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Once you see people pleading you to do something

135

Comments

  • #62
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Lex Luthor wrote: »
    people who question a jab that has a very short test period with no medium to long term safety data are dangerous?
    The vaccines have been tested and shown to be safe.

    Claiming otherwise is a lie.

    You vaccine deniers have to lie constantly.
    Why is that you think?


  • #63
    Lex Luthor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭Lex Luthor


    King Mob wrote: »

    Nope. Never have. You are just desperate for some kind of point against me.

    It's a very pathetic attempt at misrepresentation.

    Your quoted saying people should get the vaccine

    Unless you have a medical background and can back this up, then you have no business stating this

    BTW, I'm not desperate, I'm just calling you out

    Your pleas are dangerous and should not be allowed on a public forum


  • #64
    Lex Luthor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭Lex Luthor


    King Mob wrote: »
    The vaccines have been tested and shown to be safe.

    Claiming otherwise is a lie.

    You vaccine deniers have to lie constantly.
    Why is that you think?

    Again, another claim that these treatments are safe with no medical background

    How do you know they are safe? Its not possible.

    Its still in an experimental phase to last for another 2 years, so once the study is completed which is estimated for 31 January 2023 and all the data is collected, you are the only person telling lies here

    Check it out for yourself

    https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04368728

    A PHASE 1/2/3, PLACEBO-CONTROLLED, RANDOMIZED, OBSERVER-BLIND, DOSE-FINDING STUDY TO EVALUATE THE SAFETY, TOLERABILITY, IMMUNOGENICITY, AND EFFICACY OF SARS-COV-2 RNA VACCINE CANDIDATES AGAINST COVID-19 IN HEALTHY INDIVIDUALS


  • #65
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    phildub wrote: »
    I didn't say it has been rushed to its detriment,I am.going to wait and see if it has or not.
    Ok. Why do you think that it might have been rushed to it's detrement?
    phildub wrote: »
    Yes it is solely based on how quickly it was.done.
    And this seems pretty silly and ignorant on your part.
    Why did you not look into the development process before coming to this conclusion?

    The actual scientific parts of the development were not rushed.
    What was rushed were the hold ups usually caused by red tape and funding issues.
    This is all pretty extensively documented too.

    A good analogy I heard is that it's the same as the difference between normal post and express delivery.
    You don't expect the package you send via express to be tossed around and treated carelessly any more than the normal post. One just costs more and is prioritised because of it.
    phildub wrote: »
    Are you saying there is absolutely no way there is no long term negative consequences of taking the vaccine?
    The chances of it happening are vanishingly small.
    So far, no one has been able to point out any long term effects from vaccines that only show up years later. All the long term effects that are know and documented show up on the scale of a few months, not years.

    And even then, the chances of ANY serious side effects are thousands of times from all previous vaccines are lower than of DYING from covid.

    So being afraid of the minuscule chance of sides effect after the safety tests that have already been done are not rational.


  • #66
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Lex Luthor wrote: »
    Again, another claim that these treatments are safe with no medical background

    How do you know they are safe? Its not possible.
    What are the harmful effects?
    Provide the study that shows them.


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  • #67
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    phildub wrote: »
    People are having serious allergic reactions
    Only a small percentage of the world's population is actually vaccinated so they don't have the data to back up your claim, not sure how you can back up that claim.
    The vaccine's studies are freely available for you to read.
    If you think they are false or inadequite, why not write a response paper?
    phildub wrote: »
    Again im not advocating against taking it but people shouldn't be made feel bad or stupid for not taking it. Both arguments have valid points but at the end of the day we have autonomy over our bodies for a reason. Telling someone they should take a vaccine when they don't want to does not belong in Ireland
    The folks here have claimed:
    The vaccines will contain nanotechnology tracking chips.
    The vaccines will cause sterility as part of a global depopulation conspiracy.
    The vaccines definitely have side effects that are being covered up.
    The vaccines are the Mark of the Beast described in the bible.
    The vaccines won't work because they are designed not to.
    The vaccines won't work because all vaccines don't work.

