're back in the curtain twitching, tongue tutting days of the 1950s.
People's relationships and marriages can be extremely complicated and don't always follow the 'and they all lived happily ever after' storyline of some Hollywood movie. People marry for all sorts of reasons and divorce for all sorts of reasons and may or may not maintain all sorts of complicated relationships that don't quite fit those traditions.
I know several divorced couple show are still quite definitely still very close friends after divorces and all sorts of complicated scenarios like that.
Life's complicated and I think if we spend all our lives going around seeking to be outraged, it makes for a rather dismal and miserable society. Ireland in particular was absolutely full of judgemental conservatives who liked nothing better than to wag their fingers at and even shun anyone who dared to fall outside their narrow world view.
for those who can't get their heads around how someone can not understand their sexual orientation in their 20s (or later) then count yourself very lucky. For a lot of people it's way more complicated than that.1 -
Agree with pretty much with all you say Xertz, life's complicated as is sexual orientation, not everyone fits neatly into defined labels and sexual orientation can change over time. I don't think anyone is truly 100% straight or gay, most have a stronger preference for one or the other sex, but, I think given the right circumstances or meeting the right person anyone could end up in a gay or straight relationship. I think we are beginning to see this in the younger generation as they are more open minded and their sexual orientation appears more fluid than previous generations. Hopefully this will lead to a better more understanding society.0
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Puts a whole other slant on the Schofield story when he followed that kid on twitter when he was 15,think its time he done a Barrymore at this point.0
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Has Schofield got a swimming pool?0
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Mod
Folks this is the lgbt forum. Familiarise yourself with the charter. If you are going down the gay = paedophile route go elsewhere.
Feedback on moderation only by pmIt was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
Terry Pratchet
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368100 wrote:Had a listen to it.....times have changed but I'd imagine it's more common than thought, especially with older couples
A gay chap worked for me in the 80s for a few years. He wore his gayness on the outside. He enjoyed life and had many, many boyfriends over this time. You'd be surprised at how many of his boyfriends were married. Mostly middle aged men with families.
It must be tough on the gay man in the marriage and tough on the family when he eventually comes out. I'd hope that society doesn't push as many gay men into marriage now as it did decades ago0 -
Is it possible that gay men simply want to have the traditional family life? That they like being fathers etc.0
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I was one of the gay men that was on liveline. I wanted to go with my own voice but they wanted to protect my child. I came out last year after been separated for over 2 years, I never while married cheated on my wife. Even before I got married I was never with another man until I separated.
The reason was I didn’t want to be gay, I had to fight it nearly every day since I was about 16. I forced myself to go out with woman. I finally couldn’t fight it anymore as it was killing me and came out to everyone last year.
It was a shock to all as I’m not stereotypical gay so to speak. My ex was deeply hurt and I regret and was deeply sorry that our marriage was a lie.0 -
I was one of the gay men that was on liveline. I wanted to go with my own voice but they wanted to protect my child. I came out last year after been separated for over 2 years, I never while married cheated on my wife. Even before I got married I was never with another man until I separated.
The reason was I didn’t want to be gay, I had to fight it nearly every day since I was about 16. I forced myself to go out with woman. I finally couldn’t fight it anymore as it was killing me and came out to everyone last year.
It was a shock to all as I’m not stereotypical gay so to speak. My ex was deeply hurt and I regret and was deeply sorry that our marriage was a lie.
Brave thing to do all the same so fair play0 -
Hi, i have been married about 12 years now and but was 7 years with the person before marraige so 19 years in total. i had certain feelings when i was younger but i didnt really no how to handle them or what i wanted so i ignored them until i was in my twenties when i accepted i was bisexual, at this point i was going out with my current wife and decided that is what i wanted so went ahead with the marraige. At times the feelings can be pretty strong and i wonder have i made the right choice and then other times i have no feeling about men at all which always leads me to belive that i made the correct choice.
