Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Rushed Covid 19 vaccine

12467…19

Comments

  • #92
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    According to the CDC there has been a decrease in life expectancy in the US due to suicides and drug overdoses (namely abuse of fentanyl, fentanyl analogs and tramadol) Implicating pharmaceutical companies is like implicating rope producing companies in suicides.
    The primary cause is 'prescribed opiods' (responsible for 2/3rds of all ODs). Along 'direct' after effects of using these products).

    The Pharma industry directly produces and market these 'prescribed opiods' products, with the aim of profit making. It would not be fair to lay the blame on anyone else, if that is your desire, e.g. you can't blame helicopter pilots for this phenomenon, and the sad yearly decline of life expectancy.


  • #93
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Any Covid related vaccine made by Bill Gates will contain some sort of mark or any vaccine endorsed by Gates or any vaccine (partially) funded? which?
    To be clear, if I receive a vaccine approved/endorsed/funded by Bill Gates, I will also be receiving some sort of "mark", correct?
    What does this "mark" do, and what's it's purpose?
    Do you believe the bible prophesized people being "marked" with something in this century, yes or no?
    Sorry, but this word salad makes little sense.
    One of Gates (many interventions) will be in regards to the (huge) issue of 'immunity certification', at/post vaccine. This will evolve by the way of a combined new type of vaccine delivery.

    https://www.sciencealert.com/an-invisible-quantum-dot-tattoo-is-being-suggested-to-id-vaccinated-kids
    https://news.rice.edu/2019/12/18/quantum-dot-tattoos-hold-vaccination-record/
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/invisible-ink-could-reveal-whether-kids-have-been-vaccinated/

    Suggest to read the earlier reply, again:

    The best of class, Gates paid-for solution, to the huge issue of immunity certification (combined with any vaccine, using nano technologies, not injection) is by it's very technical definition a 'mark', in fact it's desbribed here as an embodiment (in and on) the person.

    It is also by it's detailed description, importantly, a unique 'digital identifer of a person', along of course with their medical history stored as digital scanable data point, very similar to a QRCode which many of us will shortly be scanning as a means of entry processing, to physical locations and services.


  • #94
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,743 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Jose Substantial Armada wrote: »
    The primary cause is 'prescribed opiods' (responsible for 2/3rds of all ODs). Along 'direct' after effects of using these products).

    Link for this? the one I am reading from the CDC mentions abuse of opiods
    The Pharma industry directly produces and market these 'prescribed opiods' products,

    Yup, and these drugs have specific uses. Unfortunately people abuse them. Almost any drug can be abused, e.g. sleeping pills.

    Likewise, people use guns/bullets to kill themselves, it doesn't mean gun/ammo makers are responsible or culpable for their deaths, nor does it mean they are profiteering from their deaths.


  • #95
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,743 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Jose Substantial Armada wrote: »
    Sorry, but this word salad makes little sense.

    It makes perfect sense, but I will make the questions simpler

    In a roundabout way you seem to be suggesting that people who receive a Covid vaccine (funded by Bill Gates) will also receive some sort of "mark"

    1. What is this "mark" exactly?

    2. What is it's purpose?


  • #96
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    Link for this? the one I am reading from the CDC mentions abuse of opiods.... Unfortunately people abuse them. Almost any drug can be abused, e.g. sleeping pills.
    This is straying off topic now. The issue relates primarly to the distribution, pressure and even bribes to oversell and oversaturate the market, by Pharna, in order to gain profit. Suggest some reading:
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/02/john-kapoor-opioids-billionaire-founder-guilty-of-bribing-doctors-to-prescribe


  • Advertisement
  • #97
    FutureTeashock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 439 ✭✭FutureTeashock


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    Still waiting on a source for this DNA altering claim.

    Straight from the Devil's lair:

    "It involves the direct introduction into appropriate tissues of a plasmid containing the DNA sequence encoding the antigen(s) against which an immune response is sought, and relies on the in situ production of the target antigen."

    https://www.who.int/biologicals/areas/vaccines/dna/en/

    The DNA is edited to fight the virus, thus altering the DNA.


