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15-01-2020, 01:42   #61
$hifty
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What are you trying to say? You wrote a lot of words but actually made no point. It's all over the shop.
Reading comprehension not your strong point, no? As well as the points put forward by the other poster above, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of your average Irish person.

People were delighted they had the foresight to not jump on the property ladder. Homeowners were openly mocked on boards for being stupid enough to buy a gaff. Now, it turns out that buying at that time was a worthwhile investment and the naysayers are blaming the homeowners for being heartless greedy bastards.
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15-01-2020, 08:28   #62
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I still don't understand you point.

If I rent a house I insure the contents.

If I buy a house, I insure the contents and the building. I probably have to as part of the mortgage requirements. Are you saying that the landlord deserves to own the property because he paid for the buildings insurance???

You're renting because it suits you. But then do you not see the folly in a lot of amateur landlords who think that they should be entitled to have a renter or renters pay their mortgage for them? By all means let them invest in what they want. But I think that the conventional general recommendation is not to have more than 10% in property. It's the same thing as putting all your money on Facebook shares. You can do it if you want but don't expect any sympathy if they tank in 10 years just because everyone else was doing it and prices were going up. You have the additional complication that the house brings added headache that the "investor" might not be able to deal with efficiently.


If people are investing and putting up all the capital or perhaps buying equity in a vehicle that will put the money up to develop a property then that has some value to society. But if they are getting a high LTV mortgage from the Bank and just outbidding the local family by 5k on an already built house or apartment then that adds very little.
Why does property have to have some value to soceity? A landlord has a property to rent a tenant wants to rent a property a simple business transaction, supply and demand.

This is a business pure and simple if a person does not think or can't afford rent prices then buy.

Do you think that landlords should have some moral obligation to tenants to charge them what they can pay rather than what the market decides?

Being a landlord is a business pure and simple and every business tries to earn the maximum profits it can.

Seriously it never ceases to amaze me how many people come onto boards wanting landlords who are professional but don't want to pay for it.

It's like people want professional landlords but somebody else has to pay either the landlord with lower rent or society through subsidized rent.
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15-01-2020, 08:40   #63
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I still don't understand you point.

If I rent a house I insure the contents.

If I buy a house, I insure the contents and the building. I probably have to as part of the mortgage requirements. Are you saying that the landlord deserves to own the property because he paid for the buildings insurance???

You're renting because it suits you. But then do you not see the folly in a lot of amateur landlords who think that they should be entitled to have a renter or renters pay their mortgage for them? By all means let them invest in what they want. But I think that the conventional general recommendation is not to have more than 10% in property. It's the same thing as putting all your money on Facebook shares. You can do it if you want but don't expect any sympathy if they tank in 10 years just because everyone else was doing it and prices were going up. You have the additional complication that the house brings added headache that the "investor" might not be able to deal with efficiently.


If people are investing and putting up all the capital or perhaps buying equity in a vehicle that will put the money up to develop a property then that has some value to society. But if they are getting a high LTV mortgage from the Bank and just outbidding the local family by 5k on an already built house or apartment then that adds very little.
It's not at all the same as putting all in FB shares, stocks are far more volatile than property, never mind the fact a stock can go to zero

Even a buy to let is owned debt free, it's a precarious environment right now as the tenant can go rogue without any real sanction, allowing Marxists to dictate policy this past number of years has only hurt decent tenants. The left despise property owners and are prepared to sacrifice the majority of tenants in order to hurt the property owning class

There is about a hundred billion in deposits sitting in banks here, just think how much good that idle capital could do if investors were able to deal with rogue tenants in a swift and efficient manner, most would be content with a circa NET yield of circa 4%, instead it's people like eoin o Broin ( with the backing of the left wing media) who wants to nationalise all property, who are settling the agenda, investors are terrified

Last edited by Mad_maxx; 15-01-2020 at 08:46.
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15-01-2020, 08:50   #64
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Why does property have to have some value to soceity? A landlord has a property to rent a tenant wants to rent a property a simple business transaction, supply and demand.

This is a business pure and simple if a person does not think or can't afford rent prices then buy.

