Has ignoring red lights gotten a lot worse?

Zipppy · 08-02-2019 8:12pm

Zipppy wrote:

At last...citu badly needs this type of service...daughter is in Vancouver and the Eco Car service there is similar to this..bleeperbike of cars...and it's fab. We live near city centre..could be persuaded to get rid if our car...

Macy0161 wrote:

And we have more pedestrian lights because the authorities have given up on zebra crossings as motorists don't know/ care/ ignore the rules around them so they are a danger to pedestrians. I'd assume that's why most of the new pedestrian crossing lights don't have a flashing amber either - motorists can't be trusted.

You're spot on..irish drivers completely ignore the laws .. ah sure it'll be grand..hence authorities need to compensate..

magicbastarder · 10-02-2019 2:28pm

https://twitter.com/TheAgenda/status/959272692049354753

i wonder has anyone done a study on this in ireland?

EdgeCase · 10-02-2019 4:32pm

Plug in a few well positioned red light cameras at various locations and have a public campaign similar to the speeding ones and you'd see a massive fall off in this very quickly.

There's no enforcement or public education campaign going on and an occasional thing has become endemic.

First Up · 10-02-2019 4:34pm

EdgeCase wrote:

Plug in a few well positioned ref light cameras at various locations and have a public campaign similar to the speeding ones and you'd see a massive fall off in this very quickly.

Yep, that's the only way to cure it.

10-02-2019 4:50pm

First Up wrote: »

Yep, that's the only way to cure it.

or use the Russian light sequence, the instant it's red in one way it's green for cross traffic.
Red light runners get their cars crushed!

Problem solved!

First Up · 10-02-2019 4:52pm

Deleted User wrote:

Problem solved!

It hasn't stopped crashes in Russia if YouTube is anything to go by.

CramCycle · 10-02-2019 4:54pm

No public campaign, that's why the speed cameras don't work, a majority of drivers know the locations and slow just before where they are normally found giving a false sense that speeding is not an issue.

Red light cameras, tagged in with average speed software. Install them in a few random places around the major urban areas, and slowly expand it over time. After the first influx of fines, it will drop dramatically , then it will increase a bit as people think they`ve figured out which ones then as it expands and the second large wave of fines comes, it will drop significantly as Most people will realise it's easier not to speed and not break lights rather than trying to game the system.
Tie it into revenue commission, catch people who declared off road, who are out of tax for over a month and then tie in the NCT system. Anyone out of date Not on their way to a test van get popped.
Christ, the points accrued by some in the first six Months will solve the congestion issues as so many will be off the road.
I'd be in favour of fines and points, but happy with either or,.
I'd also be in favour of the whole system going to the revue commission, only crowd who can get what down without hassle or PR issues.

10-02-2019 5:18pm

First Up wrote: »

It hasn't stopped crashes in Russia if YouTube is anything to go by.

True, but there are far fewer chancers there as they're certain to crash, the only people who appear to "jump the lights" there are probably drunk or simply not looking at the lights.

jochenstacker · 10-02-2019 9:03pm

CramCycle wrote: »

No public campaign, that's why the speed cameras don't work, a majority of drivers know the locations and slow just before where they are normally found giving a false sense that speeding is not an issue.

The one and only road safety campaign that every single person in Ireland is guaranteed to have seen is "Speed Kills".
Add to that the advent of points and eventual ban from the road plus the ill-fated Traffic Corps, one has to say that the only campaign (besides drink driving) that has been consequently pursued is the one about speeding.
I remember how people drove in Ireland in the 90's and it's completely different today.
Yes, people speed, yes the know where the cameras are, but the attitude on the whole has improved.

And the same can be done for red light jumpers. Cameras, points, fines, bans and public awareness campaigns and it can all be easily sorted.
There will be a few cranks and weirdos bitching and moaning initially, but you just have to ignore the Joe Duffy Brigade (Jaysis, it had only just gone red Joe, it's a disgrace!) and keep it up, people will soon learn manners.

AndrewJRenko · 10-02-2019 9:41pm

jochenstacker wrote: »

The one and only road safety campaign that every single person in Ireland is guaranteed to have seen is "Speed Kills".
Add to that the advent of points and eventual ban from the road plus the ill-fated Traffic Corps, one has to say that the only campaign (besides drink driving) that has been consequently pursued is the one about speeding.
I remember how people drove in Ireland in the 90's and it's completely different today.
Yes, people speed, yes the know where the cameras are, but the attitude on the whole has improved.

I'm not so sure that attitudes really have improved. Yes, we have less drink driving, and we have less bangers on the road thanks to NCT, but apart from that, attitudes on the road are fairly atrocious.

Most drivers break speed limits on every journey. Large numbers of drivers are on their phones at every set of traffic lights, and quite a few are on their phones while driving, whether calling, texting, scrolling or having video-chats with family.

jochenstacker · 11-02-2019 7:32am

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

jochenstacker wrote: »

The one and only road safety campaign that every single person in Ireland is guaranteed to have seen is "Speed Kills".
Add to that the advent of points and eventual ban from the road plus the ill-fated Traffic Corps, one has to say that the only campaign (besides drink driving) that has been consequently pursued is the one about speeding.
I remember how people drove in Ireland in the 90's and it's completely different today.
Yes, people speed, yes the know where the cameras are, but the attitude on the whole has improved.