    Do you think these are valid points?


  • #68
    Ficheall
    Registered Users Posts: 9,018 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    Are there any other examples that fit the OP/title situation? People pleading with you to do something and you basing your decision to do the opposite on that? I presume the thread wasn't started with just one example in mind.

    That aside, I am surprised at the number of posters who have a research background in Bill Gates, making them more qualified to speak on him than he is to speak on vaccinations.


  • #69
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    phildub wrote: »
    Show me data to back up what ur saying or fcuk off.
    What data would you like?
    For the vaccine's safety?
    Here's a good starting point for you.
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety.html
    phildub wrote: »
    It takes about 10 years for a drug to be fully developed so to say red tape is the difference between a vaccine being developed in 10 gears to under a year then ur talking out your absolute ar5e.
    But you're saying this after admitting that you never bothered to look into the development of the vaccines.
    Which is telling as the types of vaccines being used have been in development for over a decade.
    Similarly, we know the above isn't quite true either as flu vaccines have to be developed yearly to deal with the seasonal flu.
    phildub wrote: »
    I didnt die from covid so im not risking a vaccine.
    But as I've explained, this is irrational.
    The chances of ANY side effect are 1000s of times less likely than the chances of DYING from covid.
    phildub wrote: »
    Your sprouting out a lot of unverified information and presenting it as fact when the actual fact here is that it is way too soon to know much about this vacicne.
    But the information has been verified and endorsed by the vast majority of scientists, experts and medical organisations.


  • #70
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    phildub wrote: »
    I would compare them to your points that are equally unsubstantiated.
    Which points are you referring to?

    That the vaccine's safety has been tested? This is evident and easy to find.

    You're saying my claim is equal to the one's being made by conspiracy theorists?
    phildub wrote: »
    Also link the studies you have read so I can see where you are getting your info.
    Why not go read into the development of the vaccines?
    You are basing your whole stance on the fact you haven't done this and just went with your lazy assumption.
    If you want to read something, read up on that.
    phildub wrote: »
    I dont want to write a response paper I am just not going to take a vaccine
    But why not?
    If the studies are wrong and you can tell they are wrong, why wouldn't you want to point that out to the authorities?


  • #71
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Lex Luthor wrote: »
    Your quoted saying people should get the vaccine

    Unless you have a medical background and can back this up, then you have no business stating this

    You dont need a medical background to echo what people with medical backgrounds are advising. The general advice is to get the vaccine, and that the vaccines have already shown to be remarkably safe. Unlike Covid which in just a short time has shown it can have many unpleasant after-effects.

    Of course there are always going to be a portion of people who don't want to get the vaccine simply because they are "being told to" by an authority figure or experts. Relishing their contrarian stance, "exercising their rights" and all that. Fine, but the general advice remains the same regardless.

    Up to 40% of elderly care home staff in certain countries are not getting the vaccine directly due to disinfo and scaremongering by anti-vaxxers online. These are the types of people who really do need to be getting the vaccine, which is why the anti-vax and the "I'm just concerned about vaccine safety" types are dangerous.


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  • #72
    Lex Luthor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭Lex Luthor


    Even Luke "Professor Almighty" O'Neill has stated that they dont have the safety data yet until they start rolling it out to 100,000's of people

    Stop lads, you're cracking me up here

    Fact is, its an experiment, no need to deny it, its out there in B&W

    Feel free to take part, but I'll pass and I'm sorry if that upsets you all


  • #73
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    phildub wrote: »
    You seem to rely hate that human beings have the right to make their own choices.

    Having a right to choice doesn't automatically mean people are informed enough to make the correct decision, especially when other people's lives are at stake. For example measles has been making a comeback directly because people are making their own choices to swallow misleading information, prompting countries like Germany and Australia is seriously consider passing laws on the matter.