Over the last year thought the feleings have become stronger and i have been doing alot of thinking, as the months have passed i have noticed other things in my relationship which i never questioned before but now do. My wife does not know i am bisexual as she was very homophobic when younger but lately has relaxed her view somewhat, i am in the process of planning to tell her how i feel and im hoping she will accept, atleast if she knows this, i can see what the future holds and wheter its built up more in my head because she doesnt know or whether its the other life i want to live. Also on a sidenote, i have never cheated on my wife with anyone but i worry if i dont tell her and things build up i might go down a bad road.
I know this post is probably all over the place and making no sense but i have been watching it a while now and always said i should put my story across.0 -
First of all I would just like to say that as a bi guy, I can appreciate where you're coming from as sometimes we are quite misunderstood and I think sort of 'fall between two stools'.
On the one hand, we need to be able to be open about our own sense of identity and proud to be bi, but on the other hand that does not mean that we aren't able to commit to one person be it in a heterosexual or homosexual relationship.
By coming out as bi, it does not mean that you want to run off and go out with someone else, rather that you are just trying to tell people about how you experienced the world and be visible and proud of who you are. This is where it will tend to cause confusion for straight or even some gay people who are somewhat confused by the concept of being bisexual and believe me, I've encountered as much (if not more) bad advice and judgemental statements from gay men as I have from straight women on this topic.
I would suggest perhaps contacting the Bi or LGBT groups via one of the community centres in Dublin or Cork (I'm not familiar with the other cities as much) but there are supports out there in terms of social groups and so on for bi people.
I fully appreciate that you do not want to or intend to cheat on your wife, and that you are just communicating who you are and wanting to be comfortable with yourself, but just approach the topic with extreme delicacy as some people can jump to all sorts of conclusions or have a total misunderstanding of what it is to be bi.
I would suggest that you make contact with an LGBT support group, preferable a bigger one with more experience i.e. in one of the cities, before you make any announcements and just talk it through with someone face to face.
They can even provide you with a list of LGBT or even specifically bi aware counsellors and so on should you need serious emotional support.
All I would say is don't rush, talk to someone in one of those organisations (and I think actually other posters here might be able to direct you better than I would) but just take your time and have a discussion.0 -
tommymoate wrote: »Hi, i have been married about 12 years now and but was 7 years with the person before marraige so 19 years in total. i had certain feelings when i was younger but i didnt really no how to handle them or what i wanted so i ignored them until i was in my twenties when i accepted i was bisexual, at this point i was going out with my current wife and decided that is what i wanted so went ahead with the marraige. At times the feelings can be pretty strong and i wonder have i made the right choice and then other times i have no feeling about men at all which always leads me to belive that i made the correct choice.
Over the last year thought the feleings have become stronger and i have been doing alot of thinking, as the months have passed i have noticed other things in my relationship which i never questioned before but now do. My wife does not know i am bisexual as she was very homophobic when younger but lately has relaxed her view somewhat, i am in the process of planning to tell her how i feel and im hoping she will accept, atleast if she knows this, i can see what the future holds and wheter its built up more in my head because she doesnt know or whether its the other life i want to live. Also on a sidenote, i have never cheated on my wife with anyone but i worry if i dont tell her and things build up i might go down a bad road.
I know this post is probably all over the place and making no sense but i have been watching it a while now and always said i should put my story across.
Hi Tommymoate, you need to thread carefully here and really think this through before telling your wife. You've been with your wife almost 20 years and not given her any reason to suspect that you are attracted to men. She is likely to wonder what else you are hiding from her and will probably not believe that you haven't cheated on her with another man. Even though you are bi she will probably assume that you are gay and that your marriage is just a cover and any trust she has for you will be gone.
You really need to think what will be achieved by telling her that you are bi especially if you intend to stay faithful to your wife. Are you expecting your wife to give you permission to explore your bi feelings? If you intend to act on your bi feelings then it's probably best that you tell your wife first., obviously this would likely lead to your marriage breaking down.
You know your wife better that anyone so have a better idea how she will react, but, I would error on the side of caution here.Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.0 -
Hi Tommymoate, you need to thread carefully here and really think this through before telling your wife. You've been with your wife almost 20 years and not given her any reason to suspect that you are attracted to men. She is likely to wonder what else you are hiding from her and will probably not believe that you haven't cheated on her with another man. Even though you are bi she will probably assume that you are gay and that your marriage is just a cover and any trust she has for you will be gone.
