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Suicide and men.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,834 ✭✭✭statto25


    I most likely will die via own hands in 30 years when i am in 50's. I cannot guarantee that though as who knows what pills will be on the market at that time. As things stand i only intend to live for as long as parents live as it would be a cruel thing to die whilst they are alive. I don't have the mental strength, personality or skills to survive in this world. Just think about it logically, I will be in my 50s, all alone and broken by the world and still faced with another 10-15 years of work, why should i have to suffer through that? I can understand why it would be wrong for a man with children to kill themselves but why would it be wrong for a loner? The funny thing is the neighbours will probably say "It was a rash decision" yet I would have had it planned for 30 years.


    Pills are not the answer in my opinion, talking is. I think the importance of talking to a professional about what you're feeling is as important as taking medication. Medication is important as it can help with fatigue, irritability etc but in reality the depression or suicidal thoughts are still there but are being suppressed. The key to finding out why you feel this way is to talk and keep talking until you come to terms with it.



    I myself are currently going through a very rough time and have suicidal thoughts almost every day. I have spent my life depressed going back to my childhood and this depression has taken on many forms and in some ways made worse by the actions of others to "help" me.



    It is only in the last 12 months I have decided to do something about it after having a huge realisation which is probably the most dramatic step ill ever take. I have lost family and time with my child over it and while these steps have brought on these thoughts of self harm, I feel like a I am in control of my destiny to an extent. These thoughts are from my own actions rather than the input of others. I am trying to work towards a better life where my happiness is genuine rather than happiness through materialistic things or an imposed happiness. Life is there to be enjoyed and not to be enjoyed because you should.
    Talking to a professional although expensive has helped me no end. Without that support and in my case this was my only support unfortunately I would be dead, i've no doubt of that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,862 ✭✭✭iptba


    The number of women dying by suicide increased by almost 50 per cent last year compared with 2018, new figures show.

    The data from a Central Statistics Office (CSO) report published on Friday shows 104 females died by suicide in 2019, compared with 70 the year before - an increase of 48.5 per cent.

    CSO figures show 80 women also died in 2017 and 81 died in 2016.

    There were 421 deaths by suicide last year, of which 317 were among males - an increase of 12 per cent from 282 in 2018.

    The number of suicides last year represents an almost 20 per cent increase on 2018, when 352 were recorded. That had represented a decline, after the 392 recorded in 2017 and 399 in 2016.
    Among the 421 deaths by suicide were three in the five years to 14 years age-group, 90 among 35 to 44-year-olds and two among people aged 85 or older.
    For help call: Samaritans Free Call 116 123 or Pieta House 1800 247 247
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/number-of-women-dying-by-suicide-increased-by-almost-50-last-year-1.4266162


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,862 ✭✭✭iptba


    I'm a big fan of this blogger/independent researcher.


    Here's a recent article they put together. Unfortunately the language in this summary might be a bit difficult to understand for some people, perhaps?


    http://empathygap.uk/Male%20Suicide.pdf

    Author: Dr Rick Bradford (independent, author of The Empathy Gap, Ref.[1])

    Web sites: http://empathygap.uk (blog); http://rickbradford.co.uk (professional)

    Title: Male Suicide (England & Wales)


    Extract:

    The Peculiar Narrative on Male Suicide


    As an illustration of prevailing narratives on male suicide I use those sections of Ref.[6] which relate to psychology, sociological issues, and “masculinities” (i.e., the prevailing narrative on gender). I make no attempt at a complete review in these very brief notes. My aim is to illustrate how exogenous factors are re-interpreted as internal factors, a tendency which – though probably unconscious by the authors of Ref.[6] – serves the purpose of aligning the proffered causality with the dominant discourses on gender. This is achieved by “pretzel logic”: a willingness to yield to confirmation bias by contorting explanations or by using misleading nomenclature. Some examples are,


    [1] A key psychological factor identified is described as “socially prescribed perfectionism”. Social perfectionism is defined as the perception that one must always meet the expectations of others, coupled with these prescribed standards being unrealistic. Note how the use of the word “perfectionism” in this context is inappropriate. What is actually being identified is “social obligation” or perhaps “socially imposed burden”. The distinction between “perfectionism” and “obligation” or “burden” is crucial and revealing. “Perfectionism” suggests the fault lies within the mind of the man in question: a character flaw or psychological weakness. In contrast, the words “obligation” or “burden”, which seem more apposite, indicate an imposition upon the man from society. The distinction is therefore between victim blaming and being victimised. Narratives surrounding male disadvantages almost always favour the former.


    [2] We read “where children are involved…..relationship breakdowns are likely to have an impact on men’s identity as fathers”. But the problem is not “men’s identity as fathers”, an internal issue, but rather the external issue of men’s access to children. It is being permitted to be a father – by the ex-partner, by the courts and by the State - that is actually the issue. This is another example of how a form of words is used to make an exogenous factor seem like a psychological factor, and thus to facilitate its transmogrification into a failing of the man himself, rather than a socially imposed disadvantage.