    Personally, I still support voluntary vaccines, but with all the nonsense on social media, etc and how potent it is, there may come a point where certain vaccines in certain countries become mandatory, or punishable for refusal. Why? for the same reason we have seatbelt laws, helmet laws, and hundreds of other basic safety rules and laws. To protect ourselves from ourselves.


  • #74
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    phildub wrote: »
    The link is not a study,
    It links to several studies and summerises them for your convenience.
    phildub wrote: »
    only 6 million Americans have been fully vaccinated so not a hugh percentage of population.
    Ok and?
    Which drugs are tested on millions of people before they are declared safe?

    How many people need to be tested because the vaccine can be declared safe?
    Can you point out any other similar studies being conducted?
    phildub wrote: »
    I think you are irrational show me where the tests have conclusively determined rhatThe chances of ANY side effect are 1000s of times less likely than the chances of DYING from covid.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Vaccine_Injury_Compensation_Program
    The following table shows the awards by main classes of vaccines made to victims in the years 2006-2017. [21] This shows that on average 1.2 awards were made per million applications of vaccines. It also shows that multiple vaccines such as MMR do not have an abnormal award rate.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country
    The death rate from covid is around 1%
    phildub wrote: »
    And il finish off this debate which is going nowhere without studies being conducted by saying that people should get vaccinated if they want to and shouldn't if they dont
    But what if the person doesn't want to be vaccinated because of false or irrational reasons?


  • #75
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    phildub wrote: »
    Never once said that studies were wrong and if they were and I could prove that
    Ok. Then the studies show that the vaccine is safe. Great.
    phildub wrote: »
    they were I still don't have to write a paper about it, my choice.
    Sure. You don't have to.
    Personally, if this were the case for me, I would write that paper so that people aren't harmed by a bad vaccine.

    Which makes your next statment a bit odd...
    phildub wrote: »
    You seem to rely hate that human beings have the right to make their own choices.
    What have I said that leads you to this conclusion?

    Am I not allowed to disagree with people's reasons for not getting vaccines and explain why I believe the reasons are ignorant or irrational?


  • #76
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    King Mob wrote: »
    Ok. Then the studies show that the vaccine is safe. Great.

    Some take this literally to mean 100% safe, which means they can then seize on any vaccine-related death or injury from the past few centuries and hold it up. Most of the anti-vax debate centers on that one semantic caveat.


  • #77
    PhoneMain
    Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭PhoneMain


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Some take this literally to mean 100% safe, which means they can then seize on any vaccine-related death or injury from the past few centuries and hold it up. Most of the anti-vax debate centers on that one semantic caveat.

    Paracetamol isnt 100% safe. Even drinking water isn't 100% safe.


  • #78
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    If conspiracy believers were a country..
    Since June last year, when President John Magufuli declared the country "Covid-19 free", he, along with other top government officials, have mocked the efficacy of masks, doubted if testing works, and teased neighbouring countries which have imposed health measures to curb the virus.

    Mr Magufuli has also warned - without providing any evidence - that Covid-19 vaccines could be harmful and has instead been urging Tanzanians to use steam inhalation and herbal medicines, neither of which have been approved by the World Health Organization (WHO) as treatments.

    It is unclear why the president has expressed such scepticism about the vaccines but he recently said that Tanzanians should not be used as "guinea pigs".

    "If the white man was able to come up with vaccinations, he should have found a vaccination for Aids, cancer and TB by now," said Mr Magufuli, who has often cast himself as standing up to Western imperialism.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-55900680


  • #79
    Lex Luthor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭Lex Luthor


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Vaccine deniers are dangerous people.

    They cause danger to people who cannot get vaccinated for various reasons.

    Selfish ignorant dangerous people

    Have you ever had the flu ?

    I'm guessing you had

    So maybe you have spread the flu "selfishly" to someone at some point in your life and they died from it?

    You see how daft your comments sound now?


  • #80
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Lex Luthor wrote: »
    Have you ever had the flu ?

    I'm guessing you had

    So maybe you have spread the flu "selfishly" to someone at some point in your life and they died from it?

    You see how daft your comments sound now?