  • #98
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    Jose Substantial Armada wrote: »
    This is straying off topic now. The issue relates primarly to the distribution, pressure and even bribes to oversell and oversaturate the market, by Pharna, in order to gain profit. Suggest some reading:
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/02/john-kapoor-opioids-billionaire-founder-guilty-of-bribing-doctors-to-prescribe

    4 of them have already settled in relation to a lawsuit that was taken against them.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/21/opioid-makers-drug-industry-trial-cleveland-ohio

    "Four major pharmaceutical companies agreed to a multimillion-dollar payout over the US opioid epidemic on Monday, hours before a landmark federal trial in which they were facing accusations of a conspiracy to profit from addiction and death."

    They've already profited from addicted and death so profiting from a rushed vaccine will be easy money for them especially if they secure immunity from future lawsuits in relation to potential negative side effects from the vaccine they'll be all the way to the bank and it will be taxpayers that foot the bill!


  • #99
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    Dohnjoe wrote: »
    What is this "mark" exactly?
    See above for one example of a mark/embodiment, related to covid and Gates. Sorry but don't have time for hand holding, or drip feeding (repeated explanations) as per above, and now have other matters to attend to.



    btw, There are even better (gates related) patents that relate to Gates/Microsoft, but they are not related to covid, interesting as contextual factors all the same...


  • #100
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,743 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Jose Substantial Armada wrote: »
    This is straying off topic now.

    You brought it up
    The issue relates primarly to the distribution, pressure and even bribes to oversell and oversaturate the market, by Pharna, in order to gain profit. Suggest some reading:
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/02/john-kapoor-opioids-billionaire-founder-guilty-of-bribing-doctors-to-prescribe

    I'm addressing your claim about CDC data for life expectancy in the US. According to the CDC the decrease in expectancy is due to an increase suicide and abuse of opiods (not correct use of opiods)


  • #101
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,743 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Jose Substantial Armada wrote: »
    See above for one example of a mark/embodiment, related to covid and Gates. Sorry but don't have time for hand holding, or drip feeding (repeated explanations) as per above, and now have other matters to attend to.

    This is your conspiracy theory and you tend to make it very hard to understand (quite possibly on purpose)

    Let's simplify

    There is a Covid vaccine available right now, one of the ones funded by Bill Gates, I go to my GP tomorrow, and I get an injection of the new vaccine

    According to you, do I receive anything else? a "mark"?

    If yes, what is that "mark" and what is it's purpose?


  • Advertisement
  • #102
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    FutureTeashock wrote: »
    Straight from the Devil's lair:

    "It involves the direct introduction into appropriate tissues of a plasmid containing the DNA sequence encoding the antigen(s) against which an immune response is sought, and relies on the in situ production of the target antigen."

    https://www.who.int/biologicals/areas/vaccines/dna/en/

    The DNA is edited to fight the virus, thus altering the DNA.

    No it’s not. The vaccine isn’t inserted into the cell nucleus, it simply trains the DNA to fight the virus.

    If that DNA cell were to replicate it would only contain original DNA ergo unaltered.


  • #103
    FutureTeashock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 439 ✭✭FutureTeashock


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    No it’s not. The vaccine isn’t inserted into the cell nucleus, it simply trains the DNA to fight the virus.

    If that DNA cell were to replicate it would only contain original DNA ergo unaltered.

    Go for it so. I'll be giving it the widest possible berth. :eek:


  • #104
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users Posts: 1,984 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    FutureTeashock wrote: »
    Go for it so. I'll be giving it the widest possible berth. :eek:

    Fair enough. Non need to spread lies though.


  • #105
    FutureTeashock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 439 ✭✭FutureTeashock


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    Fair enough. Non need to spread lies though.

    I'm still not convinced by your assertion that the DNA is totally unaltered, but it's your choice. Enjoy.


  • #106
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    Yeah but that is the very point that I was making that person's view is not representative of everyone that does not want to take a vaccine and their reasons or rational for not wanting to take a vaccine will not be the same as everyone else's but, we will all be thrown into the same crazy anti-vaxxer group because it will be the easier option rather than discussing the legitimate reasons of why people do not want to a take a vaccine.
    But what are "legitimate reasons"?