I'm not so sure that attitudes really have improved. Yes, we have less drink driving, and we have less bangers on the road thanks to NCT, but apart from that, attitudes on the road are fairly atrocious.

Most drivers break speed limits on every journey. Large numbers of drivers are on their phones at every set of traffic lights, and quite a few are on their phones while driving, whether calling, texting, scrolling or having video-chats with family.

And that is absolutely true.
And it's still better compared to the 90's.

Back then there were no penalty points. You could drive through the country and be caught for speeding 17 times, as long as you paid your fine, you could keep right on speeding.
Companies would pay the fines for drivers that had to cover the entire country in one day.
To me the biggest game changers were penalty points and the motorway network.

I am absolutely not saying everything is fine, it's just different.
Back then, there were a lot of extremely aggressive drivers and a lot of very passive aggressive slow drivers that would try and hold up the fasters ones.
Today there's more of a miasma of general incompetence and general disregard for the rules.
And that was kind of the aim of the RSA.
You couldn't teach people to drive properly, but you could slow them down.
What you get is a huge sea of incompetence, but not as many killed.

RacoonQueen · 11-02-2019 7:46am

CramCycle wrote: »

Christ, the points accrued by some in the first six Months will solve the congestion issues as so many will be off the road.
I'd be in favour of fines and points, but happy with either or,.
I'd also be in favour of the whole system going to the revue commission, only crowd who can get what down without hassle or PR issues.

Jesus, imagine the uproar.
"It's too easy to get 12 points and be disqualified"
"Flash for cash cameras at the lights now"
"i had to break the red light"
"The amber wasn't on long enough"
"The car behind me would have rear ended me" - had a pleasant 'discussion' with someone on twitter who said he had to speed at the M7 roadworks because the trucks and buses behind him are speeding and will just rear end him if he doesn't speed. :rolleyes:

etc

L1011 · 11-02-2019 9:53am

Red light cameras in many US cities increased rear-ending collisions hugely and they've been taken out in some cities due to it. Points only would stop any claims of it being a revenue measure

GreeBo · 11-02-2019 9:59am

L1011 wrote: »

Red light cameras in many US cities increased rear-ending collisions hugely and they've been taken out in some cities due to it. Points only would stop any claims of it being a revenue measure

It'll get worse before it gets better.

CramCycle · 11-02-2019 10:26am

L1011 wrote: »

Red light cameras in many US cities increased rear-ending collisions hugely and they've been taken out in some cities due to it. Points only would stop any claims of it being a revenue measure

Only one study I can find, and to be honest, all it really seems to say is that it makes no difference to accident rates, certain types drop, others increase but overall, very little changes. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457506000273
There are several issues with the study, and they admit that there are issues, particularly in regards left on red, observation etc. They also talk about 8 months of data collection but in reality, they only capture one month of data after citations started, and that was within the first three months after they were installed. The one overwhelming thing that can be said is that placement of red light cameras reduces red light running. Accidents fluctuate in their type but seemingly not so much in their severity.

GreeBo wrote: »

It'll get worse before it gets better.

And no study I can see has done enough to say this assertion is wrong, the Chicago tribune has there own one but it reads like something the Metro put together and does not appear to look at other conflating issues.

magicbastarder · 11-02-2019 10:29am

they do say the number of t-bones reduced, but the number of rear-endings went up. would be curious about injury rates - a t-bone strikes me as a less pleasant crash to be in.

EdgeCase · 11-02-2019 11:16am

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it was also just a non-statistically based reaction by some local politicians in a particular city because some of their constituents were annoyed with getting tickets for breaking read lights.

I would add the cameras and extend the orange phase of the sequence by 1 to 2 seconds to give better warning.

The orange phase should be longer on roads that are >50km/h in my opinion anyway.

11-02-2019 1:08pm

EdgeCase wrote: »

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it was also just a non-statistically based reaction by some local politicians in a particular city because some of their constituents were annoyed with getting tickets for breaking read lights.

I would add the cameras and extend the orange phase of the sequence by 1 to 2 seconds to give better warning.

The orange phase should be longer on roads that are >50km/h in my opinion anyway.

The amber time is already based on the speed limit of that road.
A longer amber would be of limited use, probably better to use the Russian idea of a flashing green a couple of seconds before the Amber light and remove the pause after the red, that encourages ted light jumping.

jochenstacker · 11-02-2019 10:58pm

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Jesus, imagine the uproar.
"It's too easy to get 12 points and be disqualified"
"Flash for cash cameras at the lights now"
"i had to break the red light"
"The amber wasn't on long enough"
"The car behind me would have rear ended me" - had a pleasant 'discussion' with someone on twitter who said he had to speed at the M7 roadworks because the trucks and buses behind him are speeding and will just rear end him if he doesn't speed. :rolleyes:

etc

Well, I've seen the introduction of the theory test, penalty points, NCT, the RSA, the traffic corps and a drive to make drink driving socially unacceptable.
Some people will piss and moan about it, but they get waved aside and after a year most of them shut up, except for some serious cranks.
All the excuses were already wheeled out for speeding and drink driving and as the campaign said, none of them work.
This could very easily be railroaded through, because any arguments against curbing red light jumping are lost before their proponent even opens their mouth.
I say do it and be utterly Stalinistic about it.

CramCycle · 11-02-2019 11:06pm

Went from Bray into town last Saturday afternoon, no heavy traffic on the way there or the way back but the red light jumping was as bad as rush hour, only one junction had no red light jumpers, and that was because weveryoen made it through before the light changed, it was phenomenal, it really is just the norm nowadays.

ZX7R · 19-02-2019 8:43pm

Saw a woman not just jump but got anoyed at waiting for the green at the railway bridge in Kildare town this afternoon, she broke the red made it have way over the bridge nearly going head on into a van.
Had to say I had to laugh at her panic ridden reversing to let the line of on coming traffic through.

trellheim · 19-02-2019 9:47pm

I have to say RLJs are my pet hate . Most of them do not see why it is wrong and go nuts when I accuse them of being tools

magicbastarder · 19-02-2019 11:16pm

waiting at the lights on east wall road this morning, waiting to turn right onto east wall road (if you know the junction, this should make sense). a full three seconds after the lights had turned red for crossing traffic, and after the light had turned green for me, a flatbed truck carrying (am plucking a figure out of the air) 20 or 30 tons of reinforced concrete on the back drove through the red without any attempt at slowing.

downtheroad · 23-02-2019 9:42am

So we have the technology but there is no plan to roll it out across the country.

1,300 road users detected breaking red lights at busy Luas junction in Smithfield https://jrnl.ie/4501812

AndrewJRenko · 23-02-2019 10:57am

downtheroad wrote: »

So we have the technology but there is no plan to roll it out across the country.

1,300 road users detected breaking red lights at busy Luas junction in Smithfield https://jrnl.ie/4501812

It's much, much worse than that. It's not just that there is no plan to roll it out further. They've actually stopped prosecutions from the one and only camera that we have, because it was too much bother apparently.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/camera-that-caught-1-300-drivers-running-red-lights-now-lying-idle-g696v3fh6

What Username Guidelines · 06-03-2019 9:26am

Something I posted on the cycling forum as well from this morning

--

Christchurch this morning, 3 cars through red from Thomas Street. I must be getting immune to it, because the first two I thought "weren't too bad", but the last was quite blatant as there were cyclists already half way across the junction.

He continues on towards Lord Edward Street, pedestrian lights go red, our hero plows on through, as a pedestrian is stepping into the road waving his arms. Good stuff. I catch up to him at the next lights and he's got his head buried in his phone, texting. Doesn't spot me, but his passenger sees me looking and gives me the two fingers, window comes down, with the usual "**** off". I hadn't even said anything, hadn't actually planned on saying anything, but when I mentioned he had just broken two red lights, I get "**** off, I broke one red light". Silly me, eh?

The kicker? There's a Garda car behind him the whole time. The frustrating reality? They saw it all, and when I motion to them about the phone, I get glared at by the Gardai, who continue on, uninterested. On the plus side, they did let me move out to go around the truck and van parked in cycle lane on double yellows though, which was nice of them.

The rest of the commute had me seriously considering whether I should give up cycling. It's becoming beyond frustrating.

ongarboy · 08-03-2019 11:02am

I find recently that even when the traffic lights go red, there is an increasing delay before the pedestrian lights go green. It's like the traffic planners have accepted that they have to account for increasing amounts of red light breakers.

It's worrying that the cops really don't give a s**t about it even when it happens before their very eyes.

What Username Guidelines · 08-03-2019 11:15am

ongarboy wrote: »

I find recently that even when the traffic lights go red, there is an increasing delay before the pedestrian lights go green. It's like the traffic planners have accepted that they have to account for increasing amounts of red light breakers.

And this increasing delay is what gives some road users more confidence in breaking lights.

LeChienMefiant · 08-03-2019 2:59pm

ongarboy wrote: »

I find recently that even when the traffic lights go red, there is an increasing delay before the pedestrian lights go green. It's like the traffic planners have accepted that they have to account for increasing amounts of red light breakers.

It's worrying that the cops really don't give a s**t about it even when it happens before their very eyes.

I've had this confirmed in writing by the council. It is by design that there is a delay for pedestrians lights.

Ray Bloody Purchase · 08-03-2019 3:21pm

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

I've had this confirmed in writing by the council. It is by design that there is a delay for pedestrians lights.

That is an absolutely ridiculous decision which by design will increase the abuse and risks associated with this type of behaviour.

Has ignoring red lights gotten a lot worse?

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