    [3] The approved narrative regarding the role of men’s stoicism appears repeatedly, for example in this quote,

    “The inability to express distressing emotion has been viewed as a risk factor for suicide and the argument that some forms of masculinity position men as stoical and unwilling to seek help has meant that emotions talk by men has come under scrutiny.”


    But the evidential support offered for this oft-repeated thesis is very weak. Psychologist Steven Pinker has poured scorn on this notion, Ref.[14], referring to the “dogma”…

    “that repressing emotions is bad and expressing them is good - a folk theory with roots in romanticism, Freudian psychoanalysis, and Hollywood, but which is contradicted by a large literature showing that people with greater self-control, particularly those who repress anger rather than “venting,” lead healthier lives: they get better grades, have fewer eating disorders, drink less, have fewer psychosomatic aches and pains, are less depressed, anxious, phobic, and paranoid, have higher self-esteem, are more conscientious, have better relationships with their families, have more stable friendships, are less likely to have sex they regretted, and are less likely to imagine themselves cheating in a monogamous relationship.” Ref.[15] concurs, concluding that traditional masculine ideology is a protective factor, not the reverse.


    In fairness to the authors of Ref.[6], there is much in their discussions which point to other factors, particularly socioeconomic and other exogenous factors. For example, the psychologists, despite their discipline, observe that, “This point (i.e., the significance of socioeconomics) has not been adequately recognised in suicide prevention strategies which tend to be dominated by psychiatric and mental health research.” In this context they ask a reasonable question, “Is it feasible or sensible for the Samaritans to alter their longstanding approach to callers by becoming more adept at helping people think through financial problems as well as emotional problems?”


    [4] As a final example, in the discussion on “masculinities” the claim is made that men’s suicide might be related to the “failure to achieve hegemonic masculinity”. This position on hegemonic masculinity is yet another example of converting exogenous causes into internal causes by verbal legerdemain. Unemployment or separation from partner or children is recast as failure to achieve hegemonic masculinity. The failure to achieve hegemonic masculinity is then held to be the cause of increased suicide risk. But why not simply say that unemployment or separation causes increased suicide risk? Why bring the concept of hegemonic masculinity into the picture at all? I suggest the answer is because it reallocates blame from society back onto the man himself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,027 ✭✭✭H3llR4iser


    Long story short, the issue is that general narrative wants to say that if you're unhappy/depressed/worse, it's your own fault - it's as old as the world, really. You see it everywhere - even on these very forums; "Relationship advice" - usually, the reaction to guys asking about something is "it's your own fault". There is, or at least there was, a private "online dating" forum, I had access to it for a while before losing interest, where the exact same would happen - guy asks why he can't get matches, what follows is not advice but a shower of mockery, accusations about having a bad "attitude" and most amusingly, "advice" about having to entirely changing who you are.

    Heck, on occasion we see it even in this channel, it's so deeply ingrained into our culture that we don't even realize it happens.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭youngblood


    Having lost 2 close friends to suicide, both male, 1 a member here, these narratives put words on the exact thing I would always try and describe which were the root cause of their suicides. Frighteningly accurate.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    Have you got therapy since? How are you now?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    There is a very good forum mentalhealthforum. Net

    Practically every mental illnesses under the sun has a thread.

    Remember life is insane and mental illness is in a way a sane response to the insanity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24 auplant


    Here is why I wouldn't go through with suicide. If you would go through with it, then some horrible person out there gets to live longer than you. Something about that simply bugs me too much. They live on laughing and smiling in the vein of your death.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭thatshowthelightgetsin


    4 of the men in a group I attend have taken their lives in the past 3.5 years. In each case, false allegations were used to remove them from their children's lives and home and they just couldn't go on with the years of court delays, parental alienation, societal shame and effective homelessness. There is, insofar as I can tell, no study of the link between marital breakdown and male suicide in Ireland because, well, everything connected with the family law courts in Ireland is kept highly secretive as is the case with all kangaroo legal systems.

    The story behind those suicide statistics would reflect the gender apartheid legal system in Ireland which fathers face when marital breakdown happens.

    https://hrcak.srce.hr/file/239554



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,862 ✭✭✭iptba


    This isn't specific to suicide but I couldn't think of another thread that it fitted on


    “Men won't CLAM up if you're male-friendly!” A brief guide to supporting men’s mental health.


    Opinion

    Clinical Health and Wellbeing

    Nov 18

    Written By John Barry


    https://www.centreformalepsychology.com/male-psychology-magazine-listings/men-wont-clam-up-if-youre-male-friendly-a-brief-guide-to-supporting-mens-mental-health



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5 Irishguy10


    Kinda shocking to see the comments in here. Thought it would be support.


    What to do when you’re in so much Physical pain and it seems to be permanent? I am angry/sad because of how it happened and how I’ve been treated by professionals. Is suicide ok then or do you still look down on it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭chops1990


    I think the amount of people who have suicidal thoughts or ideation is even greater than anyone suspects. I've had it myself. Comes and goes. On the other hand it's hard to tell if I'm not just being dramatic at those times because I know I'd never do it to myself. Young men glorify death, it's why young men are so easily led into wars.

    Suicide is a permanent solution though, to temporary problems. Even if those problems feel permanent while enduring them.



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