    Here in this thread and forum we've had people say that the virus itself is man made. Is that a legitimate concern?
    We've had people say that Bill Gates controls the WHO and vaccine production. Is that a legitimate concern?
    One poster here believes that the vaccines are part of a plot to inject people with microchips which are the mark of the beast as predicted in the bible. Is that a legitimate concern?

    I think you'd agree that none of those things are and that they are all pretty silly.

    So do you think the people espousing those conspiracy theory beliefs should be posting in this thread or in the "safe space for vaccine sceptics"?

    I've found people with fringe conspiratorial beliefs don't like to disagree publicly with others who hold conspiratorial beliefs counter to their own.
    I think this is because it highlights uncomfortable parallels.


  • #107
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    King Mob wrote: »
    One poster here believes that the vaccines are part of a plot to inject people with microchips which are the mark of the beast as predicted in the bible. Is that a legitimate concern?
    Sorry but this is yet anther falsehood^, a plain lie of misdirection in fact. Curiously from one poster, with 8,000 posts across 10yrs, all mostly in the CT, some sort of mission?

    Anyway, and so to clarify (again, as per previous page), and perhaps x50 times now. The only project of interest (medi-tech, related to covid), that Gates is directly involved with (inc funding thereof), is that of the 'Quantum Dot Tattoo' to act as a Digital Immunity Certification (DigitalID/HealthPassport).

    For the 51st time now, and as clear as possible, this is
    i) not a microchip ii) not injected.

    The links were supplied on the previous page, here they are again as clearly they were not read.

    Patent:
    https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2019018301A1/en
    Description:
    https://www.sciencealert.com/an-invisible-quantum-dot-tattoo-is-being-suggested-to-id-vaccinated-kids
    https://news.rice.edu/2019/12/18/quantum-dot-tattoos-hold-vaccination-record/
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/invisible-ink-could-reveal-whether-kids-have-been-vaccinated/

    Again this simple 'digital identifer' has no direct link to the bible, AFAIK.
    Again this simple 'identifer of the person' (in itself) is not the 'NOTB'. It (could/maybe) however be a prequel of such a concept: WO2020060606 at some future stage, but that really is years away.


  • #108
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Jose Substantial Armada wrote: »
    Sorry but this is yet anther falsehood^, a plain lie of misdirection in fact. Curiously from one poster, with 8,000 posts across 10yrs, all mostly in the CT, some sort of mission?
    Lol. What mission would that be?

    Accusing me of such a thing isn't going to help counter the point I'm making.
    Jose Substantial Armada wrote: »
    For the 51st time now, and as clear as possible, this is
    i) not a microchip ii) not injected.
    The distinction is meaningless to most people.
    It not being a microchip doesn't make your theory less insane.
    Jose Substantial Armada wrote: »
    Again this simple 'digital identifer' has no direct link to the bible, AFAIK.
    Again this simple 'identifer of the person' (in itself) is not the 'NOTB'. It could however be a prequel of such a concept.
    Yup.
    Your belief is based on biblical prophesy about the end times.
    Thanks for confirming.

    So LessOutragePlz, is Jose Substantial Armadas position above illustrative of the beliefs of all those with concerns about the vaccine?
    Do you agree with him and his beliefs?
    Should he be promoting his conspiracy theory along with the valid concerns?


  • #109
    4068ac1elhodqr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,586 ✭✭✭4068ac1elhodqr


    King Mob wrote: »
    L
    It not being a microchip ...
    Yes: there is no microchip, and there is no injection of such a thing, in regards to the Quantum Dot Tattoo. Not sure this keeps getting claimed TBH.


  • #110
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Jose Substantial Armada wrote: »
    Yes: there is no microchip, and there is no injection of such a thing, in regards to the Quantum Dot Tattoo. Not sure this keeps getting claimed TBH.
    Cept for the other part of your conspiracy where you believe they are going to inject people with microchips.
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114584311&postcount=162

    But again, you seem to be missing the point that your claims are bizarre and are part of the silly conspiracy theories that most people with concerns about the vaccine want to be distanced form.