You really need to think what will be achieved by telling her that you are bi especially if you intend to stay faithful to your wife. Are you expecting your wife to give you permission to explore your bi feelings? If you intend to act on your bi feelings then it's probably best that you tell your wife first., obviously this would likely lead to your marriage breaking down.
You know your wife better that anyone so have a better idea how she will react, but, I would error on the side of caution here.Best of luck in whatever you decide to do.
Thanks for the replies. i know exactly what you are both saying. im not sure what i hope to achieve by telling her, i just fear if i dont and this builds up in my head more that it might lead to eventual marraige breakdown. My feelings have grown this last 12 months and i just worry i will get to a point where my wife is not enough and i need more, and i dont want to do that to her. I would not tell her in the hope she allows me to explore my bi side, she would never do that. I think i feel im cheating on her by being bi and her not knowing.0 -
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I don't envy your situation and I wish you the best in what ever you decide. Remember you can't unring a bell, once you tell your wife everything will change forever, be prepared for alot of heartache. Your wife is likely to be heartbroken when you tell her and is unlikely to believe or trust in you again. In the long run it may well be for the best, it's impossible for anyone here to know. As I've said previously you know your wife better than anyone and have a better idea how she is likely to react.tommymoate wrote: »Thanks for the replies. i know exactly what you are both saying. im not sure what i hope to achieve by telling her, i just fear if i dont and this builds up in my head more that it might lead to eventual marraige breakdown. My feelings have grown this last 12 months and i just worry i will get to a point where my wife is not enough and i need more, and i dont want to do that to her. I would not tell her in the hope she allows me to explore my bi side, she would never do that. I think i feel im cheating on her by being bi and her not knowing.0 -
tommymoate wrote: »Thanks for the replies. i know exactly what you are both saying. im not sure what i hope to achieve by telling her, i just fear if i dont and this builds up in my head more that it might lead to eventual marraige breakdown. My feelings have grown this last 12 months and i just worry i will get to a point where my wife is not enough and i need more, and i dont want to do that to her. I would not tell her in the hope she allows me to explore my bi side, she would never do that. I think i feel im cheating on her by being bi and her not knowing.
It sounds like you could be in a tight spot mentally over this. Don't beat yourself up over it. Having sexual urges for someone else are extremely normal.
Have you started exploring any of your urges or feelings? I say this as someone with a high libido. What are you experiencing? Are you fantasising or have you actually started to crush a male friend you know?
There is no crime in day-dreaming sexually... at all. I do it all the time. It is how you carry out these fantasies that matter, particularly if they are not including your wife sexually. Thread carefully, especially with your wife's feelings. It may just be an itch you need to scratch, you could tip your toe in the water and find out it is far too cold for your liking, or …. you could be missing out on some really good sex, either way do not deprive yourself. This is your life.
My best advice is to experiment behind your wife's back. I know that sounds sinister but it will give you the opportunity to not hurt her feelings. That is important. If you find you want to progress further with this sexuality you will need to consider ending your marriage. I find with my own sexuality that it is better to not waste anyone's time, I have a few loose relationships with both sexes, it works for me and I am not wasting anyone's time or emotions. I am not married and I am not hurting anyone's feelings, it works for me. The downside is that I am not massively close to any one particular person, but I am fine with this. I have a lot of platonic friends of both sexes, although I find it difficult to be platonic with females, I don't know why but eventually I end up wanting to tear their clothes off and have passionate sex with them on the kitchen floor ( or something similar).
Everyone is different. Be careful with any initial encounters. Gay men can generate strong feelings for their sexual partners, so respect that and be nice. What could be some decent sex for you could well be a lot more emotional for them, try not to forget that. Don't let them manipulate you either, the argument that someone is either gay or straight is garbage, but a lot of gay men are not bi-sexual, some will be less understanding of your sexuality than others.
Most importantly , if you are going to explore these feelings please please please try to enjoy yourself. Sex is a great form of expression, don't deny that to yourself. You don't have to feel guilty or sad about having some sex, congratulate yourself for enjoying one of life's pleasures.0 -
It sounds like you could be in a tight spot mentally over this. Don't beat yourself up over it. Having sexual urges for someone else are extremely normal.
Have you started exploring any of your urges or feelings? I say this as someone with a high libido. What are you experiencing? Are you fantasising or have you actually started to crush a male friend you know?
There is no crime in day-dreaming sexually... at all. I do it all the time. It is how you carry out these fantasies that matter, particularly if they are not including your wife sexually. Thread carefully, especially with your wife's feelings. It may just be an itch you need to scratch, you could tip your toe in the water and find out it is far too cold for your liking, or …. you could be missing out on some really good sex, either way do not deprive yourself. This is your life.
My best advice is to experiment behind your wife's back. I know that sounds sinister but it will give you the opportunity to not hurt her feelings. That is important. If you find you want to progress further with this sexuality you will need to consider ending your marriage. I find with my own sexuality that it is better to not waste anyone's time, I have a few loose relationships with both sexes, it works for me and I am not wasting anyone's time or emotions. I am not married and I am not hurting anyone's feelings, it works for me. The downside is that I am not massively close to any one particular person, but I am fine with this. I have a lot of platonic friends of both sexes, although I find it difficult to be platonic with females, I don't know why but eventually I end up wanting to tear their clothes off and have passionate sex with them on the kitchen floor ( or something similar).
Everyone is different. Be careful with any initial encounters. Gay men can generate strong feelings for their sexual partners, so respect that and be nice. What could be some decent sex for you could well be a lot more emotional for them, try not to forget that. Don't let them manipulate you either, the argument that someone is either gay or straight is garbage, but a lot of gay men are not bi-sexual, some will be less understanding of your sexuality than others.
Most importantly , if you are going to explore these feelings please please please try to enjoy yourself. Sex is a great form of expression, don't deny that to yourself. You don't have to feel guilty or sad about having some sex, congratulate yourself for enjoying one of life's pleasures.
Thanks for your reply, i really appreciate it.
To answer your first question, its both, i constantly fantisise about sex with men, some days its all i think about, i have also developed crushes along the way too, and the latest one is quite strong, i dont know the person well at all but have become friendly and hugely attracted to him and he is what i fantisise about most of the time.
I would say myself and my wife have a good sex life, we have regular sex, maybe 3 times a week, at different times i would fantisise during it about men, lately that has become a bit more, over the last month i have noticed that at times im more happy when we finish than during it. My worry is that although i find sex good with my wife, my mind wonders if i was with a man would i enjoy it more, would i find it mindblowing etc.....
Saying all this, i do find women hugely attractive, if i saw a pretty woman on the street i would find her attractive, while that does not happen with men as much, rarely would i look at a man and saw wow hes hot, but if i get to know them i would develop a crush then and sexually thats what i would think about.
Long story short,at the moment in my head i am bisexual who finds women more attractive but would prefer to be having sex with a man.
I have never cheated on my wife and im not sure i would be able to, i think the guilt would eat me up, also the fear of her finding out would be tough.
Sorry now i probably sound a bit mad but thats where i am at the moment0 -
tommymoate wrote: »Thanks for your reply, i really appreciate it.
To answer your first question, its both, i constantly fantisise about sex with men, some days its all i think about, i have also developed crushes along the way too, and the latest one is quite strong, i dont know the person well at all but have become friendly and hugely attracted to him and he is what i fantisise about most of the time.
I would say myself and my wife have a good sex life, we have regular sex, maybe 3 times a week, at different times i would fantisise during it about men, lately that has become a bit more, over the last month i have noticed that at times im more happy when we finish than during it. My worry is that although i find sex good with my wife, my mind wonders if i was with a man would i enjoy it more, would i find it mindblowing etc.....
Saying all this, i do find women hugely attractive, if i saw a pretty woman on the street i would find her attractive, while that does not happen with men as much, rarely would i look at a man and saw wow hes hot, but if i get to know them i would develop a crush then and sexually thats what i would think about.
Long story short,at the moment in my head i am bisexual who finds women more attractive but would prefer to be having sex with a man.
I have never cheated on my wife and im not sure i would be able to, i think the guilt would eat me up, also the fear of her finding out would be tough.
Sorry now i probably sound a bit mad but thats where i am at the moment
I find sex with men can be very different to sex with women, for many reasons. You need to explore this for your own sanity.
Stop feeling guilty about your desires, they are normal. As I said, dip your toes and see what happens. I respect that you might feel guilty about your wife, but don't beat yourself up over it. I won't or can't lecture you over the perils of infidelity, I am not married, but the way I see it what she doesn't know won't hurt her. Although given the prolificity of your married sex life your wife might smell a rat if you are not performing your espousal duties:). Be cautious.
Don't live your life in guilt or fear. Take responsibility for what you are doing and either do it or don't. But don't waste anyone's time either, including your wife's.0 -
IAMAMORON wrote:I find sex with men can be very different to sex with women, for many reasons. You need to explore this for your own sanity.IAMAMORON wrote:Stop feeling guilty about your desires, they are normal. As I said, dip your toes and see what happens. I respect that you might feel guilty about your wife, but don't beat yourself up over it. I won't or can't lecture you over the perils of infidelity, I am not married, but the way I see it what she doesn't know won't hurt her. Although given the prolificity of your married sex life your wife might smell a rat if you are not performing your espousal duties . Be cautious.
I cannot disagree with this more.
Absolutely horrible advice and incredibly selfish attitude to promote.
If you are planning on cheating on your wife, break up with her.
If you had any respect for her or cared about her in any way, it's the very very least you can do.0 -
Ironicname wrote: »I cannot disagree with this more.
Absolutely horrible advice and incredibly selfish attitude to promote.
If you are planning on cheating on your wife, break up with her.
If you had any respect for her or cared about her in any way, it's the very very least you can do.
I agree with you. You are technically correct, infidelity is wrong. I did allude to this also when giving my advices.
In this particular instance we are discussing a life changing experience based on fantasies and emotions the poster is having. My attitude is why spoil a marriage over an urge? It could well be that the poster discovers he is not that into it when he starts, why destroy a marriage at that point? I did indicate that if the poster was to pursue an extra relationship he would need to consider properly ending his marriage, if you read my post thoroughly you would see that.
On the contrary my attitude is that by being deviant and going behind her back you are in fact protecting her feelings and caring for her simultaneously. It is damage limitation, sinister yes, but in my opinion a necessary evil. Why destroy an entire marriage over a couple of sexual encounters?0 -
IAMAMORON wrote:On the contrary my attitude is that by being deviant and going behind her back you are in fact protecting her feelings and caring for her simultaneously. It is damage limitation, sinister yes, but in my opinion a necessary evil. Why destroy an entire marriage over a couple of sexual encounters?
Because a marriage is based on trust. Having sex with another person is a huge betrayal and incredibly selfish. There is no "need" that negates that.0 -
Ironicname wrote: »Because a marriage is based on trust. Having sex with another person is a huge betrayal and incredibly selfish. There is no "need" that negates that.
I understand your sentiment. I don't necessarily believe it however. I have an open mind around marriage, especially sexually. I think you can still be faithful and truthful to a spouse while still having a minor fling with someone, as long as it is minor. As I said if things develop and get serious the situation changes.0 -
IAMAMORON wrote:I understand your sentiment. I don't necessarily believe it however. I have an open mind around marriage, especially sexually. I think you can still be faithful and truthful to a spouse while still having a minor fling with someone, as long as it is minor. As I said if things develop and get serious the situation changes.
No. No you can't. There is nothing truthful or faithful about sleeping with someone behind your partner's back.0 -
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Ironicname wrote: »No. No you can't. There is nothing truthful or faithful about sleeping with someone behind your partner's back.
I agree. But that is not really what is being discussed on this thread. I am well aware of the common sanctities of marriage. But this conversation is about gay people who are married and about how they address that matter.
Would you be willing to threaten the livelihood of your children and your wife's happiness to enable you to have a clear conscience over one or two sexual indiscretions? Think of all the money you would waste on solicitor's fees and all the hurt you could cause your wife and kids just by blabbing one aspect of your life to her? Madness, no matter how fickle or unscrupulous it might make you feel.
The thing about matrimony is that it is the members of that partnership who get to decide their own norms and rules. Can you accept that?0
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