    Bad analogy. The flu is a seasonal illness which has been around for eons, people have built immunity, there are vaccines available.

    In complete contrast, Covid is new disease, it's effects weren't fully known (and long term effects still aren't known) there's currently a pandemic, vaccines have only just arrived, it's highly infectious and it's more deadly than flu. A different situation entirely.


  • #81
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Bad analogy. The flu is a seasonal illness which has been around for eons, people have built immunity, there are vaccines available.

    In complete contrast, Covid is new disease, it's effects weren't fully known (and long term effects still aren't known) there's currently a pandemic, vaccines have only just arrived, it's highly infectious and it's more deadly than flu. A different situation entirely.
    What I love is that one minute we're being told that there's no way we could possibly know the long term effects of the vaccine, therefore it's too risky or that it's part of a conspiracy.

    But then the next minute we're being told that covid definitely has no long term effects worth worrying about.
    Usually the evidence for this being "I had it and I'm fine."


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  • #82
    Lex Luthor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭Lex Luthor


    King Mob wrote: »
    What I love is that one minute we're being told that there's no way we could possibly know the long term effects of the vaccine
    Which is true
    King Mob wrote: »
    But then the next minute we're being told that covid definitely has no long term effects worth worrying about.

    not my words :rolleyes:


  • #83
    Lex Luthor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭Lex Luthor


    You take a break from this forum for a month and come back and its the same old record from the same old artists


  • #84
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Vaccine with near perfect safety record: "Don't trust it"

    New disease which has killed millions, spreads like wildlife and has unknown after-affects: "It's just the sniffles, so what a few old people die"


  • #85
    Trigger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,538 ✭✭✭✭Trigger


    Lex Luthor wrote: »
    You take a break from this forum for a month and come back and its the same old record from the same old artists

    Mod: continue with these type of posts and you will be taking another break. Back on topic.


  • #86
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Lex Luthor wrote: »
    Which is true
    But it's not though.
    Lex Luthor wrote: »
    not my words :rolleyes:
    Ok. So why are you more concerned about the long term effects of the vaccine?

    Again, reminder: you are thousands of times more likely to die from covid than you are to get any serious side effect from a vaccine.

    And I'm sorry that you're so upset hearing the same arguments.
    But when you repeat the same old debunked lies, that's kinda what happens.


  • #87
    Lex Luthor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭Lex Luthor


    King Mob wrote: »
    Again, reminder: you are thousands of times more likely to die from covid than you are to get any serious side effect from a vaccine.
    Show the data to prove this theory of yours


  • #88
    Lex Luthor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭Lex Luthor


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Vaccine with near perfect safety record

    Define near perfect safety record, how are you measuring this?


  • #89
    Lex Luthor
    Registered Users Posts: 11,220 ✭✭✭✭Lex Luthor


    King Mob wrote: »
    But it's not though.
    so what are they then if you know them?
    King Mob wrote: »
    Ok. So why are you more concerned about the long term effects of the vaccine?
    How can I be concerned about something which is unknown?


  • #90
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,747 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Lex Luthor wrote: »
    Define near perfect safety record, how are you measuring this?

    I'm not measuring this, the info doesn't come from me. Vaccines are overwhelmingly safe.

    From previous posts, you seem to be far more "concerned" about the vaccine than the disease, so according to you, which do you think is more dangerous, the vaccine or the disease?

    Over 2 million people have died as a result of Covid in the last 10 months. In the next 10 months approximately how many people do you think will die directly from Covid vaccines?

    Just an estimate. 1? 10? 25?


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  • #91
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Lex Luthor wrote: »
    so what are they then if you know them?
    There isn't likely to be any.
    Lex Luthor wrote: »
    How can I be concerned about something which is unknown?
    You tell us. You guy are telling us the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease. Yet you can't substantiate this at all beyond your irrational fear of vaccines and science in general.
    Lex Luthor wrote: »
    Show the data to prove this theory of yours
    Done this several times. I've shown you directly and you ignored the point.
    Not sure why you're pretending otherwise now.


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