    Your continued attempts to clarify your bizarre theories aren't making them more believable. They're just confirming how silly they are. ANd you are highlighting why legitimate concerns should be actively distanced from bizarre beliefs like yours.
    Because if they aren't distanced, believers like yourself are going to drown out any actual concerns with conspiratorial nonsense.

    What I'm trying to find out is why folks like LessOutragePlz who have more reasonable concerns aren't willing to tell folks like yourself to piss off and cop on.


  • #111
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,743 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Jose Substantial Armada wrote: »

    Anyway, and so to clarify (again, as per previous page), and perhaps x50 times now. The only project of interest (medi-tech, related to covid), that Gates is directly involved with (inc funding thereof), is that of the 'Quantum Dot Tattoo' to act as a Digital Immunity Certification (DigitalID/HealthPassport).

    For the 51st time now, and as clear as possible, this is
    i) not a microchip ii) not injected.

    The links were supplied on the previous page, here they are again as clearly they were not read.

    Patent:
    https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2019018301A1/en
    Description:
    https://www.sciencealert.com/an-invisible-quantum-dot-tattoo-is-being-suggested-to-id-vaccinated-kids
    https://news.rice.edu/2019/12/18/quantum-dot-tattoos-hold-vaccination-record/
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/invisible-ink-could-reveal-whether-kids-have-been-vaccinated/

    Again this simple 'digital identifer' has no direct link to the bible, AFAIK.
    Again this simple 'identifer of the person' (in itself) is not the 'NOTB'. It (could/maybe) however be a prequel of such a concept: WO2020060606 at some future stage, but that really is years away.

    These are simple questions

    Here is the example: let's say there is a Covid vaccine available right now, one of the ones funded by Bill Gates, I go to my GP tomorrow, and I get an injection of the new vaccine

    According to you, do I receive anything else? a "mark"?

    If yes, what is that "mark" and what is it's purpose?

    No links or technical mumbo-jumbo, explain it like you'd explain to a child. Keep it simple.


  • Advertisement
  • #112
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    King Mob wrote: »
    But what are "legitimate reasons"?

    The fact that it is a rushed vaccine in comparison to every other vaccine that has ever been produced.

    It being rushed through the process makes it inherently riskier because it will not spend the same amount of time in development as every other previous vaccine that has been produced.

    I would argue that this is a legitimate reason for not wanting to take a vaccine but obviously people are free to disagree with that and challenge my viewpoint.

    Also I don't claim to speak for anyone else only myself and anyone else's theories on the vaccine are their own and not mine so as I've said previously lumping us all into the same anti-vaxxer group is a cop out and an easy way to avoid a discussion about the legitimate reasons as to why a person wouldn't want to take a vaccine.


  • #113
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    The fact that it is a rushed vaccine in comparison to every other vaccine that has ever been produced.

    It being rushed through the process makes it inherently riskier because it will not spend the same amount of time in development as every other previous vaccine that has been produced.

    I would argue that this is a legitimate reason for not wanting to take a vaccine but obviously people are free to disagree with that and challenge my viewpoint.
    Sure that's not an unreasonable viewpoint.
    But as we've seen on the thread, a lot of people who share your position on vaccines are doing so for unreasonable viewpoints.
    LessOutragePlz wrote: »
    Also I don't claim to speak for anyone else only myself and anyone else's theories on the vaccine are their own and not mine so as I've said previously lumping us all into the same anti-vaxxer group is a cop out and an easy way to avoid a discussion about the legitimate reasons as to why a person wouldn't want to take a vaccine.
    But I'm not lumping you in with anyone.
    I'm saying your reasonable position is going to be drowned out you and you don't seem very willing to address people with silly claims.

    So far we have had two conspiracy theorist who agree with your position. But they also express other beliefs I think you class as ridiculous.