Do you think that landlords should have some moral obligation to tenants to charge them what they can pay rather than what the market decides?

Being a landlord is a business pure and simple and every business tries to earn the maximum profits it can.

Seriously it never ceases to amaze me how many people come onto boards wanting landlords who are professional but don't want to pay for it.

It's like people want professional landlords but somebody else has to pay either the landlord with lower rent or society through subsidized rent.
You have to understand that ideology is often the enemy of reason, the people who are influencing the cluster fcuk policy in this area, the likes of threshold, Peter McVerry, eoin o Broin, Ruth coppinger and the bulk of the media

Those people are ideologically opposed at best to the idea of property investment, they call it rent seeking
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15-01-2020, 09:25   #65
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You have to understand that ideology is often the enemy of reason, the people who are influencing the cluster fcuk policy in this area, the likes of threshold, Peter McVerry, eoin o Broin, Ruth coppinger and the bulk of the media

Those people are ideologically opposed at best to the idea of property investment, they call it rent seeking
Exactly.

The idea that, in cities, anyone who wants a house should have a house is ridiculous and it forms a two tier housing system.

There's many different ways to handle the cost of housing. Unfortunately our government has worked to only make it more expensive and then people can either:
A: Work to get a decent job, then scrimp and save for years then pay off a 35 year mortgage
B: Keep your income low or none, then apply to social housing and get one for essentially free, if certain criteria are met. A fantastic deal in the long term, though tough in the short.

Strange how there's no middle ground.
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15-01-2020, 10:04   #66
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You have to understand that ideology is often the enemy of reason, the people who are influencing the cluster fcuk policy in this area, the likes of threshold, Peter McVerry, eoin o Broin, Ruth coppinger and the bulk of the media

Those people are ideologically opposed at best to the idea of property investment, they call it rent seeking
I was looking at PrimeTime last night and both Sinn Fein and Labour were advocating a dramatic increase in building social housing on state land.

It struck me how we never seem to learn regarding a concentration of social housing and the associated anti social behaviour associated with it.

I fully accept that there is anti social behaviour in private areas but social areas seems to get a bigger share of the issues than private ones (one of the reasons people are reluctant to live in social housing areas).

If a large concentration of social housing is built and unruly/anti social behaviour is not tackled we are storing up a world of problems.
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15-01-2020, 10:08   #67
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I was looking at PrimeTime last night and both Sinn Fein and Labour were advocating a dramatic increase in building social housing on state land.

It struck me how we never seem to learn regarding a concentration of social housing and the associated anti social behaviour associated with it.

I fully accept that there is anti social behaviour in private areas but social areas seems to get a bigger share of the issues than private ones (one of the reasons people are reluctant to live in social housing areas).

If a large concentration of social housing is built and unruly/anti social behaviour is not tackled we are storing up a world of problems.
That's a law enforcement issue
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15-01-2020, 10:32   #68
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Landlords sell, supply goes down, rents go up, housing crisis is exacerbated. The government puts rental caps. Landlords leave, rent goes up The government introduces HAP. Rent goes up.
This is bullshit in fairness. What happens when your average amateur landlord sells up? Do they bulldoze the house into the ground?
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15-01-2020, 10:35   #69
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Originally Posted by $hifty View Post
Reading comprehension not your strong point, no? As well as the points put forward by the other poster above, I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of your average Irish person.

People were delighted they had the foresight to not jump on the property ladder. Homeowners were openly mocked on boards for being stupid enough to buy a gaff. Now, it turns out that buying at that time was a worthwhile investment and the naysayers are blaming the homeowners for being heartless greedy bastards.
I think that the issue with the comprehension is on your part dude.

I don't know what any of that has to do with what I said. Seems like you just wanted an opportunity to interject with some predefined regular incoherent phrases
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15-01-2020, 10:37   #70
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It's not at all the same as putting all in FB shares, stocks are far more volatile than property, never mind the fact a stock can go to zero

Even a buy to let is owned debt free, it's a precarious environment right now as the tenant can go rogue without any real sanction, allowing Marxists to dictate policy this past number of years has only hurt decent tenants. The left despise property owners and are prepared to sacrifice the majority of tenants in order to hurt the property owning class

There is about a hundred billion in deposits sitting in banks here, just think how much good that idle capital could do if investors were able to deal with rogue tenants in a swift and efficient manner, most would be content with a circa NET yield of circa 4%, instead it's people like eoin o Broin ( with the backing of the left wing media) who wants to nationalise all property, who are settling the agenda, investors are terrified

Yes, on your last point. If landlords were able to better deal with problem tenants then things would be better. You should not be surprised if an amateur landlord finds it difficult to do so

And your point about "not being at all like FB shares" gives the impression that you should get proper advice before investing your money. Yes they are different asset classes but you seem to think that it would or should be impossible for the value of a property investment to go to zero. If you actually believe that, I have some luxury houses in Bulgaria that I will sell you off the plans if you are interested?

Last edited by Donald Trump; 15-01-2020 at 10:43.
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15-01-2020, 10:45   #71
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Why does property have to have some value to soceity? A landlord has a property to rent a tenant wants to rent a property a simple business transaction, supply and demand.

This is a business pure and simple if a person does not think or can't afford rent prices then buy.

Do you think that landlords should have some moral obligation to tenants to charge them what they can pay rather than what the market decides?

Being a landlord is a business pure and simple and every business tries to earn the maximum profits it can.

Seriously it never ceases to amaze me how many people come onto boards wanting landlords who are professional but don't want to pay for it.

It's like people want professional landlords but somebody else has to pay either the landlord with lower rent or society through subsidized rent.

That's mad that you wrote all that in response to my post. It has no relevance to anything I said. It is also very very badly written.
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15-01-2020, 10:50   #72
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This is bullshit in fairness. What happens when your average amateur landlord sells up? Do they bulldoze the house into the ground?
Four people might be renting, two might move in post sale

Loss of two places
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15-01-2020, 10:53   #73
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Yes, on your last point. If landlords were able to better deal with problem tenants then things would be better. You should not be surprised if an amateur landlord finds it difficult to do so

And your point about "not being at all like FB shares" gives the impression that you should get proper advice before investing your money. Yes they are different asset classes but you seem to think that it would or should be impossible for the value of a property investment to go to zero. If you actually believe that, I have some luxury houses in Bulgaria that I will sell you off the plans if you are interested?
The laws surrounding eviction are the same whether the owner of the property is a person with a single property or a REIT

Reits don't want to own apartments in athlone or drogheda so the small guy will be needed for a while yet

Bringing up Bulgarian property makes you look like what you accuse others of

A BS merchant
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15-01-2020, 10:57   #74
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This is bullshit in fairness. What happens when your average amateur landlord sells up? Do they bulldoze the house into the ground?
When LLs sell, the property is not being bought by investors for rental purposes. A recent study showed 50k LLs have left the sector since 2013 and the amount of available rental units has significantly decreased. A rudimentary understanding of the rental market should be enough for you to understand that when LLs leave the market and the property is no longer available for rental, that reduces supply at a time when demand increases.

I know you didn’t want to read the links I posted earlier, had you done so you would be more informed about institutional investors buying unfinished developments so rents can be maximised. This only applies to Dublin, less so to other Irish cities and towns where the small/amateur landlords you seem to despise so much, are the only LLs providing accommodation.

Of course the property is not bulldozed, hyperbole rarely makes a good point, but unless another small investor buys that property for rental, it is lost to the rental sector, reducing supply even more.

In relation to your earlier assertion that renters are setting the rental market price, I’m afraid that your opinion goes against logic and every economist/tenant interviewed over the last 5 years. Supply and demand are co-dependent. I would be interested to hear from any tenant who reads this thread, and was able to dictate the rent they pay by offering a lower rate in an area like Dublin where need is greatest and supply lowest.

Last edited by Dav010; 15-01-2020 at 13:16.
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15-01-2020, 11:00   #75
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Seems that there are a lot on amateur landlords on here proving exactly the point as to why they shouldn't be in the market in the first place
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