    Do you find those beliefs ridiculous or do you believe they are as legitimate as yours?
    I ask cause you haven't directly stated this.
    Do you want them to be bringing up their ridiculous beliefs in a discussion about the serious concerns about the vaccine.

    I think your current position of "live and let live" and not addressing is going to lead to conspiracy theorists like them lumping you in with their side and result in your concerns being drowned out by claims of Bill Gates trying to implant everyone with the mark of the beast.

    I think that if you were seriously worried about your beliefs, you should be doing more to dispell the ridiculous nonsensical concerns.


  • #114
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    King Mob wrote: »
    Sure that's not an unreasonable viewpoint.
    But as we've seen on the thread, a lot of people who share your position on vaccines are doing so for unreasonable viewpoints.

    But I'm not lumping you in with anyone.
    I'm saying your reasonable position is going to be drowned out you and you don't seem very willing to address people with silly claims.

    So far we have had two conspiracy theorist who agree with your position. But they also express other beliefs I think you class as ridiculous.

    Do you find those beliefs ridiculous or do you believe they are as legitimate as yours?
    I ask cause you haven't directly stated this.
    Do you want them to be bringing up their ridiculous beliefs in a discussion about the serious concerns about the vaccine.

    I think your current position of "live and let live" and not addressing is going to lead to conspiracy theorists like them lumping you in with their side and result in your concerns being drowned out by claims of Bill Gates trying to implant everyone with the mark of the beast.

    I think that if you were seriously worried about your beliefs, you should be doing more to dispell the ridiculous nonsensical concerns.

    I take it I'm on of those conspiracy theorists. If I'm not, then I apologise, but I'll just outline a few concerns I have and why I don't think they should be dismissed as conspiracy theories:

    1. 'Lockstep' in 'Scenarios for the Future of Technology and International Development' (https://www.nommeraadio.ee/meedia/pdf/RRS/Rockefeller%20Foundation.pdf) describes a world that's practically identical to the one we inhabit now.

    2. Event 201 was a simulation of a coronavirus and, while the pandemic simulated differs in a few minor ways, it's eerily similar to the present pandemic.

    3. The UN organised a virtual concert in August during which a choir sang a song that contained the lyrics 'a new world order behind closed doors'. Posters have interpreted this to mean that people are indoors during the pandemic and that therefore it is a new world. I don't think that's what was meant. If that's what they meant then why not 'a new world behind closed doors'?

    4. The WEF will host an event in Davos next year called 'The Great Reset'. The plan is to reset the planet.

    5. While dismissed by several posters, Bill Gates and his wife smiling after saying that the next pandemic would get people's attention is worrying, in my opinion.

    6. Doctors, epidemiologists and scientists have been censored all over the world for going against the accepted orthodoxy. Very worrying, in my opinion.

    7. The possibility of not being able to take part in society unless vaccinated chimes with the biblical 'Mark of the Beast'. One could dismiss it as a coincidence, but it's not unreasonable to suggest that it is the 'Mark of the Beast' come to pass.

    To dismiss all of the above as the rantings of a conspiracy loon is wrong, in my opinion.


  • #115
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dionaibh wrote: »

    To dismiss all of the above as the rantings of a conspiracy loon is wrong, in my opinion.
    Yes. I believe that is all of the type of stuff LessOutragePlz has said he doesn't want his reasonable concerns to be lumped in with.

    Thank you for outlining them.

    LessOutragePlz, do you want your beliefs lumped in with the above claims?
    Do you believe the above claims are worth considering and holding on equal terms to your concerns?
    Dionaibh seems to believe so.


  • #116
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    King Mob wrote: »
    Yes. I believe that is all of the type of stuff LessOutragePlz has said he doesn't want his reasonable concerns to be lumped in with.

    Thank you for outlining them.

    LessOutragePlz, do you want your beliefs lumped in with the above claims?
    Do you believe the above claims are worth considering and holding on equal terms to your concerns?
    Dionaibh seems to believe so.

    I believe that what I mentioned cannot be dismissed out of hand. We're supposed to accept that 'a new world order behind closed doors' actually means 'a new world at home'? Why 'a new world order' and not 'a new world'?

    Lockstep predicts it a tee, save for numbers of deaths and a different virus, but that doesn't matter either?

    And resetting the planet is nothing to worry about either?


  • #117
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Dionaibh wrote: »
    I believe that what I mentioned cannot be dismissed out of hand.
    Unfortunately these silly conspiracy notions can be. THis has been shown in the threads about those topics.
    But they are not the issue being discussed right now.

    The issue is that some people have reasonable, grounded concerns about the vaccines being rushed.
    Your concerns however are vague and a bit ridiculous.

    I'm pointing out that silly conspiracy claims like yours are drowning out the reasonable ones.
    You are demonstrating this very effectively.
    So again, thanks.


  • #118
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    King Mob wrote: »
    Yes. I believe that is all of the type of stuff LessOutragePlz has said he doesn't want his reasonable concerns to be lumped in with.

    Thank you for outlining them.

    LessOutragePlz, do you want your beliefs lumped in with the above claims?
    Do you believe the above claims are worth considering and holding on equal terms to your concerns?
    Dionaibh seems to believe so.

    I really don't see why someone with reasonable concerns has to distance themselves from the crazies. He has outlined his reasonable concerns. He hasn't mentioned anything of this new world order mark of the beast nonsense. Why is that not enough for you?


  • #119
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    I really don't see why someone with reasonable concerns has to distance themselves from the crazies. He has outlined his reasonable concerns. He hasn't mentioned anything of this new world order mark of the beast nonsense. Why is that not enough for you?
    Why not tell the "crazies" that they are crazy?
    Because again, if the "live and let live" thing is held, the silly conspiracy theories are going to drown out the reasonable concerns.
    Those conspiracy theorists are going to claim the support of those people with reasonable concerns.

    And yes, they haven't mentioned anything of the crazy beliefs so far mentioned. But at the same time, they haven't denied them either.

    And again, I'm not lumping them in with anyone. I understand that their concerns aren't based on the silly stuff acculumator's and Dionaibh's are.
    I've been very clear on that.


  • #120
    LLMMLL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,588 ✭✭✭LLMMLL


    King Mob wrote: »
    Why not tell the "crazies" that they are crazy?
    Because again, if the "live and let live" thing is held, the silly conspiracy theories are going to drown out the reasonable concerns.
    Those conspiracy theorists are going to claim the support of those people with reasonable concerns.

    And yes, they haven't mentioned anything of the crazy beliefs so far mentioned. But at the same time, they haven't denied them either.

    And again, I'm not lumping them in with anyone. I understand that their concerns aren't based on the silly stuff acculumator's and Dionaibh's are.
    I've been very clear on that.

    I don't agree about challenging conspiracy theories. I think that legitimizes them. I think if the conspiracy theories were ignored they'd die out. But people argue about them and the conspiracy theory holder gets more emotionally invested in them and believes them even more.

    I also see it as a common debating tactic. Someone disagrees with you but is reasonable so make them distance themselves from a more extreme element on their side Thereby lumping them in with the extreme element.

    I totally get lessoutrages ignoring of this tactic. I wouldn't dignify it with a response either.


  • Advertisement
  • #121
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,226 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    LLMMLL wrote: »
    I don't agree about challenging conspiracy theories. I think that legitimizes them. I think if the conspiracy theories were ignored they'd die out. But people argue about them and the conspiracy theory holder gets more emotionally invested in them and believes them even more.
    But history hasn't born that out as we can see from the persistence of pretty much every other conspiracy theory.
    LLMMLL wrote: »
    I also see it as a common debating tactic. Someone disagrees with you but is reasonable so make them distance themselves from a more extreme element on their side Thereby lumping them in with the extreme element.

    I totally get lessoutrages ignoring of this tactic. I wouldn't dignify it with a response either.
    But I don't disagree with him. I've said several times that his concerns are reasonable. I've said several times that it's clear his concerns are separate from the wacky ones being proposed.

    My point again is that the wacky theories are going to drown out the reasonable concerns.
    Ignoring them, hoping they'll go away and getting huffy when people point at them isn't going to stop that.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement